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Paths of Civilization

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[X] [Main] Study health
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads x2
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads
[X] Change Policy - Offence
 
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I think the most encouraging thing from the recent update was that the doctor created a mental health system that works. Not to mention instead of enshrining this one dude as a seer or prophet and making the society as a whole heed the words of crazed people, we instead get them help and realize people who speak gibberish happen and it's usually because they are sick and not seers.
 
I've had a few quotes directed at me hanging around that I've forgotten to answer for way too long...

BungieONI said:
DragonParadox said:
Would we actually recognize the archaic symbols on the star axe? It's been a long time since then.
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Talk to our resident conlanger @Eri, she can probably answer that for you.

My best guess is we might. This is because we were using Symbols of Crow's aspects, which I imagine would be so important that they do not change very often.
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"They might" seems about right. This depends on a few factors.
First and foremost if my version of the symbols are canon or not (if they aren't, please disregard pretty much everything else I say about this)
Second that we've stayed with a regular stylus in clay and haven't switched to a wedge-stylus. (The difference between proto-cuneiform and regular cuneiform) I've not gotten the impression that we have, but I can't say for certain. If we have switched, then they are likely to recognise the symbol for thunder/lightning. Maaaybe possibly the symbols for horse and endless too, but probably not. If they haven't switched medium of writing, then they will definitely recognise the symbol for endless, since it's basically a circle. You can't get that much simpler. The symbols for thunder/lightning and for horse are also fairly likely to be recognised (though thunder is slightly more likely to change than if we went with a wedge stylus, I'd say) The symbol for power/fist is likely to give them trouble either way, since it's fairly complex and as such more likely to simplify in weird ways.

Basically, the simpler the symbol is and the more easily and quickly they can be drawn, the less likely they are to have changed, barring changes to the writing implements, which cause their own specific changes, like the loss of curves if you switch from a regular stylus to a wedge.

Additionally, if we have shamans or advisers whose job is to look through old records, (perhaps to copy the more relevant bits before we bury them?) they are more likely to recognise them, obviously.

BungieONI said:
Oh also awesome folks of the thread. Have a map of our lands. Does anyone know the specific location of Sacred Forest?
*snip*
Land of the Ymaryn. Hey @Eri? Can you translate that into Old Ymaryn?
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I'll give it my best. It may take some time.
 
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I would actually be more comfortable with a Stability option so we can go full Exterminatus if necessary.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on May 19, 2017 at 3:55 AM, finished with 37105 posts and 38 votes.
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veekie said:
Which is MORE true for the Steppes.

We have a functional strategy for the Lowlands. They form semistable states who war over territory for economic reasons. These states are capable of learning, and have to deal with Stability issues.

By developing fortified settlements and expanding into the lower quality land in their northern stretch, we set up a forward base which is too expensive to take by force if you are motivated by loot, and the soil too poor to desire.
Then we simply wait for any of their disruptions, let the next disease or war break them up, then we grab their abandoned land and fort it up in the name of charity.


...you realize the Steppes are more than 300 times larger than the Lowlands right? All of which are wide open plains favoring Nomads with few natural borders?

Which Nomad Heroes will unify arbitrary numbers of them whenever they arise, and no damage really lasts more than 3 generations before they forget because they lack any institutional memory.
Consider their reaction to taking absolutely devastating losses from fighting us was to go call in even more boyz for the waagh, taking the Steppes is a doomed endeavor without something like the Great Wall to actually hold them during hot periods.
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Could you provide a quote from AN saying that the steppes are 300 times larger please? That number seems like a gross exaggeration.
 
[] [Main] Build Iron Mine
[] [Secondary] Study Health
[] [Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads
[] Change Policy - Offense

Leading plan. It's a bit redundant to have both an offensive policy and a secondary war mission. Unless you guys think that the one extra action will make a huge difference?

I would like to suggest swapping out the war mission for something, anything else. Even if just expand economy. Which happens to be the leading contender... At 4 votes.

Jeez, is there a problem with the tally or are we just all in agreement?
 
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[x] Plan Counterattack
[x] [Main] Build Iron Mine
[x] [Secondary] Study Health
[x] [Secondary] Enforce Law
[x] Change Policy - Offense
 
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New

[X][Main] Build Iron Mine
[X][Secondary] Study Health
[X][Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads
[X] Change Policy - Offense
 
hylas240 said:
Will they fall apart? Or will the TH once again stabilize and grow big enough to start harassing us? Or the TS will attack us in the next 1-3 turns with possible TH assistance (unlikely, but possible)?

It'd be easy to just wait for the factions to weaken each other, but the power balance is significantly lopsided in favor of the TH. The DP aren't a threat to them, the swamp people have great defenses but very low martial...the HK are the only ones that could push against the TH.
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Not nearly as lopsided as you think.
The Xohyssiri were in the Thunder Horse's current position for a long time. Now they are a city state.
The Western Confederacy and the Spirit Talkers were in the Thunder Speakers' current situation for a while, then they broke up entirely

We don't need any party to win. We only need somebody losing and great defense. The area is too large for the Thunder Horse to administrate, which means maintaining Periphery States, which means vulnerability to prestige shocks and stability events.
I agree that the steppes is going to be difficult. My point was that we don't have to take several turns to get them to give us a casus belli, we can just attack when we're ready. Honestly, if the nomads develop siege warfare I might vote for killing off as many nomads as possible in order to get rid of the knowledge. If they don't, then i'd rather we conquer the lowlands, as the most developed civs might snag the siege tech.

On the plus side, if the nomads get the siege tech and use it against us then we'll likely get a bonus to discovering it (or just get it outright).
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Casus belli is irrelevant to conquest however. There's an entire large stretch of Lowlands that's pretty much completely unsettled by any major state. All it takes is the ability to make something of the crappy soil and the ability to hold it.

Meanwhile...the bolded part is straight out impossible, casus belli or not. There's more nomads out there than all of us plus all the lowlanders combined. What the Casus belli IS good for is venting excess Martial and allowing our Marches to perform preemptive pruning.
 
[X][Main] Build Iron Mine
[X][Secondary] Study Health
[X][Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads
[X] Change Policy - Offense
 
Or you could all keep pushing the redundant bandwagon, voting for both the war mission and the offensive policy, without telling me why you think that's a good use of our actions.

Except @Hangwind with his restoration policy. Bad news though friend, no free policy change if it's not a military policy.
 
veekie said:
Not nearly as lopsided as you think.
The Xohyssiri were in the Thunder Horse's current position for a long time. Now they are a city state.
The Western Confederacy and the Spirit Talkers were in the Thunder Speakers' current situation for a while, then they broke up entirely

We don't need any party to win. We only need somebody losing and great defense. The area is too large for the Thunder Horse to administrate, which means maintaining Periphery States, which means vulnerability to prestige shocks and stability events.

Casus belli is irrelevant to conquest however. There's an entire large stretch of Lowlands that's pretty much completely unsettled by any major state. All it takes is the ability to make something of the crappy soil and the ability to hold it.

Meanwhile...the bolded part is straight out impossible, casus belli or not. There's more nomads out there than all of us plus all the lowlanders combined. What the Casus belli IS good for is venting excess Martial and allowing our Marches to perform preemptive pruning.
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The DP never vassalized anyone besides the swamp people. The TH are currently dealing with the swamp people and the DP (who are switching focus to trade), while they haven't really attacked the HK yet IIRC. Basically, the TH will only have to fight against 2 groups (us and the HK) since the DP are now a non-threat and the swamp people lose their strength once they leave their swamp.

Also, aren't the lowlands occupied by unaffiliated settlements too? IIRC the DP were trying to get the villages to side with them (which failed). Also, aren't there groups of herders in the hills between us and the TS? These groups need to be dealt with diplomatically or martially. While we may have iron, we'll still need to keep up our logistics as well as dedicate war missions to defend the settlements...we can't let people camp out around our walled towns and starve them to death (unless the garrisons can deal with enemy raids).

I wasn't advocating removing the nomads, just killing as many as we can to prevent the spread of the siege tech. The reason for killing as many as we could was also because there would be a lot of fleeing people, which we couldn't target specifically.

On an unrelated note, I take it you haven't found a quote from AN depicting the steppes as "300 times larger than the lowlands" ?

Edit: ^ this isn't a jab to make your side less valid....I just realized that this could seem a bit rude.
 
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redzonejoe said:
Or you could all keep pushing the redundant bandwagon, voting for both the war mission and the offensive policy, without telling me why you think that's a good use of our actions.

Except @Hangwind with his restoration policy. Bad news though friend, no free policy change if it's not a military policy.
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Maybe if you actually read the discussion you would realize that we've already talked about it...instead of acting snide.
 
redzonejoe said:
Or you could all keep pushing the redundant bandwagon, voting for both the war mission and the offensive policy, without telling me why you think that's a good use of our actions.

Except @Hangwind with his restoration policy. Bad news though friend, no free policy change if it's not a military policy.
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Actually doubling down here makes sense - symphony makes actions taken in concert more impactful.
 
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[X] [Main] Build Iron Mine
[X] [Secondary] Study Health
[X] [Secondary] Expand Economy
[X] Change Policy - Offense

Because +1 money is worth atm. We broke af.
 
[X][Main] Build Iron Mine
[X][Secondary] Study Health
[X][Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads
[X] Change Policy - Offense
 
[X][Main] Study Health
[X][Secondary] Build Iron Mine
[X][Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads
[X] Change Policy - Offense
 
Guys, I really don't want to go to -1 Stability when we have two Heroic Martial Nomads looking at us. Unless we are willing to go all in to crush this force, we're going to lose this turn, meaning another loss of Stability.
 
Hangwind said:
Guys, I really don't want to go to -1 Stability when we have two Heroic Martial Nomads looking at us. Unless we are willing to go all in to crush this force, we're going to lose this turn, meaning another loss of Stability.
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Us getting Iron weapons for our war missions will be devastatingly huge. It'll likely completely overrun the nomads, if not severely reduce their numbers. Also, when was the last time we lost stability to a war mission going badly?

Edit: Us doing 3 main war missions is going all in.
 
[X][Main] Build Iron Mine
[X][Secondary] Study Health
[X][Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads
[X] Change Policy - Offense
 
[X][Main] Build Iron Mine
[X][Secondary] Study Health
[X][Secondary] War Mission - Northern Nomads
[X] Change Policy - Offense
 
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