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Paths of Civilization

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Carrion Eaters should help us mitigate our marital losses and maybe even our stability but we shouldn't worry about stability until we hit -2 or -3.
 
yeah we're going to get a new trait aren't we;

Not One Inch: (Honorable Death upgrade, synergizes with Divine Stewards, compatabile with CA somehow) The will of the People have been forged in the flames of war and disease to create an implacable force to their enemies.
Gives bonus to defense of territories or otherwise Honorable Death procs.
Not even the kings can stop the people's zeal
 
redzonejoe said:
Guys. Guys. I'm thinking of doing something crazy. @Academia Nut lock the vote before i break consensus! Harmony trait slowing me down, but it's only a matter of time before i take @Lailoken's advice.
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Yeah, unless the thread is actually intending to go all in on actually fighting the Nomads this is just going to end in tears. I don't understand how they honestly expect us to build more fortifications in heavily contested areas with only a single war mission devoted to actually fighting them.
 
Guys, you know me. I love wrath. I'm not against boatmurdering every single one of them and drinking mead from their painted skulls, but not right now. We need to rebuild. We need to bring the Thunder Horses to heel. We need to get iron weapons. We need reserves.

Once we have those and their unity behind a dead chief has shattered, then we can replace the next salt tribute shipment with an icosa-kicked war mission the world will never forget.

Right now we are just going to trigger the leader's honor and get our faces kicked in before the Thunder Horses even show up.
 
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[] Accept utter humiliation (-3 Prestige, chance of loss of the March)

50/50 chance to lose our stallion buddies? No Thank You.

Is he really going to stop? If we give him what he wants we are slotted into his head as "Weaklings" and He will return in short order to finish our consumption. Yeah no thank you good sir.
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on May 16, 2017 at 8:26 PM, finished with 35463 posts and 38 votes.
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[X] Keep Fighting
[X] Resettle large numbers (3 Econ and Martial transferred)

NEVER GONNA GIVE YOU UP

NEVER GONNA LET YOU DOWN

NEVER GONNA RUN AROUND AND DESERT YOOOOOU
 
Seriously guys, we're literally huddling in our city walls! We can't barely adequately supply them with food! And you want to somehow erect more fortifications? What the fuck will that actually achieve besides our workers getting butchered shipping fucking stone across a heavily contested region where raiders can strike without warning.

Sivantic said:
Look at the text for it. It is about increased communication and administration, meaning that we could better support them than we are now. We would have less of a chance to lose them since they would be better able to withstand them.
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But we'd be losing their war actions.

BungieONI said:
Is he really going to stop? If we give him what he wants we are slotted into his head as "Weaklings" and He will return in short order to finish our consumption. Yeah no thank you good sir.
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We have diplo for days. We could afford it. Hell, the Saltern alone pays for the tribute.

Academia Nut said:
Locking vote because lol
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FUCK.
 
Karugus said:
We can't patrol or garrison the entirety of the river, and there's literally nothing stopping them from crossing over the part of the river beyond our frontier. It's a good goal, but massively expanding the front along the entirety of the known Black River is fucking insane as things stand. There's a reason the only major civilization that conquered the steppes from the steppe nomads was Russia. And we don't have anywhere near the conditions to do the same until at least iron working. You're asking for us to strain our logistics, hold an area far larger than the rest of our polity just because it has a somewhat defensible border? That's the only point in it's favor.

Furthermore, the nomads will always be raiding and always be a threat. Once we actually secure and conquer the Lowlands, it's going to be a hell of a lot easier to protect and hold that land than it is steppe that's nowhere near as productive. The fact it eventually brings us into conflict with the HK is immaterial.
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You're asking us to go invade the lowlands, which will have no better defensible border than a river and will strain our logistics in an identical way.

I think that we can watchtower the entirety of the river, especially any notable fords, and that the river's existence will serve as a barrier regardless. It is not larger than the rest of our polity, or at least what I am advocating for - expanding up to the river so we make a triangle, as veekie suggested earlier - is not. Taking over the whole river valley might be, however.

AN said that the lowlands we have been to have the same soil quality as our provinces in the north. A conflict with the HK is extremely material, as it's a whole other group that we'll be going to war with. It will bring us into conflict immediately, as your goal is literally the same as theirs: attract lowland groups into our political sphere and develop their land.

Your plan is either that a) we will mysteriously conquer all of the lowlands and thus not have to deal with anyone or b) that we conquer a small part. If b, we will still have to deal with raids from the TS & TH and, at this point, probably from the XS and HK too. Nomads will be raiding in the north regardless, so them continuing to raid isn't much of a change except that now we're actually doing something -i.e. expanding into their land which, again, is as good as the lowland land you propose that we conquer. Meanwhile, the southern border can be made increasingly secure because we're not already extended into that area to as significant a degree as we are in the north. We only have Redhill down there; in the north we have ST, Stonepen, Northshore, and Blackmouth.
 
Lailoken said:
Guys, you know me. I love wrath. I'm not against boatmurdering every single one of them and drinking mead from their painted skulls, but not right now. We need to rebuild. We need to bring the Thunder Horses to heel. We need to get iron weapons. We need reserves.

Once we have those and their unity behind a dead chief has shattered, then we can replace the next salt tribute shipment with an icosa-kicked war mission the world will never forget.

Right now we are just going to trigger the leader's honor and get our faces kicked in before the Thunder Horses even show up.
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I state that the Thunder Horse are busy. Busy for long enough that we can deal with this. Next turn if we do this

Main War Mission
Sec Change Policy Offense
Sec Settle Bleeding Cliffs.

That gets us 2 for 3 on Iron. Sets our Econ to recovering. And puts pressure on the Khan to keep him busy while we charge our Spirit Bomb.
 
Who knows if things go really south at least we'll have a heroic martial leader for the first time ;)...even if he is a nomad and our people are now slaves to an elite cavalry class.
 
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GUYS THIS IS HOW WE BECOME THE ROMANS!

THEY ACCEPT APPALLING LOSSES. THEY NEVER GAVE UP. THEY WEREN'T PUSSIES.

NOW, WE WILL BECOME THE ROMANS, EXCEPT BEING ALL NICE AND ZERO SLAVES.

Phew.
 
Right, defenses are a no go. The north is already 100% fortified. Every settlement. We need manpower and weapons to man those defenses and sally against raiding parties.
 
pblur said:
Right, defenses are a no go. The north is already 100% fortified. Every settlement. We need manpower and weapons to man those defenses and sally against raiding parties.
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Well, a Kicked War Mission is explicitly "even the women and children grab weapons and charge screaming" so we probably won't have much in the way of manpower issues if we do go for it.
 
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