Paths of Civilization

Kiba · May 13, 2017

Dieb said:
You might be clear that you are screwing the son over, but several other posters do not seem to get that. For example, the people I quoted in the post you quoted.

You know, I have a vague recollection of AN saying something about The Law in practice, but I don't remember any specifics about cheating in that. Do you have a link?

No, but I am pretty sure that it was something to the effect of the Ymaryn commenting on the low crime rate of USA, particularly a town in Missouri?

Abby Normal · May 13, 2017

McLuvin said:
Not really no. She did that to make it easier to get shit done, her son being good at it happened after

Well, yeah, but "what actually happened" and "what shapes perception" are two different things; if they weren't then we wouldn't have the risk of perceived nepotism in the first place

Duesal · May 13, 2017

Umi-san said:
reverse nepotism isn't a positive thing, but nepotism is? lol

Nepotism isn't a positive thing. The thing is that this situation is not nepotism. The King's son is the undisputed best candidate for the job. Her endorsing her son would only be nepotism if he wasn't qualified for it.

McLuvin · May 13, 2017

Umi-san said:
nepotism

Not nepotism.
*sighs reaaaaaallly fucking hard*
Not explaining it again

Umi-san said:
where was the "greatly

he goes down from certain victory to marginal chance.

That's kind of a big deal mate .

McLuvin · May 13, 2017

Abby Normal said:
Well, yeah, but "what actually happened" and "what shapes perception" are two different things; if they weren't then we wouldn't have the risk of perceived nepotism in the first place

It just seemed as though you were accusing her of actually being corrupt.

Just tried to clear that up for you

tenchifew · May 13, 2017

[X] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
[X] Remain quiet (Next king is probably standard)

I really want another heroic admin king.

But it would set a bad precedent.

If he manages to get chosen despite that, I will be happy.
Otherwise - well, he is one king, the system is more important.

BungieONI · May 13, 2017

Kiba said:
No, but I am pretty sure that it was something to the effect of the Ymaryn commenting on the low crime rate of USA, particularly a town in Missouri?

It was the murder rate in Flint Missouri. Around page 1000 if I remember rightly.

Duesal · May 13, 2017

@Umi-san, please, explain to me how this situation is nepotism.

The King's son has proven his competency, and Academia Nut has openly said the only reason the people in power wouldn't elect him is if we don't endorse him. Please explain how endorsing the legitimately most skilled and most qualified candidate is nepotism.

Abby Normal · May 13, 2017

McLuvin said:
It just seemed as though you were accusing her of actually being corrupt.

Just tried to clear that up for you

Ahh, no, this is just me going from "don't really get why they see nepotism here if everyone agrees he's the best..." to "oh, the position he'll be in soon, that is specifically what puts him in the running for king, doesn't always exist. His mom split it off from the main admin chief. I can see people who don't like him using that as an attack on him or even honestly thinking it was corruption, maybe thats why?"

Ghostdevil · May 13, 2017

Duesal said:
The King's son has proven his competency, and Academia Nut has openly said the only reason the people in power wouldn't elect him is if we don't endorse him. Please explain how endorsing the legitimately most skilled and most qualified candidate is nepotism.

Oh I know this
Magic, Meta Magic to be specific. That's the only reason anyone would vote to smear him

McLuvin · May 13, 2017

tenchifew said:
But it would set a bad precedent.

Have you read the debate for the last several pages?

We've discussed he there is already a precedent. Amongst other things. I suggest you read through the last 12 or so pages, might just change your mind

Kiba · May 13, 2017

McLuvin said:
Not nepotism.
*sighs reaaaaaallly fucking hard*
Not explaining it again

he goes down from certain victory to marginal chance.

That's kind of a big deal mate .

My definition of nepotism includes the APPEARANCE of nepotism.

That is why you have people recuse from investigations and such. The Ymaryn did not yet have the concept of recusal in case of POTENTIAL conflict of interest.

Dieb · May 13, 2017

Kiba said:
No, but I am pretty sure that it was something to the effect of the Ymaryn commenting on the low crime rate of USA, particularly a town in Missouri?

Yea, I remember the same thing. Not surprising, read Pinker's "The Better Angel's of our Nature" to hear about how violent the pre-modern world was. That doesn't mean that the People specifically will let murder's walk if they were killing the person their spouse was cheating on, though. They might still, I just don't know.

maximillian · May 13, 2017

[X] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)

[X] Support son (-1 Legitimacy, heir becomes Yehlmyn [Mediocre Martial, Good Diplomacy, Heroic Admin])

tenchifew · May 13, 2017

Duesal said:
@Umi-san, please, explain to me how this situation is nepotism.

The King's son has proven his competency, and Academia Nut has openly said the only reason the people in power wouldn't elect him is if we don't endorse him. Please explain how endorsing the legitimately most skilled and most qualified candidate is nepotism.

This is not about the real situation.

It is about the outside perception of said situation.

The perception in the heads of people is sometimes more important than reality.

Ghostdevil · May 13, 2017

Kiba said:
That is why you have people recuse from investigations and such. The Ymaryn did not yet have the concept of recusal in case of POTENTIAL conflict of interest.

They don't even have a concept of Conflict of Interest otherwise snubbing him wouldn't fuck him over

pbluekan · May 13, 2017

McLuvin said:
And considering that last turn you guys voted to risk civil war that had a higher possibility of occurring to maintain the meritocratic ideal shows a little bit of hypocrisy....

Excuse me? I voted for no such thing.

hylas240 · May 13, 2017

Umi-san said:
reverse nepotism isn't a positive thing, but nepotism is? lol

The first one wasn't disingenuous, for sure. The second one was simultaneously disingenuous and sincere.

where was the "greatly"

People can't run with a broken leg. people can still run with a weighted vest. People can't run with a shot foot; people can run if they're put a hundred yards behind the others.

If it's random there is no malus.

If we don't support him, he has 30-40% chance of being in the running. If we do support him, he becomes king.

The malus is the roll itself.

Also, the result of the roll being random totally negates your argument about him being elected based on merits.

Gavoon · May 13, 2017

Kiba said:
My definition of nepotism includes the APPEARANCE of nepotism.

That is why you have people recuse from investigations and such. The Ymaryn did not yet have the concept of recusal in case of POTENTIAL conflict of interest.

Aren't you worried picking the worse candidate because of politics will also set a precedent? That going for the candidate that is easier rather than the one that is better is the way of the People?

McLuvin · May 13, 2017

Kiba said:
My definition

Your definition.

Not mine

Duesal · May 13, 2017

tenchifew said:
This situation is not about the real situation.

It is about the perception of said situation.

The perception in the heads of people is sometimes more important than reality.

That perception becomes a bit of a moot point when it becomes quickly apparent to the People that holy shit, they have another hypercompetent king.

Any perception of nepotism quickly gets turned around as they admit he was the best guy for the job.

McLuvin · May 13, 2017

pbluekan said:
Excuse me? I voted for no such thing.

Soz, that was more aimed at the people who were doing it, you just happened to be the person I quoted

Umi-san · May 13, 2017

Duesal said:
Nepotism isn't a positive thing. The thing is that this situation is not nepotism. The King's son is the undisputed best candidate for the job. Her endorsing her son would only be nepotism if he wasn't qualified for it.

Academia Nut said:
Still, by his own merits he was within range of becoming the Clerk Chief in a year or two, which would legitimately put him in the running for king...

Where is the undisputed in this?

BungieONI · May 13, 2017

Hey @Academia Nut this is what the Net Tally vote looks like, unfused. (some people seem to have missed your memo)

Vote Tally : Paths of Civilization | Page 1308 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.10.1
[x] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
No. of Votes: 72
[X] Remain quiet (Next king is probably standard)
No. of Votes: 34
[x] Support son (chance of -1 Legitimacy, heir becomes Yehlmyn [Mediocre Martial, Good Diplomacy, Heroic Admin])
No. of Votes: 24
[x] Support son (-1 Legitimacy, heir becomes Yehlmyn [Mediocre Martial, Good Diplomacy, Heroic Admin])
No. of Votes: 13

McLuvin
Crazy7s1
Falconis
godofsmallthings
Golden Eyed King
Lilithium
Manget
Piren'e Colass
Powerofmind
Reader of all
Sightsear
StarkDemise
Varano

[x] Support son (-1 Legitimacy, heir becomes Yehlmyn [Mediocre Martial, Good Diplomacy, Heroic Admin])w
No. of Votes: 1

BlueFlamingWings

Total No. of Voters: 76

And this is what it looks like fused.

Vote Tally : Paths of Civilization | Page 1308 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.10.1
[x] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
No. of Votes: 72
[x] Support son (chance of -1 Legitimacy, heir becomes Yehlmyn [Mediocre Martial, Good Diplomacy, Heroic Admin])
No. of Votes: 38
[X] Remain quiet (Next king is probably standard)
No. of Votes: 34
Total No. of Voters: 76

Is it okay to fuse the votes for support him like this?

tenchifew · May 13, 2017

Duesal said:
That perception becomes a bit of a moot point when it becomes quickly apparent to the People that holy shit, they have another hypercompetent king.

-wiggles hand-

Will far away provinces notice?

And the local chiefs using this as a precedent is bad, Since of course their own children are all just competent and best for the job!

Paths of Civilization

High Clerk of the Ymaryn

Seven gremlins in a trench coat

High Clerk of the Ymaryn

The Devil of Ghosts

Civilised Sheep

The Devil of Ghosts

Somethin's Fucky ...

Genuine Gangplank

Procrastinating.

Seven gremlins in a trench coat