It's likely we'll establish colonies all over the black sea.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
It's likely we'll establish colonies all over the black sea.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
... You mean the SHP?
- Location
- Austria
We can pull the Russia and colonise the steppes though.
Though unlike with the colonisation of New World, Russia colonising steppes can be viewed as self-defense, so it's a bit different.
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
*Points to the stallion tribes*
They seems to be city-states. So, instead of colonizing the area directly, we'll just diploannex them one by one.
Land connections rather than sea connections imply pretty different cultural pressures, yeah.
- Location
- his hidden lair
Yeah Andres, you're not doing yourself any favors here. Peace can be useful, war can be useful. The assumption that warfare is intrinsically bad, or even that it's generally too painful- is a modern one that's arisen over how destructive industrial warfare is.
Simply put, for all the fighting going on- humans killing each other is still a fairly laughable percentage of the death-toll unless someone's actively genociding and we haven't seen that at all besides the Spirit Talkers.
But furthermore, the idea that military innovations are always relegated to the military is hilariously off base. Siege-craft promotes engineering, massed warfare promotes logistical technologies, warfare in general promotes communication technology, all while exposing us to the tech the other party has.
You seem to think that warfare inherently means total war, or that it involves razing settlements. That's just not how war is being fought right now, and if the thread actually had the wherewithal to do it securing some of the Dead Priest tributaries would not magically make us bad guys and would give us access to the fertile floodplains we could use to generate a massive food surplus. This surplus would further support all those lovely 'pacifistic' endeavors the thread has been championing- literacy, art, tech, infrastructure, a True City, etc. I can't take you or the pacifist crowd seriously when they're singing 'War! What is it good for?!' in the fucking Neolithic age.
I mean the bit of impassable (to us, at least) mountains that separate SHP from HK.
I am mostly thinking from the perspective of "better have it and not need it, rather than not have it and not need it."
I don't really care about sticking our dicks into the lowlander clusterfuck, but I think we would be overconfident to not work on any defensive measures.
Someday, someone is going to gobble up the lowland and create an empire.
- Location
- Australia
They cost a Secondary action at minimum to maintain. That to me is what I consider to be intrinsically bad. There have been times in our civilisation where being locked into it had almost resulted in serious fractures in our civilisation because we didn't have a full amount of actions to deal with the problems we were facing. Examples: the Blight, chief corruption during DP war, tax reform.
War has always been bad for us. The only time we "profited" from war was when we gained the Stallion Tribes. Even that was a very mixed bag, as its primary advantage was ensuring we wouldn't have to go to war. The Stallion movement was also a drain on our Stability during a time when we really needed it.
My reasons for disliking war and wanting to stay out of it are valid. I do not appreciate not being taken seriously for my beliefs when I have good reasons for having them.
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- Location
- Austria
It would also generate hilarious deadlock of violence, and we do need to integrate our 3 new provinces and the March before going into the lowlands.
War is bad for us, yes, but so is not having the military force to end it within one turn, and so is burying our heads into the sand.
I am basing my assumption on not being able to avoid warfare. Some of the actions we take might invoke a war(because other polities are dicks), if the hivemind choose so.
The steppes and the southern coasts seem a lot more attractive place to colonize TBH.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Wait, what? Our March seems to fairly regularly wipe out the majority of the male population of tribes...Cwriid literally came to prominence by doing our normal military strategy so we'll that a bunch of tribes bereft of men swore fealty to him
- Location
- Austria
> colonise steppes
That's arguably even worse, because steppes do not even have floodplains.
Like, the reason nomads are nomadic is to gather the naturally more sparse resources of the land more efficiently. So, steppes are kinda...not really productive, not defensible and are infested with nomads. Worst of all worlds...at least it's not tundra.
Which is why I am permanently annoyed by Stallions. Along with them making us culturally diverse and not in a good way.
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
It is a goddamn good thing we can terraform, otherwise they'd be even more SoL.
The place don't have polities to deal with. As long as the nomads stay disunited, they can be dealt with.
Our strategy seems to be to settle lands that nobody wants.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
I figure those r claimed by both parties tbh. Depends how thick they are, really.
- Location
- Austria
Hm. Yes, forests do eventually generate better soil, I guess? OTOH, they tie up water...how feasible foresting the steppe even is?
inb4 we settle the sea
- Location
- his hidden lair
Except they become increasingly less valid. The Stallions, whatever you want to say- have been an immense boon for us. And as for using an action? lol. We have around 5 Main actions considering our provinces can do war actions. Spending a main fighting a war is a relatively trivial expense compared to back then when we didn't even have a provincial action system.
So yes, I can't take you seriously when you don't recognize the immense differences any war we fight would have compared to then.
Not even necessarily, we have an alliance with the HK. Between us, them, and the TH- the DP have far too many fronts they need to cover to contest us feasibly. Frankly, barring grabbing some centralization+throwing an aqueduct the North's way, this is probably one of the best opportunities we'll have to secure a section of the Lowlands.
Seriously, I know the Lowlands are the memetic meatgrinder, but it's possible to get a decisive win there, especially if we're not going into this alone.
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Forests bind up water, but also preserve it's availability. Basically you won't see a great deal of 'free' water, but forests make rainfall more predictable overall, and acts as giant water pumps carrying humidity from coastal areas inland.
It's how we learned to make an impression on the Nomads. Kill the majority of their male population, take all their women as wives and you've established a single generation of peace! We're fighting against annual raiders. Our war goal is to make them stop. They refuse to stop as long as raids are profitable(because you need more walls to make them unprofitable), so we kill them.
It's not the norm for the lowlands however. There they are fighting for authority and allegiance, as well as to follow up on grudges(turns out passing Eye for an Eye down into the lowlands long ago might not be such a great idea...). The people in the areas fought over are the primary resources being contested, so damaging the goods is counterproductive.
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- Location
- Austria
Alliances do not really last, especially since HK were prone to violent regime changes so far. And they are far more eager to claim the lowlands for themselves than they are to help us claim it - they are not NPCs which will bleed for you and win your wars.
And since we've got whooping 3 new provinces, we need to recenter ourselves first, else some *other* provinces will start feeling neglected. More trails, more boats, forests, watchtowers on Southshore because Southern Metal Workers probably aren't a peaceful lot, same in EH province just in case...the biggest advantage we have is continuity and slowly growing, explosive growth rarely lasts.
Like, seriously, growing too fast will mean we'll start facing much more serious crises than this one (which is not even a crisis yet, just a headache), so we better take some time to make some defences and cultural upgrades.
Also, we have to somehow spend Mysticism, I guess?
We basically don't. But we DO need to be able to defend our settlements along the border with minimal action investment. Currently we have a lot of vulnerable raid points. Southshore borders a polity that can raid us eventually. Eastern Hills is exposed to the clusterfuck once they start back up. Black River is wide open to raiders once they recover from being awed by salt. Northshore and Stonepen are only lightly fortified.
Really, the only way to fortify our perimeter decently would pretty much be to switch to defense policy while spamming Main Forests, but we need to tame the March first as well.
Really, the only way to fortify our perimeter decently would pretty much be to switch to defense policy while spamming Main Forests, but we need to tame the March first as well.
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- Location
- Austria