- Location
- Philippines
Wasn't the reason why the YS lost steam was due to them being placated by us meeting them half way?
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
Further speculation. We don't have word of god on that, and there are multiple other possibilities better supported by word of god (like the fact we sent military aid to them.)
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
I was one of very few people who bothered to speculate on what potential penalties AN could apply for high stability, yes. Most people dismissed them as irrelevant or so marginal as to be non-factors.
I also noted that position meant very little to the average voter. I do indeed admit that I always had other priorities than stability, because stability was generally fine, while other main action potentials were often not fine. Whether or not I was part of a number of people arguing against stability mains is basically meaningless, because as often as not, it wasn't my non-stability priority that won the vote in the end.
I'm delusional, but you're the one arguing that I single-handedly caused the thread to only have 1 stability going into that mid-turn? The fuck am I supposed to be, the sometimes-Illuminati that can only control one opinion?
No, they wanted to go farther, but the majority was satisfied with the new changes, so they could not do a thing.
"While certainly not favoured, the admission that the kings had made a mistake and the massive simplification of the systems, especially now that the law was so much more accessible and there were more shamans around to look out for people, took the wind from Patryn's sails. While the family would probably continue to agitate for changes yet, the majority of their supporters outside of their immediate circle of influence just wanted the situation fixed. There were obvious teething problems from having to get the laws about taxes changed and further confusion, but the flat quotas were so much easier for the People to understand and grapple with so those problems smoothed out quickly."
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
I'm not interested in integrating March. The point of their existence is to march against the northern nomads, which is done exceptionally.
And if we want to reduce the amount of drift away, then we need to ensure our stability and economy are good; as that shows people live better under our care. Thus ensuring those uncomfortable in March migrate to us while unhappy people move to March.
This system turns downside into upside without us lifting more than a finger. So i can't see why we want to break it.
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pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
Which... has what to do high stability taking the wind out of their sails? We LOST stability in that choice, not gained it.
- Location
- Philippines
I think the problem now is that most of the benefits are being concentrated at the southern provinces. What our new hero should do is better spread out the wealth a bit a side from making new trails maybe we should start building infrastructure projects on some of the northern provinces show them some love you know?
Exactly we met them half way i.e make the tax system simpler as such the majority were placated and the leaders were reduced to just grumbling about the problems.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Tbh, this does not match what I recall. I recall it being said we could use it at 0 if we were simultaneously taking actions that would bring it down. It is described as having "Max Stability: 0 or Legitimacy, whichever is lower" which would imply that all it can do is restore stability to 0. For a Main action intended to bring us up from (possibly) -1, this seems like a waste. GS might cost more econ but would bring us 1 stability higher.
If you can find a single interpretation quote stating it both can be used at 0 and bring us above 0, however, I would be convinced.
'lel' is totally just "lol," said in a different way. It tends to be more sarcastic in usage.
He said that helped but didn't do much, cus most of the YS weren't actually in the March.
It was mostly due to the crisis ending, basically. With that said, I am 100% on the "let's keep stability high" train. Stability keeps our nation chill, diminishes ill effects, and makes the Hero look better.
Think about how much better it would look if the new Hero, upon election, builds a trail to the home of her main rival.
Edit: R.e. "Spread the love"
Main - New Trails?
Change Policy: Expansion
Extended Project: Aqueduct - Stonepen?
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No, you are only, just like veekie and a couple of others, one of the most influential voters here.
You are also a good orator.
What you are saying matters, and you were successful to convince enough voters to your point of view about stability that for a time any vote to go above stability 1 basically did not have a chance.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
Well, the Saltern was in the north, to be fair.
- Location
- Philippines
Um no it was basically their leader giving a "Your plan sucks and we are fucking sick that you are wasting resources trying to make it not suck!" speech and us admitting that yes it was too complicated so we simplified it hell we even got the option to extend just a liiiiitle bit more thus ending the crisis on a compramise.
We still had enough overall stability that people were satisfied.
Had we gotten negative stability after the choice, the story would not have ended here.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
Unfortunately, AN never answered all the questions about it. I can get you a quote that it can take us above 0, but my only evidence for it being possible at zero is that is was listed as available the whole time we were at 0, but was crossed out at 1.
My personal plan assuming that the current bandwagon wins:
Turn 1: {M} New Province (for an extra action every turn) + {M} Grand Dam
Turn 2: {M} New Trails + {S} Trade Mission/Salt Gift + {S} Change Policy - Expansion
Turn 3: {M} New Trails + {S} Trade Mission/Salt Gift + {S} Trade Mission
Turn 4: {M} Study Metal + {S} Study Health + {S} Study Forest
If the New Trails wins, swap one of the Trails with either a RoO or a GS if we can't. RoO is based on admin rolls though, so we should be almost certain to get the +1 and have a high chance of hitting +2 without needing to pay any econ at all.
Obviously the T2+ is likely to be forced to change, but that's the general idea. We rush out one last megaproject while we're still on that policy since it always costs us to switch off of Megaproject Support (unless war is declared upon us). As such we're not likely to be back on Megaproject Support and its associated symphony bonus for a long time. It's a very admin-rolls dependent task, which works great with a heroic level admin score. We should be almost certain to finish the dam in a single turn thanks to that bonus.
After that we get a mix of admin and diplo, in this case by going admin with province actions and diplo with our manual ones. The reason for this is that afterwards (T4 here), we'll want to switch our manual actions to progress ones, and we'll want the Expansion policy to feed us econ and mysticism to be able to afford them.
Turn 1: {M} New Province (for an extra action every turn) + {M} Grand Dam
Turn 2: {M} New Trails + {S} Trade Mission/Salt Gift + {S} Change Policy - Expansion
Turn 3: {M} New Trails + {S} Trade Mission/Salt Gift + {S} Trade Mission
Turn 4: {M} Study Metal + {S} Study Health + {S} Study Forest
If the New Trails wins, swap one of the Trails with either a RoO or a GS if we can't. RoO is based on admin rolls though, so we should be almost certain to get the +1 and have a high chance of hitting +2 without needing to pay any econ at all.
Obviously the T2+ is likely to be forced to change, but that's the general idea. We rush out one last megaproject while we're still on that policy since it always costs us to switch off of Megaproject Support (unless war is declared upon us). As such we're not likely to be back on Megaproject Support and its associated symphony bonus for a long time. It's a very admin-rolls dependent task, which works great with a heroic level admin score. We should be almost certain to finish the dam in a single turn thanks to that bonus.
After that we get a mix of admin and diplo, in this case by going admin with province actions and diplo with our manual ones. The reason for this is that afterwards (T4 here), we'll want to switch our manual actions to progress ones, and we'll want the Expansion policy to feed us econ and mysticism to be able to afford them.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
If we'd simplified it but the tax crisis continued, they would have kept complaining.
I would appreciate it if you would provide the quote that it can take us above 0, if it's not too much effort.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
That's... yet more ungrounded speculation. Three layers of unsupported speculation on top of each other isn't a great argument.
In fact, what ended the crisis was simplifying the tax codes to something everyone could live with. Stability was only stated to be a condition of avoiding hard choices. We did not avoid them, but the choices were VERY clear that they would end the crisis. While you can hypothesize that they wouldn't have been available at lower stability, that's just more speculation without a word of god statement to that effect.
The dam will do jack and shit for our northern provinces.
We're not doing it.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
I'm glad to hear that you speak for all of us.
- Location
- Philippines
We should build the Trails next turn a long with the new settlement then start on a mega project
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Doing so makes us shift out of then back into a megaproject policy... unless @Academia Nut says that we can choose to stay in the current Policy rather than switching?
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
The first sentence with the phrase you bolded to go with a second sentence specifically notes that A. the simplification mattered a great deal, B. the law made things easier, and C. there were more shamans to help deal with it in general. Those specifically were noted to take the wind from Patryn's sails, as they were in the same sentence, and referred to. Stability and any analogue of it is actually very specifically never mentioned in the entire statement.
I can agree with that, but I'll also note that I tended never to argue against stability, because stability never had enough traction to be a contender for the winning vote without me even opening my mouth. There were, IIRC, one or two times I did argue to just 'do a fucking festival already and be done with it,' but again, abject horror at the idea of removing the action from our lists pretty much won out every time there.
It seriously wasn't me. I can't stress enough that while I fully agree that I've got pull, it's generally with people who prefer ridiculous nonsense like double-dam double kick turns. My position against stability stopped being my position against stability when we got our first deliberate study actions and LoO. Any time I argued against stab after LoO was basically because we had even bigger problems than having 1-0 stab on a refugee trigger.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
I'm making the assumption it still holds for Law.
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- Location
- his hidden lair
I have to say, the rabid anti-sexism is something that worries me more than anything else in terms of the voter base. It's lead to a lot of people denigrating and dehumanizing the Stallions-who are our people and at least try to fit into the system. And it's promoted a really toxic view- as far as I'm concerned- sexism is not and never will be a hill I feel inclined to die on in the fucking chalcolithic era. We have a benevolent, kind, just, and tolerant nation where even if women are being discriminated against they'll still have actual codified legal protection and a better life than they'd have pretty much anywhere else. That's not to say promoting gender equality is bad, but it's not worth pushing to civil war like some people seem to be willing. We have to accept we don't necessarily have total control how our culture develops, and that every culture is going to have some ugly blind spots.
I say this now, because the tax reform proved just how stubborn SV could be and that we as a whole are perfectly willing to demonize any major internal dissent.
I say this now, because the tax reform proved just how stubborn SV could be and that we as a whole are perfectly willing to demonize any major internal dissent.
So? We can wait a single turn to deal with the north. They're getting annoyed but it's not like they're going to go to civil war over it yet or anything. We need to deal with it soon, but not "It must be done next turn or else" soon.
We can, but then we waste another action once we finish that megaproject to switch off of the policy. We lose at least 1 action every turn we're on Megaproject Support and not doing a megaproject since The Law can't double anything and Symphony probably isn't very happy either.