So uh, anyone taking care of informing the Grand Sacrifice voters of the New Trails being confirmed to be effective on bringing the Northern provinces in from their current stance? We just need 10 or so to change over, and we are not taking large refugee amounts, so we won't need it as badly. Worst case it only enables Restore Order(which is important since without the Baby Boom we can't afford to burn Economy like that anymore).
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
What part of 'we're in the chalcolithic' did you not get? Sexist structures are normal. They're still less sexist than most of our neighbors. Bringing them in where we can influence them will allow us to evolve their values as well.
As a reminder, our goal can't be to eliminate sexism. That's not feasible. It's not feasible now, and it's certainly not feasible in a world where that isn't even a CONCEPT yet. We're aiming to limit it; that's it. And bringing our people closer together is the BEST way to do that. With the minor side benefit of avoiding an eventual civil war.
And in the end, Family First is remarkably close to communal values. It doesn't take a big step for our people to go 'but really, our family is bigger than blood'. I'm pretty confident that's a possible evolution direction, since it happens in real life (That was basically the entire point of the parable of the Good Samaritan, for instance).
It would. Currently corruption (in the vein of nepotism) is relatively common but generally accepted as a transgression. If we get a value that it would become expected...
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
Good point veekie. Strategic voting time.
[X] Random Admin tech upgrade
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] New Trails (-1 Econ, +1 Diplo, +1 Centralization, other effects)
[X] Take in some (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] Random Admin tech upgrade
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] New Trails (-1 Econ, +1 Diplo, +1 Centralization, other effects)
[X] Take in some (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
Actually from everything that AN has said, people are pretty happy with it. It means that the majority of people don't need to half-exile in those provinces for example.
The swaperoo of assignment so preferred people get the bonuses of high production is recognized as a transgression. Nepotism only rarely makes headlines at this point. It's normal in the non-corrupt provinces.
You're very clearly not even aiming to do that.
I still think that starting the rule of a new queen at possible 0 stability is a mistake.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
Clarify please?
Given that I just stated that's my aim, you're directly saying that I'm misrepresenting my intentions. Extraordinary claims and all that.
Edit: Swapped lying to the more specific 'misrepresenting my intentions.'
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They are happy because the current level is sustainable but with Family First we would get multi-generational power-blocks fully outside official channels.. feuds, alliances, backstabbing, all in a system not designed for it.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
That was in response to someone saying it's currently viewed as a transgression. It's not.
I'll grant the long term consequences would be that if we didn't manage anything from here. But we'll have better control in the future with a unified people.
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
Inserted tally
No, I just think you're delusional.
Your premises - that "family first" will reinforce rather than sabotage our already existing communal values, that reintegrating the March on their terms rather than ours will reinforce our traits rather than theirs, not only fly in the face of logic, they're also contradicted by the explicit consequences that Academia Nut told us would have come about from electing a March king when we've previously had the option.
[X] Random Construction tech upgrade
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] New Trails (-1 Econ, +1 Diplo, +1 Centralization, other effects)
[X] Take in some (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] New Trails (-1 Econ, +1 Diplo, +1 Centralization, other effects)
[X] Take in some (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
That's YOUR position. My position is that, yes, they arise organically, and need to be stomped out before they get entrenched.
Sexism is a fucking weed that we need to be VERY careful around, lest it start choking us out.
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- Location
- Australia
Wouldn't it be better to do the New Trails next turn instead of now? If we do Grand Sacrifice now, we will have a Stability buffer in case anything unexpected happens next turn, the new trails will be built while everything is stable, and it lets the trails be built under the purview of a Heroic Administrator/Diplomat. We're also planning to do a new settlement next turn, so the new trails will connect to them as well as the nomads.
[X] Random Admin tech upgrade
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] New Trails (-1 Econ, +1 Diplo, +1 Centralization, other effects)
[X] Take in some (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)[/QUOTE]
I'm really hoping the Admin Tech is something that allows The People to lower Centralization by sending in experts to handle things locally. Luck check basically. Also, the inability to lower Centralization means trails never get built... its annoying and problem generating.
Matched 'New Trails' actions with the Stallions? That move is rank with synergy and frankly Grand Offering is a panic button... Combine that with the metal fear and it sends a horrible message. Hitting the panic button at positive stability tells the populous that things have gone to hell and the spirits need bribes right the hell now.
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] New Trails (-1 Econ, +1 Diplo, +1 Centralization, other effects)
[X] Take in some (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)[/QUOTE]
I'm really hoping the Admin Tech is something that allows The People to lower Centralization by sending in experts to handle things locally. Luck check basically. Also, the inability to lower Centralization means trails never get built... its annoying and problem generating.
Matched 'New Trails' actions with the Stallions? That move is rank with synergy and frankly Grand Offering is a panic button... Combine that with the metal fear and it sends a horrible message. Hitting the panic button at positive stability tells the populous that things have gone to hell and the spirits need bribes right the hell now.
To make my own stance clear:
There is nothing wrong with voting for Attrikwyn. His stats are damn impressive, and while he's wrong about Magwyna's accomplishments being insignificant, he's up in the north where they aren't happening. He's also probably coming from a culture where women are far less outspoken, so it's not shocking he sees her charm as 'seductive'- chances are her behavior is beyond the pale by Stallion Tribe standards. And, let's face it, while we know that the current health crisis has nothing to do with metal, most people believe 'helped open mine= helped create plague'.
So Magwyna isn't going to be a popular choice anyway, and the Stallion Tribes are likely going to feel snubbed over having an undeniably great and exceedingly competent candidate for High Chief be overlooked to put a southerner who's under a cloud of suspicion for starting a plague in office. It looks a lot to them like southerners won't elect a Stallion Tribe chief to become high chief no matter how bad the alternative is, just because he's Stallion Tribe.
Yeah, if we're gonna do this, we better be ready to placate the Stallion Tribes in some other way this turn or the next. It isn't a crisis yet, and I honestly think they would be more likely to split off than begin a civil war, but by their lights we've shown a lot of disrespect and this is another bitter pill.
That said, I really want another big female exemplar, and heroic in Admin and Diplomacy is hard to turn down. I'm going for the bait. But I do discourage the idea that Attrikwyn is some kind of barbaric misogynist just because he's Stallion Tribe and dislikes Magwyna.
There is nothing wrong with voting for Attrikwyn. His stats are damn impressive, and while he's wrong about Magwyna's accomplishments being insignificant, he's up in the north where they aren't happening. He's also probably coming from a culture where women are far less outspoken, so it's not shocking he sees her charm as 'seductive'- chances are her behavior is beyond the pale by Stallion Tribe standards. And, let's face it, while we know that the current health crisis has nothing to do with metal, most people believe 'helped open mine= helped create plague'.
So Magwyna isn't going to be a popular choice anyway, and the Stallion Tribes are likely going to feel snubbed over having an undeniably great and exceedingly competent candidate for High Chief be overlooked to put a southerner who's under a cloud of suspicion for starting a plague in office. It looks a lot to them like southerners won't elect a Stallion Tribe chief to become high chief no matter how bad the alternative is, just because he's Stallion Tribe.
Yeah, if we're gonna do this, we better be ready to placate the Stallion Tribes in some other way this turn or the next. It isn't a crisis yet, and I honestly think they would be more likely to split off than begin a civil war, but by their lights we've shown a lot of disrespect and this is another bitter pill.
That said, I really want another big female exemplar, and heroic in Admin and Diplomacy is hard to turn down. I'm going for the bait. But I do discourage the idea that Attrikwyn is some kind of barbaric misogynist just because he's Stallion Tribe and dislikes Magwyna.
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pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
That's not what I'm saying though. Family first can eventually support our community values (though it won't intially.) It's not going to be a permanent malus. On the other hand, the danger from family first isn't this generation either. Hereditary ownership would actually short-term fix a lot of the corruption, by creating non-chief power blocks. The problem is that eventually those non-chief power blocks become too strong.
We gain a good position of social control, a policy with fine short-term consequences, and time to change and fix things. It's not all bad.
Also, for clarification, my claim is that I would be willing to take Family First (a negative trait) in order to absorb the march, because that puts us in a position to spread ValleyHome ideals to them more easily, and avoids an eventual civil war.
Would we have more control? With even the leaders holding the values who would we have to even understand that a shift away from Family first is even possible, never mind desirable
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
Oh, I cost us the tax reform? You fail to recall that we had little choice to raise stability prior as we were in the middle of yet another nomad war, and we went from 1 to -2 due to taking the opportunity vote for a tax reform up to 11, entirely against most reasonable risk assessments, which warned that it wouldn't go over well. But of course, how could you know, because you just posted [X] veekie and ignored the thread till the next update. In addition, until we had Greater Good, the only functional mechanic to raise stability was restore harmony (as people were too terrified to use festivals), which was only effective as a main and we had already lost the action prior to the tax reform coming up, and even then it sent people into a terrified tizzy because it first applied -1 stability.
What you fail to realize is that it wasn't my rhetoric that prevented stability from going to 3, it was the opportunity cost of raising stability at all that prevented it from going to 3 on it's own.
As to my speculations, the mood of the people doesn't specifically indicate how it affects us mechanically. Emboldened, yeah, sounds great, but then somebody does something retarded because they feel safe enough that if it goes wrong nothing really bad will happen, and causes a mess. I never speculated that the narrative wouldn't appear to be puppies and sunshine, I speculated that mechanically, we would see fewer advancements at a time that we couldn't even deliberately perform study actions. Given that we can do dedicated study now, I would say high stability has some other hidden negative tied to it, possibly in relation to Observance's frankly horrendous Con effect, which would logically be enhanced by higher stability at the time, or related to the 'people feel protected enough that retarded decisions seem better' speculative I presented above.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
That is not an option we have. I'm fine if you would like to. We can't. It's a natural progression at this stage (we agree on that much) and we have no concepts to even express it as a problem IC. Our broadscale options will NEVER eliminate it, because we can't make IC people actually focus on it.
All we can do is limit and reduce it. And that's not our only priority.
Edit: will never eliminate it till we develop enough philosophy to conceive of it as an issue IC I mean. At that point, I'm much happier to talk about functionally eliminating it.
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