Paths of Civilization

veekie · May 10, 2017

Kiba said:
That's a long time in the future.

I suspect we'll have congestion soon enough, and there will be proposals to ban animals or carts during the daytime like the Roman tried. It could be alleviated somewhat by turning the roof into streets though.

The hallmark of a True City is the transition to a service based economy, I think. Where the population had risen to the point where local food production simply cannot meet needs anymore.

DocMatoi said:
She was bi.
anyway, @Academia Nut I gotta ask. Is there any actual way out of this one or have you cooked us up an impossible situation?

We already knew how to fix it long ago: New Trails, Improve Festivals, Proclaim Glory, Restore Order, Enforce Law all can do it.
However, two of them are out due to overcentralization being considered more of a problem than the March, two of them are expensive for little mechanical gain, and one of them is circumstantial, requiring a good Admin King while we're at Stability -1

Frankite316 said:
Should we expand to blackriver to occupy the marche's time?

...uh, how is starting an even more remote and disconnected province going to help with the problem of people being remote and disconnected?

Kiba said:
If we're going to spend effort on building aqueducts, I propose Northshore, which borders the March.

Also, I suspect building an aqueduct for the March is going to be challenging, since the March is much farther away from any spring or reservoir.

Stonepen borders the March as well, and is a shorter distance from Valleyhome.

Frankite316 · May 10, 2017

Okay so what is the plan for next turn?

Ancient Scholar · May 10, 2017

[] Everyone can come on in! (-4 Stability, chance of further loss,+11-15 Econ, further effects, chance of over crowding, Upper Valleyhome attains True City status.

Man people are dumb to vote for this in the first place. Seems like the problem fixed itself though.

Didn't Baby Boom take some actions or something? I don't know how the voting works in this quest since options are done differently. (Like there was no vote to decide the main, secondary, or kick. It just happened somehow.)

So what the plan with the Stallions? They are getting worse.

2xMachina · May 10, 2017

veekie said:
Not nearly practical. Moving people around is expensive, you need justification for breaking up families and spreading people out.

Unfortunately we can't do that for just being Disharmonious anymore.

Justification: Encouraging people to experience more things and meet new people.

Pretty sure we already do on a small scale. Farmers move along farmlands quite often. It's just that artisan and admins don't usually move.
But why not reassign them elsewhere periodically to learn?

Admin for valleyhome, go learn about governing a coastal settlement, etc. Maybe can take some ideas from other places.
And if they had to dabble as a artisan etc, they'd know the issues artisans face, and can better administrate for them.
This should help with "distant" chief problem also.

It's not punishment for bad behavior. It's just a working vacation.

Nicklance · May 10, 2017

[X] Random Admin tech upgrade
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] New Trails (-1 Econ, +1 Diplo, +1 Centralization, other effects)
[X] Take in some (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)

kilopi505 · May 10, 2017

[x] Free holy site expansion (+2 Mysticism)
[x] Attrikwyn ([Good Admin, Diplo, and Martial])
[x] Study Health (-1 Econ, greater chance of new discoveries)
[x] Take in some (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)

Chehrazad · May 10, 2017

Umi-san said:
yo just chill he don't care, u don't need to care. Dismiss him as stupid and be aight

actually no don't do that Dismissing someone as stupid is a silly excuse for ignoring arguments, however bad they may or may not be. I'll give you a warning for marginal behaviour and a polite request to not repeat this kind of behaviour.

tenchifew · May 10, 2017

WeaponX1023 said:
[] Everyone can come on in! (-4 Stability, chance of further loss,+11-15 Econ, further effects, chance of over crowding, Upper Valleyhome attains True City status.

Man people are dumb to vote for this in the first place. Seems like the problem fixed itself though.

Didn't Baby Boom take some actions or something? I don't know how the voting works in this quest since options are done differently. (Like there was no vote to decide the main, secondary, or kick. It just happened somehow.)

So what the plan with the Stallions? They are getting worse.

Huh?
There most certainly was a vote to decide main, secondary and kick.

ziizo · May 10, 2017

[X] Random Admin tech upgrade
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] New Trails (-1 Econ, +1 Diplo, +1 Centralization, other effects)
[X] Take in some (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)

veekie · May 10, 2017

WeaponX1023 said:
So what the plan with the Stallions? They are getting worse.

Main New Trails first of all. We need to get them linked up properly so they're getting at least equal portion Ymaryn culture as to Nomad culture.
Secondly, address their concerns about Valleyhome getting all the good shiny. Build infrastructure for them(which is currently...pretty much just Holy Sites and Aqueducts), increase production of Artwork so they also benefit from the glazed pots and Crow figurines.
Thirdly, remove their conflict source. If they can't raid the Nomad for wives, they'd settle into a more traditional configuration eventually. A good Heroic Diplomacy generalized Salt Gift should do the trick with buying another few generations of peace there. Improved Festivals will also help reduce their cultural drift
Fourth, find SOME excuse to perform a Restore Order action. It's the most powerful tool for removing dissidents if you have a Heroic Administrator. Or a Proclaim Glory, which can be used to use art to spread the message of how to be Ymaryn

2xMachina said:
Justification: Encouraging people to experience more things and meet new people.

Pretty sure we already do on a small scale. Farmers move along farmlands quite often. It's just that artisan and admins don't usually move.
But why not reassign them elsewhere periodically to learn?

Admin for valleyhome, go learn about governing a coastal settlement, etc. Maybe can take some ideas from other places.
And if they had to dabble as a artisan etc, they'd know the issues artisans face, and can better administrate for them.
This should help with "distant" chief problem also.

It's not punishment for bad behavior. It's just a working vacation.

Travel is not cheap. It's one thing to move a few dozen people to teach the locals how to work the soil. It's another to move ten thousand people around regularly.

2xMachina · May 10, 2017

veekie said:
Travel is not cheap. It's one thing to move a few dozen people to teach the locals how to work the soil. It's another to move ten thousand people around regularly.

I had thought our people is light on possessions.
Houses are provided, as with all job tools. They practically don't have to bring anything when getting reassigned.
Their new home has the necessary stuff. Their new job location has the tools they need to do their job.

It's just a matter of walking over to the other province with a bag of sentimental personal stuff you'd want to keep.

Kiba · May 10, 2017

veekie said:
Won't happen with us. We already have our half exiles scooping up all the horse poop for Black Soil usage.

The historical crisis was about that there were too many horses in the cities that no amount of manure collectors are able to keep up, and generating too much manure that people literally pay farmers to take it away. It is no longer a resource, but a liability.

In the update, we have seen that the production of black soil was less necessary before due to literal centuries of work in making the soil more fertile.

As more humans congregate, the faster the tailed pits fill up, and the more we have to build. All those black soils and human wastes have to go somewhere.

PyroTechno · May 10, 2017

[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] Grand Sacrifice (-3 Econ, +2 Stability)
[X] Let it be known that you have room (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)

Kiba · May 10, 2017

veekie said:
Travel is not cheap. It's one thing to move a few dozen people to teach the locals how to work the soil. It's another to move ten thousand people around regularly.

We don't have the infrastructure to make it possible. Our watchtowers are not widespread enough to also evolve into rest stations and miniforts.

Academia Nut · May 10, 2017

notgreat said:
Are province actions affected by our king's stats?
Can you give a full listing of the levels associated with the stats? I thought it was poor->mediocre->average->exceptional->heroic but now we've apparently added "good" as well. (presumably between average and exceptional)

Yes.
I'm being a bit loosey-goosey, but it's something like non-existant->awful->poor->mediocre->average->above average->good->exceptional->heroic

hylas240 said:
Do we get the art/mysticism bonus for secondary mines as well, or only as a main?

Only main.

BlueFlamingWings said:
re both Magwyna and Attrikwyn single? Because a way of handling the issue is to marry them off ~~(against their wills).~~ If they are unattached, I'm sure the elders thought of it.

They are both married, although that wouldn't be an impediment for Attrikwyn and legally wouldn't be an impediment for Magwyna if she wanted, but she doesn't.

veekie said:
Question: How does this Art and Mysticism boost work IC? Is it that major construction projects will train new artisans and shamans to study how they work, and then release them into general population when done, or something else?

It's civic pride that catalyzes an explosion in artwork and the study of the world around them.

hylas240 said:
If we choose New Trails here, will it bring the Stallion Tribes closer to us or will it just build new trails to the Southern Shore providence?

It will build new trails everywhere and bring the Stallion Tribes closer.

Kiba said:
Apparently, well dressed stones are called ashlar? @Academia Nut ?

Neat, will have to remember that name.

mastigos said:
have we ever had a king from the Stallions? I know we haven't had a hero king, but what about one of our anonymous standard ones? Also, do they have a bonus to hero generation or something?

Hmmmm... probably not yet.

Kiba said:
Do cities allow horses and cows into the city? They do generate manure.

They generally don't due to space, but there is no explicit ban, although the People would start complaining about manure where others might not.

DocMatoi said:
Is there any actual way out of this one or have you cooked us up an impossible situation?

Oh, there is certainly a way out. Whether the thread will take it... hard to say.

butchock · May 10, 2017

[X] Random Admin tech upgrade
[X] Attrikwyn ([Good Admin, Diplo, and Martial]
[X] Grand Sacrifice (-3 Econ, +2 Stability)
[X] Everyone can come on in! (-4 Stability, chance of further loss, +11-15 Econ, further effects, chance of over crowding, Upper Valleyhome attains True City status)

Kiba · May 10, 2017

Academia Nut said:
They generally don't due to space, but there is no explicit ban, although the People would start complaining about manure where others might not.

I am actually glad we actually nip that in the bud.

Abby Normal · May 10, 2017

[X] Random Admin tech upgrade
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] New Trails (-1 Econ, +1 Diplo, +1 Centralization, other effects)
[X] Take in some (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)

Kiba · May 10, 2017

DocMatoi said:
She was bi.
anyway, @Academia Nut I gotta ask. Is there any actual way out of this one or have you cooked us up an impossible situation?

What is the way out? Patriarchy?

Will it involve such dire thing as a civil war?

Ian Drash · May 10, 2017

[X] Random Admin tech upgrade
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [PoorMartial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] Grand Sacrifice (-3 Econ, +2 Stability)
[X] Let it be known that you have room (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)

Ancient Scholar · May 10, 2017

tenchifew said:
Huh?
There most certainly was a vote to decide main, secondary and kick.

Your right I forgot. It doesn't really show up like usual quests though.

Doomed Wombat · May 10, 2017

So do we have anyway of getting rid of our anti metal thing?

BlueFlamingWings · May 10, 2017

Academia Nut said:
They are both married, although that wouldn't be an impediment for Attrikwyn and legally wouldn't be an impediment for Magwyna if she wanted, but she doesn't.

It's not a question of want -- I was thinking like one of the elders and thought that this was a good way to solve the issue. A political marriage. But I'll drop it now.

DragonParadox · May 10, 2017

Alex pears said:
So do we have anyway of getting rid of our anti metal thing?

Yes, but it's painful and chancy: Bite the bullet and take proscribed actions (nine or study) and then pray to the mighty RNG we won't get a plague that turn. We may have to do it more than once, but eventually it should get through people's thick skulls.

Powerofmind · May 10, 2017

Academia Nut said:
Oh, there is certainly a way out. Whether the thread will take it... hard to say.

This is the part where the ST said 'fuck that we're not paying what we have to pay to remove that belief.'

IIRC, the wording was that the ST had been piling up useless cruft beliefs for generations, but the ST were never willing to take the hit (which means it was likely Stability or Economy, their weakest pair of stats) to remove any of them.

[X] Random Admin tech upgrade
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] New Trails (-1 Econ, +1 Diplo, +1 Centralization, other effects)
[X] Take in some (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)

Paths of Civilization

Amateur Editor/Beta

Someone's Daughter

Lazily Lurking

The Procrastination Pokemon

High Clerk of the Ymaryn

Amateur Editor/Beta

Let's go Darling!

In Madness Fallen