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Paths of Civilization

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Citino said:
...wait, why is my vote under don't kick? Meh, I'll change that in a minute. So here are the eight. All of which are voting saltern. Which means that there are 2 unassigned votes that matter. One, I assume, is yours? That still leaves it at 24 vs 10.

Kick saltern wins.
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That is kind of biased, as you don't know how many voters in total there are. You just grabbed from a small piece of the tally. Not the whole thing. This is like looking at a cat picture where all you see is the cat's head.
 
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Marlin said:
That is kind of biased, as you don't know how many voters in total there are. You just grabbed from a small piece of the tally. Not the whole the thing. This is like looking at a cat picture where all you see is the cat's head.
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Doesn't matter. The only votes that would matter for the kick would be the ones that are voting for saltern, because that is where the subvote is located. Why should we take into account the people voting for garden's view on saltern?

Like, why would we use all the votes when the vote addresses whether we kick saltern? What's your solution, give all votes not for kicking saltern to 'don't kick'?
 
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@Citino ok, since you're using the shitty forum tally you're math is way off. Let's use an actual tally:

Vote Tally : Paths of Civilization | Page 1130 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.8.3
[55] Dead Priests (One compatible value: The Greater Good)
[1] Highland Kingdom
[1] Thunder Horse (Probable Honour value)
Task: Main
[45][Main] Saltern
[15][Main] The Garden
Task: Kick
[28][Kick] Saltern
[10][Kick] The Garden
[9][Kick] Don't kick
[1][Kick] Saltern x2
Task: Secondary
[52][Secondary] Study Health
[48][Secondary] Study Health x2
[10][Secondary] New Settlement-Southshore
[7][Secondary] New Settlement-Southshore x2
[1][Secondary] Art Patronage
[1][Secondary] Art Patronage x2
[1][Secondary] Study Forest
Total No. of Voters: 61
Ok, so according to this tally, we have 45 people voting for the Saltern, with 28 people voting to kick, and 9 people voting to not kick. disregarding the 10 people who voted to kick the garden instead, that leaves 14 unassigned voters, which is 9+14 according to @Sivantic logic. Still loses to kick.
 
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Eh, lets wait till Academia gets back to see how he plays those who are not voting for the kick at all, right now people are just arguing over something that Academia could solve in literally a post.
 
tryrar said:
...I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall here. Also, capslock was because I'm tired of the insane troll logic required to say that since 20 people didn't have an opinion on kicking, then that means they're automatically AGAINST kicking. We've repeatdly tried to explain that's not how voting works, because just because you don't vote for it, it doesn't mean you're against it, it means you have no opinion on the subject.
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Kick has always been an opt in decision.If 50 people vote for a megaproject, but only 20 vote to kick, then it shouldn't be kicked. AN had never specified that we needed to vote against Kicking. The people that have added that specification did so out of their own initiative, not because it was required.

This is why from the very beginning, I just tagged AN because I knew it was going to lead to this. Why do you think exactly none of us have actually used word of God to settle this? A quote would have settled this decisively, yet no one has done so. Why

Because we are all just guessing.

We are all working under assumptions because AN never clarified.
Academia Nut said:
[Stewards] special kicker: Pay 1 Stability to double the effort on a megaproject action, consuming twice the required per turn resources but advancing the job faster. If taking a second main action on a megaproject, requires additional Stability payment to double that as well.
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This is all it said on the project.
Citino said:
Doesn't matter. The only votes that would matter for the kick would be the ones that are voting for saltern, because that is where the subvote is located. Why should we take into account the people voting for garden's view on saltern?

Like, why would we use all the votes when the vote addresses whether we kick saltern? What's your solution, give all votes not for kicking saltern to 'don't kick'?
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Yes it matters. Because you conveniently cut out the other ten people who also voted for Saltern.
 
Citino said:
Doesn't matter. The only votes that would matter for the kick would be the ones that are voting for saltern, because that is where the subvote is located. Why should we take into account the people voting for garden's view on saltern?
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Because that would help point out how many are not voting for or nay [kick] adding to the number of those abstaining, and changing the amount that matter to those potentially saying Don't Kick. It's not like the cat's head is the centre of the universe, a fire could be occurring in the background.
 
tryrar said:
Ok, so according to this tally, we have 45 people voting for the Saltern, with 28 people voting to kick, and 9 people voting to not kick. disregarding the 10 people who voted to kick the garden instead, that leaves 14 unassigned voters, which is 9+14 according to your logic. Still loses to kick.
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And that's perfectly fine. It wasn't that clear cut earlier, which is why I brought the subject up. Now that it is clearly winning it hardly matters.
 
tryrar said:
Ok, so according to this tally, we have 45 people voting for the Saltern, with 28 people voting to kick, and 9 people voting to not kick. disregarding the 10 people who voted to kick the garden instead, that leaves 14 unassigned voters, which is 9+14 according to your logic. Still loses to kick.
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Hey, not all of us have fancy tally machines. :V

But yeah, that's how it would go.
Sivantic said:
Yes it matters. Because you conveniently cut out the other ten people who also voted for Saltern.
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Cool. add those and that still means saltern wins. 24 vs 20.

And that is if we follow your logic that not voting = vote for not kicking.
 
Sivantic said:
And that's perfectly fine. It wasn't that clear cut earlier, which is why I brought the subject up. Now that it is clearly winning it hardly matters.
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It would still be winning in any case, since only 9 people voted against it. 14 people abstained from voting on the subject, which isn't the same thing as voting no in any voting system.
 
Marlin said:
Because that would help point out how many are not voting for or nay [kick] adding to the number of those abstaining, and changing the amount that matter to those potentially saying Don't Kick. It's not like the cat's head is the centre of the universe, a fire could be occurring in the background.
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Then are you proposing that we add everyone who didn't vote on kicking to the not kicking pile? Just to make your stance clear.
 
tryrar said:
It would still be winning in any case, since only 9 people voted against it. 14 people abstained from voting on the subject, which isn't the same thing as voting no in any voting system.
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Did you see the quote I gave from AN?
Academia Nut said:
[Stewards] special kicker: Pay 1 Stability to double the effort on a megaproject action, consuming twice the required per turn resources but advancing the job faster. If taking a second main action on a megaproject, requires additional Stability payment to double that as well.
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He only gave an option to add the kicker. He never specified what we had to do if we didn't want the kicker. It was an opt in vote.

That makes the kicker a subvote. Usually If a subvote has the majority then it gets added in. Otherwise not enough people were enthused about it and didn't want it.
 
tryrar said:
It would still be winning in any case, since only 9 people voted against it. 14 people abstained from voting on the subject, which isn't the same thing as voting no in any voting system.
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14 people abstaining in this kind of vote is a significant number, so at least one of them probably did it thinking it counted as not kicking. Still up to Academia tho
 
Ghostdevil said:
14 people abstaining in this kind of vote is a significant number, so at least one of them probably did it thinking it counted as not kicking. Still up to Academia tho
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Sure, one or two, but all of them? That weighs the results heavily in favor of not doing a kick.

Though I guess I'm really arguing for no reason. From what I can tell, of the 48 people voting for saltern, 28 voted to kick, which is the majority.
 
tryrar said:
Ok, so according to this tally, we have 45 people voting for the Saltern, with 28 people voting to kick, and 9 people voting to not kick. disregarding the 10 people who voted to kick the garden instead, that leaves 14 unassigned voters, which is 9+14 according to @Sivantic logic. Still loses to kick.
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k so like yeah siv loses (<3) and also let's switch to a diff topic

Sivantic said:
He only gave an option to add the kicker. He never specified what we had to do if we didn't want the kicker. It was an opt in vote.
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He never specified what we had to do if we didn't want the kicker nor what we didn't have to do.

It is neither an opt-in nor normal kind of vote; it's a schrodinger vole.
 
*sigh* This is why I just asked AN at the very beginning. People just want to push their own assumptions forward as facts and then claim the other side is stupid for not accepting it so.
 
Citino said:
Then are you proposing that we add everyone who didn't vote on kicking to the not kicking pile? Just to make your stance clear.
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Doesn't matter, tryrar did the math, did the tally of the hypothetical if the hypotenuse voted don't kick instead of holding no opinon. 9+14= 23 which shows the amount possible to say Don't kick.
 
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