Stop: I didn't come here to climb mount salt
i didn't come here to climb mount salt Yet climb it I will.

This thread will be locked until tomorrow.

This thread will calm down. It will calm down and engage with both it's constituent members and @Academia Nut who has spent 260K words on making this thread an enjoyable place for everyone, or I will keep it locked for longer. Stop insulting each other, stop edging close to violations of Rule 3 and stop acting like a single thing going wrong in a Quest is the end of the world.

Are we quite clear?
 
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Lightning Round XI
[X] Bend knee to the Gylruv (1.1x)

The Patriarch of Nevien, Haddyth of the Gylruv, was nearly knocked off his throne by the contents of the package sent to him by envoy from the Ymaryn Kingdom. It was a request for a 'strategic alliance of mutual protection' that was, in effect, a request that the Ymaryn be vassalized by him. Oh, the language was as face saving as possible, there were a number of clauses that were no doubt meant to be argued over, and the exact arrangement would undoubtedly leave the Ymaryn the least loyal of subjects in short order, but the overall package amounted to a vassalization. The Patriarch had been considering the Ymaryn issue for some time, getting ready to secure long term peace treaties with his western neighbours so he could focus efforts on securing warm water ports from those southern folk lest his fellow Merchant Princes tear him apart, and before he could even begin contemplation of where on the long border to strike first the crafty merchants there handed him this!

On the one hand, consideration and consultation with his ministers let him know what a naked ploy this was. The merchants and artisans there had let themselves get surrounded, and at some point either the Gylruv or the Black Sheep would take a bite out of them, and then they would be torn apart - quickly or slowly, it mattered not the speed but the inevitability - by the two. It was just that the time had never been right, and the Patriarch and the Black Emperor had put it off for 'tomorrow'. Now though... now the Ymaryn would join up, whole and intact and able to demand the protection of the Patriarch's armies against the Emperor, to demand free access to the markets the Nevien had spilled blood to dominate, and still able to dictate their own internal affairs. There was almost a part of the Patriarch that wanted to reject the offer, but he knew that if he did so they could turn around and suggest a similar deal to the Black Emperor, and then the two of them could probably carve out significant chunks of Gylruv during the inevitable civil war. The Patriarch's subordinates would not accept the rejection of immediately obtaining all the Yllthon Sea ports and access to the Trelli Strait without having to shed a single drop of Gylruv blood. They would not accept the failure to grasp such magnificent prestige as this offer entailed. They would not accept an offer for their sons to be educated in the finest universities cheaply being turned into a barring of those doors.

The Patriarch looked at the offer, and knew that it would be trouble for his grandsons, but for him and his sons? The immediate benefits so far outweighed the potential costs as to make it foolish to reject for fear of what might happen in future generations. At the very least they could claim the title Protector of the Greater Ymaryn People... and that could give them claims in the Stymyar and even in Kielmyr. Maybe not the best claims, but this was the sort of legitimacy coup that attracted succubi to kings and emperors in the night, just to balance the scales of the universe.

In the end, while there was a degree of the expected back and forth on fine details, the Patriarch could do nothing but accept the offer presented.

For the Ymaryn, this was of course a bitter tincture to swallow, but while a great embarrassment, the securing of vital trade routes and military security was deemed worth it. Especially as there was something perversely proud to the logistical achievement of taking timbers from the extreme north of Gylruv, transporting them down their rivers and across the Yllthon, up through the rivers and canals of the core territories, and then down the Great River to the ports on the Monsoon Sea. It was crazy, and expensive in comparison to what others who were closer to the source paid for timber, but then again getting those northern woods was a pain enough in that sea that the People actually made considerably profit selling raw timbers to Syffrynite sailors in need of repairs. Access to the Gylruv also allowed for the easier hiring of Kielmyr expatriates to assist in the modernization of the ports of Redshore and Newport. The People were still behind in naval technology and traditions, but they were able to make major strides to catch up.

The world opened up. Places that were rumours or third hand merchants tales before could now be visited by official expeditions, to see what was actually out there. Whole continents only considered on philosopher's globes could be visited for the first time, and strange new peoples talked to.

The Syffrynites were of course everywhere already, in forms both benign and malicious, but there was opposition to their domination, in places both expected and unexpected. While in Kus, the Lands of Spice and Tea, the Black Sheep were pushing many to join up with Syffrynites in fear, in Hung, the Lands of Tea and Silk, the empire there remained strong despite recent troubles and forced arrogant foreign traders to bow to them, and in the even more distant Nohon the emperor there had embraced firearms to the point that they might even have more than the People! In between the Kus and the Hung there were the island chains and dozens of jungle kingdoms of the Greater Undikus, although the Vortuga had done a number on many of them to secure trade posts around major straits, and the Halvyni had set up colonies to grow spices without having to trade for them. Beyond that in the strange continents undreamed by the People there were lands nearly without people who had not been settled by the Syffrynites, but there remained an empire in the mountains worthy of the name. With the sort of bureaucracy that the People or Hung could appreciate able to mobilize tens of thousands to war and sitting upon an almost literal mountain of silver, the Mapanca had managed to survive plague and foreign invasion to the point where the Syffrynites had been forced to sell their goods for silver rather than simply taking it, allowing the purchase of things that let the people there stay above water.

The People were more than happy to offer the high quality products of their artisans for Mapanca silver, at prices that were wavered on the edge of profitable, just to undercut the Syffrynites in general and the Vortugs in particular.

Elsewhere in the continents of Mahaxia the primitive tribes had not fared as well, being driven out of their lands along the coasts for various Syffrynite colonies. Those colonies seemed fueled by two processes: Syffrynites fleeing the religious gygo stirred up in their homelands, and the importation of slaves and indentured servants. These came from all sorts of lands, but from contacts with the Khemetri it sounded like the Vortuga and Hespranxer were quite interested in buying up the displaced peoples caused by the economic collapses all the silver and gold they shipped over had caused in Greater Khem kingdoms that had relied on gold mines for prosperity. While at first the king and the traders were concerned about this for economic reasons, soon enough stories of the appalling treatment of the slaves in the agricultural colonies of the Mahaxias began to filter back.

And then the priests and scholars stepped up, holding aloft ancient tales.

"'And the Trelli did, in their wickedness, separate men as though they were cattle, setting apart those of dark skin from those of light skin. Those of dark skin they sent north to be strangers in the Lands of Tin so that they might never escape, and those of light skin they sent south to be strangers in the Lands of Gold, so that they might never escape. For this act of desecration of his creations, God stirred forth the wrath of the People against the Trelli, to punish them for their sins, for God had not created men to be cattle'. Brothers and sisters, here me now, we have long known the wickedness and inhospitality of the Vortuga, but never before have we truly known the depths of their sins!"

Such were the sort of speeches that rang out from the town squares, university trained theologians and scholars taking up generations of well sharpened rhetorical tools. While the upper classes tried to tamp down on some of the more radical rhetoric that spread towards the treatment of internal indentured servants and serfs, they had to admit that it serviced them quite well for the People to be furious about the issue of slavery. They had few true slaves within their territory, while it sounded like their foes made much of their wealth in one or another off of forced labour in their colonies, so anything that might hurt their foes on that front was a useful weapon. When the Purple Dye Maker's Guild found out about the Vortuga's production of red dye in their colonies and the great number of Greater Khem slaves they were importing, they outright manumitted any slave they or a member of their guild owned out of apoplectic fury at the threat to their primordial charter.

Meanwhile, while the People had found themselves drawn into the conflicts of their suzerain overlords in the Gylruv, the Nevien Merchant Princes and the Patriarch had found many reasons to establish winter palaces in and around New Blackmouth, noble sons often speaking better Ymaryn than Gylruvian from their university days, and in many places Ymaryn ambassadors found employment as they were considered more 'neutral' and 'trustworthy'. As such, they had access to all sorts of courts in Syffryn and the Khemetri, and had some influence to affect the relations of the Patriarch with his closer neighbours.

Such as, rather than fighting each other, perhaps the Gylruv and the Kielmyr could both agree that the Wyrmyn were annoying and the two kingdoms had more in common kicking in the teeth of the rich farmers than in squabbling over forests that both states already possessed vast quantities of. Or, further afield, they could mention to the Sketch that they had many enemies among the Hespranxer and their most profitable trade routes were with the Black Sheep, Kus, and Hung rather colonies in the Mahaxias, so disruption of the slave trade would inflict considerable hurt upon their rivals. To the Khemetri, they renewed old trade deals and floated over a few loans to help shore up their internal stability, while also pointing out that the devaluation of their gold mines had come from the Vortuga and Hespranxer and supporting them in any way would only bring further pain, so helping out the stability of some of their more distant neighbours in Greater Khem might be in their favour.

In courts, salons, coffeehouses, and universities all across the world the ambassadors and scholars of the People whispered about how slavery could only help their enemies. Perhaps it would not be enough, there were after all many counter arguments by those who figured that if they got in on the game themselves the wealth being earned by their rivals could be theirs, but there were many places where the arguments took root.

Choose two major groups to deepen ties with
[] Gylruv (1.5x)
[] Kielmry Triple Crown (1.2x)
[] Black Sheep (0.9x)
[] Kus Petty Kingdoms (1x)
[] Greater Undikus Kingdoms (1.2x)
[] Khemetri (1.5x)
[] Greater Khem Eastern Kingdoms (1.2x)
[] Greater Khem Western Kingdoms (1x)
[] Hung (1x)
[] Nohon (1x)
[] Mapanca (1.1x)
[] Sketch (0.9x)
[] Halvyni (0.9x)
[] Styrmyr (0.5x)
[] Hespranxer (0.2x)
[] Wyrmyn (0.1x)
[] Vortuga (0.05x)
 
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Early Modern Major Group Equivalents
[X] Nohon (1x)
[X] Mapanca (1.1x)

@Academia Nut Considering these are still expies, do you mind listing what they are expies of so we have a better understanding of where they are located?

Gylruv -> Russia
Kielmry Triple Crown -> Kalmar Union (Scandinavia)
Black Sheep -> Mughals
Kus Petty Kingdoms -> Indian Kingdoms
Greater Undikus Kingdoms -> South-East Asia
Khemetri -> Egypt
Greater Khem Eastern Kingdoms -> East Africa
Greater Khem Western Kingdoms -> West Africa
Hung -> China
Nohon -> Japan
Mapanca -> Mapuche + Inca
Sketch -> British
Halvyni -> Dutch
Styrmyr -> Hungary
Hespranxer -> Spain + France
Wyrmyn -> Poland
Vortuga -> Portugal + Spain
Etal -> Italian States
Tortun -> Germanics/Holy Roman Empire
->Ochruhr -> Austria
->Behryvar -> Bavaria
->Sexton -> Saxons
->Badbarn -> Brandenburg
->Vohemme -> Bohemia
->Hasum -> Hanseatic Cities
There are also other groups who are minor (Irish, Basques) or out of what you can really influence to your interests (Germany, Italy) and hundreds of other minor groups.
 
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Lightning Round XII
Primary: Gylruv
Secondary: Kielmyr
Secondary: Black Sheep

Agendas:
Primary: Greater Ymar
Secondary: Great North-South Road
Secondary: Anti-West Economic Alliance

It was a complex idea with a variety of simple objectives that required complex methods to actually achieve. Through strengthening ties with the Gylruv and encouraging the Kielmyr and Black Sheep to have the "right" set of objectives, the intent was to secure the People's own borders in such a way that they could safely focus on the outside world, while also encouraging their neighbours in good position to interfere with their rivals to take mutually beneficial diplomatic, economic, and military action.

With the most intense focus on tying the Gylruv ever closer to the People, one of the major issues was to secure the Gylruv western border in such a way that the Patriarch would be more interested in exploiting trade routes and internal development than in building up the army. To that end, the diplomats to the Kielmyr made major strides. With the People already providing warm water ports, it was easy to convince the Kielmyr that if they wanted to join up the Gylruv in carving up the Wyrmyn, the Gylruv had little interest in the rich port city of Gayns. With the Kielmyr very much wanting to dominate trade in far northern Kalesee Sea and Gayns being the biggest port outside of their control, the offer that the two empires might rip up the annoying Wyrymyn between them was extremely tempting. There were other rivals to the Wyrmyn, like certain factions of the Styrmyr, and some of the eastern principalities of the United Ueman Empire of the Tortuns - only the last element of the name being remotely accurate - who also wanted a piece, but there were some complications there as the former were also rivals to the Gylruv and People at times, and the latter often had issues with the Kielmyr. Still, keeping them neutral in the coming conflict was enough.

The People also took this prelude to speak with the Black Sheep about their own stance. In the generations since its inception, the Black Emperor had moved his throne progressively east to be closer to the richer and more populous regions of Kus. While from an administrative standpoint this made sense, the northern and western parts of the empire were growing increasingly discontent, even as the people of Kus were rattled by the encroachment and expansion of the Empire. Revolt was steadily brewing, not helped along by the fact that Black Sheep successions tended to get messy if the strongest heir didn't take steps to kill his brothers before the death of the current emperor. More than a few military expeditions into the petty kingdoms within the interior of Kus had been launched in an effort to loot enough to pay the debts incurred during a civil war caused by a succession crisis. The People's envoys and ambassadors thus whispered caution into the ears of courtiers who had the Black Emperor's ear. He was pushing many coastal cities and minor princelings into the arms of the Syffrynite traders, who brought trouble upon everyone. Better to step back and take more careful measures. Better to spend time reforming elements of the bureaucracy so that those tax collectors and surveyors who had been appointed by one Emperor would not need to be replaced or have their loyalties reaffirmed during succession. Better to secure strong and lasting peace treaties with certain neighbours - like the People and Gylruv - than to risk someone taking advantage of a moment of weakness. The precedent of the breakaway Mahratathan Empire in the interior north-east in recent years was a fresh wound in the mind of the Black Emperor.

So it was that the People and their Gylruv overlords did secure peace and alliances with all the right people, and had a solid generation to do with as they wished.

They wished to kill the Wyrmyn.

The Wyrmyn were very, very wealthy from rich farmland and trade out of Gayns. By some estimates they fed most of the northern Syffryn cities with their output, directly or indirectly. Their nobility was thus extremely wealthy, able to support many sons as cavalry equipped with an extravagance of armour and weaponry... theoretically, in past years. The People in particular had been keeping tabs on the situation through university contacts and the like, and the Wyrmyn had slowly become victims of their own success. The situation had not quite reached a tipping point, but the nobility had been dividing the farm lands finer and finer as the number of nobles grew ever larger, and while on some level this had not divided up the actual fields, management had become a mess, while their parliament had become ridiculously unwieldy. Even the councils of the various trade republics the People knew of or had incorporated into their territory knew to add new layers of government to limit top level parliament sizes to a few hundred at most, while the Wyrmyn parliament had a theoretical elector count greater than ten thousand! And each had the right to speak their minds at least once, but with no limit to how long they could speak during their turn, so the parliament simply did not meet in full, and rarely even were rump parliaments called.

This was allowing a deep rot to settle into the kingdom as dysfunctions were not addressed. On their own it might take another few generations to become utterly untenable, but with the People working to isolate the Wyrmyn and get their biggest rivals aside from the Gylruv onside...

In a slow press the Gylruv and the People attacked from the east and south while the Kielmyr struck from the north and west, catching the Wyrmyn in the jaws of a vice, as they had feared might happen to them before they had requested vassalization from the Gylruv. The response was an utterly panicked response as the nobility discovered that they had no ability to coordinate with each other in a meaningful manner, the king paralyzed by just the effort to shout down nobles who had a legal right for an audience but no practical capacity to get the king to defend their farm in particular. Winter came and went and the next season the two fronts pressed in faster, pausing in their mad dash towards the middle only when the first autumn snows appeared. By this time the Tortun and Styrmyr had both realized that the Kielmyr and Gylruv were not going to stop, and decided that rather than oppose them at this point, they would rather gobble up scraps, striking in from the relatively unaffected south-west - just as they had been expected to do.

And all the while the Black Sheep were quite content to keep their western front troops deployed to garrison duty and their eastern front troops within their own borders instead of threatening their neighbours.

The initial slow press had been calculated to sow discord and also give a false assessment of the capacities of the aggressors, and now that the full strength of the People was revealed in a massive push, resistance along the south-east border collapsed, turning an inevitable loss of territory into the feeding frenzy of kingdoms over the carcass of another. The People's direct gains were small, but given the amount of influence they had in the Gylruv court and the degree to which the Patriarch's dynasty had been intermarried with the people's own royal family meant that saying one group was in charge of the other was a bit disingenuous. In any case, the Greater People were then able to convince the Kielmyr that their interests were best served by disrupting transoceanic trade in the Artemian, as the route that went through the People's and Gylruv lands favoured the Kielmyr significantly with their control of the Kalesee Sea as the north end of the Great North-South route. Given friendly relations with the Black Sheep and suggestions to focus on trade to them, this meant that exotic goods from the Kus could flow north, while bulk food and timber could flow south.

The Kielmyr thus agreed very much so that the disruption of trade by south-western Syffryn was very much in their interests and took up piracy with vigour.

The southern Syffrynites obviously objected to this, but if there was one strategy that simply did not work against the People or the Black Sheep, it was bombarding their shores. They might have difficulty besting the Vortugs at sea, but any attempts to wrest coastal concessions was met with massed battery fire that rapidly turned any attempted toeholds into burning timbers and piles of gravel. This thus created a zone of trade where the Syffrynites could not bully any locals, and ensured a small but significant supply of tea and spices that the went only to the friends of the People. Overland, the Gylruv and Black Sheep had enough control over the land routes that spices and silk could also flow by caravan. This brought great wealth to those controlling the routes and gave another path outside of Syffrynite control, especially since the Hung were also capable of expressing extreme displeasure to any who presumed to dictate terms to them.

Some of the wealth the People obtained went towards other neighbours, like the Khemetri and the petty kingdoms of Eastern Great Khem, to shore up their kings against the pressure of the piratical nations that plagued them. It perhaps wasn't enough, but with their situation stable the People knew that they could offer more assistance.

Select an area to increase ties with Gylruv
[] [Gylruv] Land reform (1.8x)
[] [Gylruv] Social reform (1.5x)
[] [Gylruv] Administrative reform (2x)
[] [Gylruv] Financial reform (1x)
[] [Gylruv] Education reform (0.8x)
[] [Gylruv] Mutual integration (1x)

Select an external focus
[] [Outside] Increase aid to groups opposed to the Syffrynites (2x)
[] [Outside] Collaborate with the Khemetri on mutually strengthening measures (1.5x)
[] [Outside] Increase privateering and promote useful pirates (1.2x)
[] [Outside] Send diplomats to Tortun and Styrmyr groups to solidify a peaceful western land border (1x)
[] [Outside] Continue to assist the Black Sheep in having control over their internal and external policies (1.2x)
[] [Outside] Subtly push the Black Sheep into splitting along an East-West fracture point so you can dominate the Western break (0.9x)
[] [Outside] Attempt to convince the Sketch that they would be better off looking east than west (0.9x)
 
Alpha industrial/space age system design
Alpha review of proposed new system for Industrial+ polities (currently most useful for Space Age+ polities)

Econ
Industrial capacity (Represents freely available throughput capacity)
Developed (Represents amount of capacity that can produced)
Pollution (Environmental and ecological damage caused by amount of development, high pollution can reduce Happiness, Living Standards, and have other effects)

Culture
Consciousness (Awareness of social issues and own place within the universe, influences Political Will, Happiness, and social type research)
Standard of Living (Economic output devoted towards consumer goods, entertainment, etc. High standard of living increases Happiness, while low standard of living decreases Happiness)
Happiness (How pleased the population is in general with their lot in life. High happiness improves certain actions, while low happiness risks insurrection, revolt, or civil war)

Technology
Academies (Top level intellectual throughput, determines how many highest level projects can be worked on at once)
Education (General level of population education, determines research speeds and number of Academies that can be sustained, also influences Consciousness)
Innovation (Level of lower level research done, leading to unexpected breakthroughs and new potential paths to take)

Diplomacy
Trust (How much you are generally trusted by others to mean what you say)
Espionage (Capacity for covert and subversive actions)

Martial
Militancy (Social acceptability of using violence to solve problems - internally or externally - influences Happiness, Political Will, and military type research)
Armies (General capacity for ground combat)
Fleets (General capacity for sea/space combat [depending on era])

Political Will - determines action throughput; influenced by Consciousness, Militancy, government type, economic type, events, and turn actions

The idea here is that you might have action lists with examples like say:

Develop Industry - Min. Industrial Capacity 1
1 Political Will, Increases Industrial Capacity by 1, Uses up 1 free Development

Increase Living Standards - Min. Industrial Capacity 1
1 Political Will, Temp Reduces Industrial Capacity by 1, Temp Increases Living Standards by 1
2 Political Will, Reduces Industrial Capacity by 1, Increases Living Standards by 1

Free Up Industry - Min. Permanent Living Standards 1
2 Political Will, Reduces Living Standards by 1, Increases Living Standards by 1

Improve Education - Min. Permanent Living Standards 1
2 Political Will, Reduces Living Standards by 1, Increases Education and Innovation by 1

I will work up a proper design document, but I hope this gets the idea across for what I am currently envisioning, so that feedback can be made.
 
Lightning Round XIII
Primary: Administrative reform (2x)
Secondary: Education reform (0.8x)

Primary: Continue to assist the Black Sheep in having control over their internal and external policies (1.2x)
Secondary: Collaborate with the Khemetri on mutually strengthening measures (1.5x)

For the People, sending advisers and teachers to the their most strategically significant neighbours to help fine tune institutions there was the most sensible of ideas. They wanted their neighbours, and the Gylruv portion of their increasingly intertwined dual kingdom, strong, stable, prosperous, and looking away from the People militarily. And while early efforts with the Gylruv showed great promise, issues began cropping up right away in certain segments. In particular, while efforts to bring about bureaucratic reform in the Gylruv lead to early success, a number of stumbling blocks soon cropped up. While one of them was finding enough locals with sufficient education to run the new institutions the People and the Patriarch were trying to grow - mitigated in part by the flood of teachers sent in to try to address the issues, another was that graft and corruption was in so deep that trying to pull it out might crash the economy.

Simply put, when everyone was on the take, you had to set the taxation levels punishingly high to get what you actually wanted out of the population. Lowering the taxes before you had sorted out these corruption issues would crash out the coffers, while tearing out the corrupt officials and tax collectors would lead to the new ones dutifully taxing the peasantry into famine and revolution. Given the recently acquired collection of not-exactly-happy-to-be-Gylruv peasants in the Wyrmyn Territories, this was seen of as a major problem. The only really viable solution was to lower taxes on the less developed areas while bringing in a proper bureaucracy, and have the healthy regions subsidize them.

While doable, the People's budget was looking remarkably threadbare as they were stretched out to subsidize so many: anti-Syffrynite groups in the Monsoon Sea, trade and diplomatic envoys to the Black Sheep and Khemetri, educational and administrative assistance to the Gylruv, and now outright subsidy to economically unhealthy segments of the Gylruv. Fundamentally, the People needed an influx of cash to pay for all the things they wanted to do. Thankfully they were not trying to do these things with hostile powers on their borders, even if their sea lanes were often a mess of skirmishes between various factions of merchants, privateers, pirates, and outright war with ships-of-the-line. Many political and economic rivals had to deal with their own internal and external issues, so at least no single group was outright dominating everywhere. The People had a significant set of advantages with their North-South trade corridor, but many of their trade practices still lagged behind the Syffrynites, and the Syffrynites still had numerous colonies that the People were unable to touch due to being eternally behind in naval traditions, even if their technological prowess was only a little behind the Syffrynite average.

Fortunately, relations with the Khemetri had helped significantly. While they had been diminished from prior eras with their gold mines no longer bringing in huge amounts of wealth to the king's coffers and their flood plains no longer something a large chunk of the Saffron Sea depended on to feed itself, support from the People had seen them through to a new sort of stable. The Khemetri had discovered that the world had a large demand for cotton and sugar that grew well in their flood plains, as well as the coffee and chocolate and spices that could be supported in their southern jungle holdings. While they had supported anti-slaving measures in their southern and western neighbours to hinder the economic exploitation of such groups by the Syffrynites who were their rivals, the Khemetri had invited many thousands of refugees into their territory, adding new peasantry to work the fields and plantations cropping up. While some of the more vocal priests and scholars were most displeased with this, most found this a win-win situation for everyone. Another wealthy anti-Syffrynite and pro-People trade partner in the Monsoon Sea was only a good thing.

The collaboration between the People and the Khemetri also brought up the potential idea of some form of canal system between the Saffron and Monsoon Seas within Khemetri territory that would make both kingdoms fabulously wealthy by cutting down trip lengths immensely, but the surveyors were distinctly uncertain about the possibility. It would be intensely expensive if it could be done, and there were probably better ways to go about facilitating trade anyway. Perhaps lesser canals and dams within the Khemetri to facilitate internal trade and agriculture first to build up local expertise and funds?

Actually, there were more than a few calls for a proper 'company' of some sort to help alleviate the financial issues, as well as build up some prestige given the major companies of the Syffrynites were often their face to the world.

Choose a company
[] Ymaryn Crown Bank (1x)
[] Monsoon Sea Trading Company (1.2x)
[] Greater Khem Trading Company (1x)
[] Ymaryn-Khemtri Canal Company (1.1x)
[] Hung Sea Trading Company (1x)
[] Far East Trading Company (0.8x)
[] North-East Fur Trading Company (0.8x)
 
Lightning Round XIV
[X] Ymaryn Crown Bank (1x)

The idea of developing a company specifically to help develop the Khemetri infrastructure in a profitably manner for everyone's benefit was strongly considered, but looking at the Syffrynite companies and making a few pointed questions, it rapidly became obvious that setting up a trade company might require subsidizing it for an uncomfortably long time or uncomfortably large amounts. Far better, it was decided, to rework the banking infrastructure so that the wealthy among the People would develop such things on their own, without requiring input from the Crown directly. More than that, it was also considered that this could be a good way to address numerous tax issues. Stealing a collection of ideas from the Halvyni and Sketch and Kielmyr, the architects of the banking plan worked out the right amount of growth to offer to attract in those interested in depositing their money with the bank while not also potentially saddling the bank with unsustainable debts. The secondary effect, other than giving the Crown a large amount of cash to work with, was that boyars and princes who had been hiding their wealth before would now tell the government how much they had, and might even throw a fit if their money was tracked improperly. There was a small tax on money gained from investment, but it was distinctly lower than the interest earned.

It was clever and sophisticated and adroitly avoided the pitfalls that had already tripped up Syffrynite crowns and traders before.

As such, when it went weird everyone was left scratching their heads.

Scandal and bad reputation plagued the Crown Bank within the first few years, rumours of impropriety and predatory lending bouncing about like sparks on the floor of a poorly maintained powder magazine. At the highest levels none of these rumours made sense though, the bank remained in good state and those in charge of organizing the loans and investments were specifically recruited from the most staid, conservative, and unadventurous accountants the Crown could find. They had written accounts of Syffrynites being complete idiots with their banks and had taken every measure to avoid that!

Eventually though the investigations revealed what was going on, and the disconnect between reality for both those within the bank and without. Fundamentally, a large number of nobles had a really screwy idea about what the bank actually did, and quite a few had taken out loans using their properties as collateral, saying that they intended to use them for prudent development of lands or businesses, only to take the money were given and sometimes quite literally gambled it away. They were then surprised when, not only could they not take out another loan using their local reputation or access to troops to extract more coin from the "moneylender", but no, their ancestral lands were being stripped from them and the bank had the King's army backing them if the nobles decided that they wanted to make an issue of it. While the Ymaryn king or Gylruv Patriarch made a few personal nullifications, in general the bank won out, which engendered a huge amount of resentment from the nobility and those who listened to them. The Gylruv lower nobility was hit particularly hard by the Ymaryn Crown Bank in this manner.

The Ymaryn king also discovered to some discomfort that through the Crown Bank he was fast becoming the largest landowner in Gylruv, no doubt soon to eclipse the Patriarch if it kept up. The Ymaryn Crown also owned a considerably amount of land in other kingdoms, based off of the prudent merchants and nobility telling their imprudent counterparts that the Ymaryn were the best bank to go to if you needed large amount of money for an investment. While this land was often sold off as quickly as it could if it started to become a political hot potato, this was causing the concentration of land and wealth into a smaller and smaller pool of people. While in some ways useful, there were many rankled under this, and the anger threatened to boil over and wreck the bank's ability to do anything because no one trusted them. Worse yet, as demonstrated when one of the Lesser Princes of Gylruv had a company go bad, it was found that it was politically and practically impossible to actually collect the loan because he had enough powerful friends to get it nullified by the Patriarch - plus he actually had enough troops loyal to him that pushing the issue might result in a shooting match the bank couldn't win. Kings were always a fertile market for issuing loans, but were rather hard to collect on, and the bank was inadvertently making kings.

Then again, there was some musing that maybe that wasn't such a bad idea. The bank was under no obligation to issue loans to kings other than their own, and having a smaller number of nobles would simplify international relations and weed out the stupid ones that didn't deserve their belongings, long term improving the intelligence of investors and debtors the People would have to deal with. There were however others who suggested that perhaps simply donating some of the land back to the regions they were taken from instead of selling or working it themselves would promote a certain degree of goodwill that would restore faith in the bank. Finally there was a suggestion of reducing the penalties of those who defaulted on their loans, to instead of irreversibly seizing property held as collateral the bank instead of assume stewardship of the finances of their debtors, to ensure the money was repaid as best as possible while still not causing the anger of the forfeiture of ancestral properties.

All of this was of course mixed up in the philosophical and rhetorical battles about the Nature of Man and the Responsibilities of Leadership. Those pushing the philosophical position of absolutism were of course most in favour of continuing current activities, that those who lost their property in the scrupulously fair arrangements of the bank obviously did not deserve in the first place, and the concentration of wealth in the hands of the upper nobility made rule more efficient and absolute. Meanwhile the more humanistic philosophers called for the restoration of 'Natural Order' via the redistribution of seized land, to reduce the suffering of those who were stripped of property or displaced by the consolidation of territory making their activities superfluous. Both the absolutists and the humanists were annoyed by the stewardship position, for being impractical and patronizing, respectively.

Either way, politically something had to be decided upon, because either this was a problem to be fixed or a problem to be endured, and not deciding which it was would killing the bank despite its own success.

Choose a philosophy
[] Absolutism
[] Humanism
[] Stewardship
 
Lightning Round XV
[X] Stewardship

The arguments went back and forth between the king and the Minister of the Treasurer and the President of the Crown Bank and they consulted with scholars and philosophers. Arguments were had, voices raised, ritual unarmed combat engaged in, and in the end two conclusions were reached:

1. A person had some 'natural right' to their property that could not be involuntarily override
2. People also had 'contractual obligations' that interacted with natural rights in complex ways

In the end these two facts could not completely override each other. People had right to not have their property unilaterally stripped from them, but they also had certain obligations that did not get them out of breach of contract. Philosophically taxation rested upon this latter part, something that the king very much agreed had to be true, even if he also did not like the idea that the kingship in of itself was not a natural right but a contractual obligation, like some radicals suggested. The only way to resolve this tension was to take up the unpopular compromise position of stewardship, whereby if a debtor refused to allow their collateral be taken in a failure to repay a loan situation then they could elect to surrender their finances to a Crown approved accountant in order to manage their income and assets until such time that the owed funds might be repaid, plus interest for the additional time taken to recoup the initial loss.

Almost immediately it ran into problems with many soon realizing that they almost preferred poverty to the level of control some of the accountants tried to inflict upon them, as well as some of the more distant accountants soon becoming hopelessly corrupt in skimming funds that were supposed to be going to the bank and/or their wards. This was particularly bad among the more distant Gylruv communities, who were of course the ones who had the most problem with the bank in the first place.

Then a Tortun prince went bankrupt. The initial loan had been issued to aid in the development of a mine and ironworks to refine the ores produced, but then said prince got into a cataclysmic war with a fellow Tortun prince and ended up penniless. Deciding that he preferred to essentially restructure the payment plan and suffer some personal indignity rather than have assets stripped, he surrendered finances to the Crown Bank, at which point the accountants helped restructure and reorder the principality. They were gone within two years, but the remarkable recovery prompted other princes to realize they could essentially buy financial advisers, which prompted a flood of attempts to get loans that the Crown Bank almost immediately had to start turning down en masse because they were being made in obvious bad faith. This however caused the Tortun emperor to freak out and nearly declare war at the 'attempt to steal my subjects away from me!'

This sharply curtailed the ability of the People to safely issue loans to foreigners, and quickly resulted in the option of financial stewardship being removed from any kingdom other than among the People and the Gylruv, and in general the idea quickly died out as a bad plan, although it did give the People considerable experience in how to assess individual and organizational fundamentals, and how to restructure loans when difficulties were encountered.

Most of all though, the philosophical debates that had brought the People to the position that there was a tension between natural rights and contractual obligations rippled out through their academics and philosophies, and through their universities into the wider philosophical conversation going on in and around Syffryn. Among the People the most influenced were the radical abolitionists, who stated that all men possessed natural rights granted by the divine to self-determination that made slavery an abomination towards man and heaven. Furthermore, ideas began to bubble up about the relationship between the ruled and rulers. If a lord had a natural right to the land and a peasant had a natural right to their freedom, then a lord might compel rent only through the contractual fulfillment of obligations such as military protection, educated administration, and food security. A lord who failed in these obligations lost all right to compel their tenants to pay them, and while they could remove their tenants from their land, they also could not compel any new tenants to associate with them.

When applied to them many nobles did not particularly care for the idea, but many kept coming back to it when they considered that this also applied to the king. Soon enough the idea was spreading like wildfire among the low nobility, the ones with enough education to grasp the idea but not so much land that they felt a particular need to always have peasants on hand to work it for them. In fact, as lands were consolidated through Acts and bankruptcies, a sub-class of itinerant labourers had appeared, typically young men who sold their services at times of intense activity such as planting or harvest because they had little prospect of their own farms to work. For many smallholders the idea of contractual relations between them and the people who helped work their land seemed very natural and equitable for all.

However, the most dramatic application of this philosophy came not from the People but from the Halvyni. The Tortun and Vortuga both had ancient claims on the territories of the Halvyni, and had managed to press their claims with considerable vigour. Badly mauled in the most recent conflict, the Halvyni king had essentially sold a number of colonies, including a few in North-Eastern Mahaxia as part of war indemnities. The colonies on the other hand had broken out into open revolt, claiming that their king's failure to protect them now meant that their relationship with him was broken and they were not his to sell. There were several colonies, and while only a few had auctioned off they had all decided to band together, calling themselves the United Provinces of Mahaxia. The Hespranxer, while not happy with the idea of the Vortuga expanding their Mahaxian holdings, also felt that the UPM might be a direct threat to their own North Mahaxian colonies and were taking an aggressive stance that might see them fight everyone if it meant protecting their supplies of gold, sugar, tobacco, coffee, and spices from the Vortuga and radical revolutionaries. The Sketch and Kielmyr both saw this as an opportunity to pounce on confused and unprotected shipping to bloody the noses of their various rivals.

And while too distant to influence things directly, the People did have a few options to take advantage of the situation

What did they do? (Pick two)
[] Vortuga are distracted, blow up their Monsoon Sea trade posts (0.9x)
[] Halvyni are distracted, knock over their Undikus colonies (0.7x)
[] Fan the flames, turn this colonial war into a Syffryn continental war! (1x)
[] Offer cheap credit to the Sketch and Kielmyr to cause more trouble (1.2x)
[] Enemies are distracted, take the time to finish unification with the Gylruv (1.2x)
[] Tortun is distracted, the Gylruv and Styrmyr could bite off eastern provinces! (1x)
[] Whole lot of angry sailors there, they could make great privateers if hired by the right person (1.2x)
[] You know who could use a whole bunch of angry philosophers taking about the obligations of the ruled and their rulers? The patchwork nightmare of provinces that is the Tortun (1.1x)
 
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