Jello_Raptor
(Confirmed Jelly)
- Location
- Left of Center
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
- Location
- Yes.
I would imagine so: not all children survive long enough to become ninja, even if their parents are ninjas.
Jello_Raptor
(Confirmed Jelly)
- Location
- Left of Center
Can ninja have non-chakra-capable children? is probably the better phrasing.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I don't think there's any hard evidence so far either way, but I'd imagine not. I think that most ninja children are at least physically capable of becoming ninja, themselves. It's just a matter of signing up for the Academy --as Hazou does at the start of this quest, somewhat against his mother's will. But with propaganda, culture, and "following in their parents' footsteps," I imagine that most ninja-children at least sign up for the Academy (where they mayor may not washout) rather than not even try for it.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hazō is not aware of any examples of such.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
We should use these in Sealing and Shadow Clone-ing especially. Both can best be done in a room prepared for the purpose. Quiet, isolated, maybe some incense burning...
zap lunch
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Da rules said:
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Pretty sure its done as soon as the new Hokage is announced. Maybe there's something a little ceremonial about it, but I imagine that there are civilian artisans or ninja who are particularly skilled with Earth Techniques that do it. Probably a bit of automatic background action that Hazou was too busy to notice.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Not if Maddie or OliWhail have their way.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I don't think it's happened yet. There hasn't been a lot of time. We haven't discussed it, though.
- Location
- Liverpool
So Chakra manipulation is hereditary, civilians can give birth to ninja, but ninjas together don't having civilian kids. Are there enough ninja-civilian kids to make any observations there? Sounds like within 20 generations or something, all humans will be Chakra humans (or dead). I suggest we do literally nothing with this knowledge, but it is interesting. I wonder if someone will one day be able to give their Chakra capacity onto a civilian 18 generations from now...
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Maybe Chakra has a negative impact on fertility? I mean, as far as Hazou knows (and for all we know, it's the truth) the Sage gave it to humans. So it wasn't part of our natural evolution. So who knows what it could be doing to the human body. Granted, it's been countless generations since then, so evolution would likely play a hand at stacking the deck towards in humanity's favor.
Anyway, it could be that minor amounts (civi to genin) don't really do anything, but then once you get to the upper tiers (chuunin to jonin) you start seeing some abnormalities (bodily, mental, spiritual) that give jonin their eccentric reputation. And once you get into S-class, Kage, and Jinchuuriki levels? Well, they're not exactly shining bastions of human stability. And almost all of the stronger ninja die really, really young --meaning we don't really get to see the longer-term effects of high amounts of chakra on a person.
Of course, that's assuming that Chakra runs on such feeble things like "logic" and "reason." The Naruto universe has a Soft Magic System and though it can be understood to a degree, it's still an inherently mysterious thing that doesn't conform to hard rules. And it seems like MfD is following that trend.
So for all we know, Chakra might be like magic in Harry Potter, where it might vanish from children with no apparent cause, creating a chakra-squib. It might be that Chakra metaphysically "calls" to Chakra --meaning that a ninja is far more apt to marry a fellow ninja, or that ninja-civilian pairing result in Ninja-capable children more often than should be mathematically possible. Or it could be that fetuses that develop around high amounts of ambient Chakra --such as in ninja villages or particularly... wild places in nature --are born with more active coils. Or it could be that celestial bodies such as the stars and the moon have an influence (we don't know if the moon is really the moon or if the stars are really the stars in MfD's iteration of Naruto. Could be tears through our reality and into the Out for all we know. Or the eyes of the hive mind looking down on the EN).
It's a little like Tolkien's magic system in that, although the readers know some stuff about magic, it's often never really all that much.
Who knows? Not us and certainly not Hazou. And I doubt that even Orochimaru really knows. I doubt that he's really care about the more metaphysical/ontological philosophy relating to Chakra. His area of interest --if MfD's iteration hasn't changed this --is practical research and, specifically, physiology/anatomy/biology and bloodlines.
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Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Given that Chakra was given to humanity, it is quite likely creatable, albeit requiring 100 skill points and risking death. Also given that it was given to humanity, it probably does not conform to what we would expect of genetics. Certainly, the massive advantage of chakra would mean that everyone is a ninja (as a general guide, if a mutation makes you better than everyone, eventually everyone will have that mutation, equalizing the field), but the existence of civilians implies that chakra is not properly hereditary.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Note that ninja numbers are extremely low. One estimate that Hazō has seen says that there are something like 10,000 ninja alive right now in the entire world. Consider that most of them die before reproduction and the ones that survive mostly do not marry civilians.
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
Chakra is not quite as adaptive as one would expect. Yes, ninja have amazing capabilities compared to civilians, which normally would make them much better at surviving to reproduce. However, ninja also are much more likely to get into dangerous situations too. Having above average chakra reserves basically guarantees that you will be getting thrown into deadly situations around the time that you first reach reproductive age. Many, many ninja die off on missions before they can reproduce. Overall, the likelihood of dying before reproduction isn't too much greater for a civilian than a ninja (you're right that it's still probably greater though because of disease and stuff).
Furthermore, as far as we've seen, ninja don't have a lot of kids. I don't know if we've met a single clan ninja who has more than one sibling (other than us and our adopted siblings
). Then again, I can't recall seeing any civilians with tons ofchildren/siblings either, so maybe my memory is just bad.Anyway, ninja also don't really marry back into the civilian population much. Other than that one clanless guy who likes to date civilians, it's not very common. This means that the ninja and civilian populations are somewhat isolated from each other genetically, with anyone who has the potential to be chakra capable being effectively removed from the civilian gene pool. Civilian born ninja travel from the civilian gene pool to the ninja gene pool, keeping the populations fairly similar genetically, but very few ninja travel back to the civilian gene pool. Plus, any civilians born from civilian/ninja unions get sent right back into the ninja gene pool if they can develop chakra reserves. This means that ninja genes like high chakra aren't getting into the civilian population the way civilian genes can get into the ninja population.
Another thing is that we don't know how long it's been since chakra was created. It may have been tens of thousands of years or more, but from the sound of it it hasn't been that long.Evolution (usually) works on the scale of millions of years. Humansdon't reproduce that fast, so we won't generally get evolution on a dozen to hundred year time frame the way we can see in insects and bacteria.
Overall, I would say that this situation (along with the fact that civilians clearly haven't gone extinct yet) leads to ninja not completely replacing civilians in the human population, even if chakra is hereditary.
Edit:
I've been Wallace'd!
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- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
IIRC Noburi has two Wakahisa sisters, so it looks like you do see sets of three sometimes.I don't know if we've met a single clan ninja who has more than one sibling (other than us and our adopted siblings
Tua
鸡肉面条汤
- Location
- شوربة الدجاج المعكرونة
He also had an older brother who died.
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
Good point! They're twins too. Still, that seems to be pretty rare.
Since ninja/ninja pairings seem to always produce ninja, it sounds like the gene for having good chakra reserves may be recessive? It would be a pain if there were multiple genes involved. It would be nice to have a bunch of ninja/civilian pairings to analyze, but maybe that'll happen more once uplift starts picking up more steam and ninja start treating civilians more equally.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
On the other hand, I wonder how many ninja Jiraiya has fathered...
e: Actually, hey, @eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail Keeping track of whom he's fucked for future reference as to empowering Konoha totally sounds like a thing that might be in Jiraiya's notes.
Entirely coincidentally this gives us a bunch of minions that we can have as part of our clan without eating adoption tokens.
e2: Minions that we can send to do cool things and punch people without worrying about the quest ending, even.
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- Location
- The state of Paranoia
From the sound of what Kagome's translated so far, it sounds likely that a decent amount of them were civilians, even. We might have a good chance to see the results of civilian/ninja pairings.
- Location
- Yes.
Shikamaru.