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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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I think we could stand to wait a week or two so that folks associate "That pile of useless land that used to be the Shimura estate." with "Oh yeah the Gouketsu live there now."
ContextBot said:
@MMKII , can we ask Asuma for access to Biosealing stuff? We were trying to bully the youthful Hiashi for it, but we don't ask our new friendly Hokage?
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I don't think yanking Asuma's chain at the moment about research clearance (that we wont be able to use for a while) is going to be particularly endearing.

We can make a strong case for many things once shit stops being on fire, but rarely in my experience do people like being bugged about things not immediately relevant to an ongoing crisis during said crisis.
 
ContextBot said:
We can just ask like normal people?

"Hey can I take a look?"

My point wasn't to bully Asuma, just send him a letter with a request.
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Eh, I still don't think it really matters. By all rights, we're about a years away from getting around to doing any BioSealing even if we got the clearance right now -- PotO, SC, Sealing, and various social skills are expensive in aggregate.
 
My bet is biosealing needs 3 stats: MedKnow, Sealing, and either Craftmanship (tattoos) or Craftmanship (needlework)
 
[X] Action Plan: Internal Political Sausage-Making (No Dog Scroll)

[X] Action plan: Who let the dogs out
 
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I want it to be known that I don't think canceling the plague idea is necessary, or wise. The clan heads/regents are all more experienced with Tsunade's opinions and would have brought up herself as an issue if it were one.
 
faflec said:
I want it to be known that I don't think canceling the plague idea is necessary, or wise. The clan heads/regents are all more experienced with Tsunade's opinions and would have brought up herself as an issue if it were one.
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From my understanding we're basically just going to say "so... Tsunade isn't going to be upset with us for this? because I really don't want Tsunade upset with us."
 
I'll make a round or two of edits in approximately 24 hours (and perhaps another one 6 hours or so before the deadline). If anyone would like anything to be edited in or out of my plan, please make a sufficiently convincing argument on the subject within that timeframe and I'll get to it then after throwing everything on the scale.
 
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This plan is generally similar to political sausage making, but focuses more heavily on preventing bio-warfare instead of the politics necessary to establish more adoption slots. Furthermore, we release translated copies of all of Jiraiya's spy-network notes which are relevant to Leaf's national security. Frankly, we don't have the time or resources to establish a spy network on our own, with the war looming, it's better we just hand it off to Asuma and let Leaf re-establish the network as soon as possible.

This plan also has us have a chat with Mari about how she's holding up in general and this bio-warfare suggestion in particular, but has less focus on looting Jiraiya's caches. I feel that the Mari issue is more pressing, and that while we ought to check that the caches are still around in general, we don't urgently need the resources likely stored in them right now.

Let me know what you all think, and feel free to tag me for edits to the plan!
This plan has been deprecated, see #162,529 for the updated version
[] Plan: Pandora's Box Edited
(298 Words)
Run plans by the clan wherever possible
  • ASAP in private with Mari:
    • Talk about Bio-warfare and why we're not okay with it.
    • Ask for her help in convincing others away from plague blankets without harming her credibility
    • Suggest Skywalker assisted bombing runs of Hidden Rock instead
    • Suggest fomenting insurrection within Grass
  • Convince Asuma to veto the plague blankets
    • This is a massive 'fuck you' to Tsunade
    • Bio-warfare can very easily backfire
    • If we engage in Bio-warfare, so will our foes, then everyone loses.
  • First opportunity after meeting:
    • Decide with Mari which of Jiraiya's spy-network notes are useful for Leaf and which we can keep without harming Leaf's NatSec.
    • Unconditionally give Asuma translations of all approved notes.
      • Offer to help re-establish Jiraiya's spy network.
      • Mention Kagome's reaction to sealing sweatshops, ask for better conditions
  • Continue pressure campaign for better sealmaster conditions or working from home
  • Put Ami's suggestions into practice:
    • Carry around a journal to note feelings and emotions
    • Practice daily with Mari on genjutsu
  • When it's convenient
    • Meet allied clans, feel out how they'd react to adoption limit increases.
    • Interview secretarial candidates
    • Find 'skinwastes' to hire for the bank,
      • Optimize for ideological compatibility with uplift
      • Also look for new Genin, particularly civilian born.
    • Meet Noburi's candidates
      • Evaluate:
        • Candidate fit
        • Willingness to join
        • Scope of issues
      • Offer cooperation/auxiliary status regardless of adoption
    • Consult Aburame and Inuzuka on chakra beast farming
    • Loot Swamp of Death cache with Noburi
  • When we have downtime
    • Talk with Mari:
      • Thank her for her work, and for trusting us in general.
      • Talk about morality, get a grasp of her understanding of good/evil.
      • Ask if she'd like some downtime or prefer a different assignment
    • Talk with Keiko, thank her for trusting us with her sister's secret. Express our gratitude for getting us the help we needed
 
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MMKII said:
I'll make a round or two of edits in approximately 24 hours (and perhaps another one 6 hours or so before the deadline). If anyone would like anything to be edited in or out of my plan, please make a sufficiently convincing argument on the subject within that timeframe and I'll get to it then after throwing everything on the scale.
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Have you been sufficiently convinced to remove nixing the plague plan? Because I am willing to re-argue in favor of removing that.
 
MMKII said:
I'll make a round or two of edits in approximately 24 hours (and perhaps another one 6 hours or so before the deadline). If anyone would like anything to be edited in or out of my plan, please make a sufficiently convincing argument on the subject within that timeframe and I'll get to it then after throwing everything on the scale.
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I like the plan in general, although I feel we should give Asuma the resources to take the lead on the spy network thing instead of doing it ourselves. We just don't have the time or resources to establish such a network in any reasonable timeframe, and doing so would require we spend the majority of our time outside of Leaf to maintain it. War is looming, Leaf needs this resource now, and Asuma is more likely to be able to make it happen than we are. Furthermore, the goodwill we earn from this could be leveraged to improve sealing conditions and to get the Hokage's support for raising adoption limits.
 
MMKII said:
Eh, I still don't think it really matters. By all rights, we're about a years away from getting around to doing any BioSealing even if we got the clearance right now -- PotO, SC, Sealing, and various social skills are expensive in aggregate.
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And nothing of this really prevents us from asking? All of our talk and speculation is based on no actual information (Biosealing concerning)? As long as it's not going to eat all of the wordcount, it's not really a problem?

Why can't we ask for a look so that we can try to figure out whats going on?

faflec said:
Kagome isn't compromised, at least to our knowledge.
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You're saying that the sealmaster that experiences multiple timlines isn't a possible OUT entity itself?

You're just a Lupachanzen double agent.
 
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faflec said:
Have you been sufficiently convinced to remove nixing the plague plan? Because I am willing to re-argue in favor of removing that.
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I still don't really care much either way.

By all accounts the current plan proposed is "Plague is good addition to this strategy because... (?) , so we just wont mention this to Ms. Plagues Don't Care About Borders and hope for the best after the fact."

The argument against this is "That seems really dumb to do if you need her cooperation for it, and if you're trying to trick her she might very well punch the shit out of anyone responsible afterwards."

The argument for keeping seems to be "Yeah but they would know that in character tho", which--while true-- has never been a very convincing or appealing argument to me. Nevertheless, it is somewhat compelling in this instance despite my misgivings with the general application of this line of thought.
 
faflec said:
I want it to be known that I don't think canceling the plague idea is necessary, or wise. The clan heads/regents are all more experienced with Tsunade's opinions and would have brought up herself as an issue if it were one.
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I don't think relying on npc's to make the right move is wise here; it seems to me they are more concerned with getting Rock out of Fire than with the consequences of their actions. Tsunade's opinions don't exactly have a ton of subtlety to them - disease is bad and kills everyone, so we should stop it wherever possible regardless of who's infected. Tsunade has already effectively left Leaf once due to dissatisfaction with its medical programs, to descend into outright biological warfare would make her leave for good - and that's not even mentioning that because we suggested it (well Mari did, but she speaks for us and we didn't object) we will be immediately put at the top of Tsunade's shit-list, a place we most definitely do not want to be.
Byzantine said:
From my understanding we're basically just going to say "so... Tsunade isn't going to be upset with us for this? because I really don't want Tsunade upset with us."
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I agree, and that's why I believe we should put more emphasis on trying to stop it - ie. making arguments about how biological warfare is prone to backfiring and how if discovered it will result in massive escalation on all sides, as well as making it clear to Asuma that approving this would be an enormous betrayal of Tsunade's trust.
 
MMKII said:
I still don't really care much either way.

By all accounts the current plan proposed is "Plague is good addition to this strategy because... (?) , so we just wont mention this to Ms. Plagues Don't Care About Borders and hope for the best after the fact."

The argument against this is "That seems really dumb to do if you need her cooperation for it, and if you're trying to trick her she might very well punch the shit out of anyone responsible afterwards."

The argument for keeping seems to be "Yeah but they would know that in character tho", which--while true-- has never been a very convincing or appealing argument to me. Nevertheless, it is somewhat compelling in this instance despite my misgivings with the general application of this line of thought.
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I'll observe that the intent of the plan is to spread disease more to the Rock encampment than to any civilian populations; given Tsunade's pro-civilian bent, she's far less likely to object to infecting an invasion/occupation force than a civilian population.

Jury's still out on how contagious pox or blood fever are, and how long it'll last. That might have consequences for their ability to infect outlying civilian populations. @eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail What does Hazou know about how long an outbreak of pox or blood fever last?
 
faflec said:
I'll observe that the intent of the plan is to spread disease more to the Rock encampment than to any civilian populations; given Tsunade's pro-civilian bent, she's far less likely to object to infecting an invasion/occupation force than a civilian population.
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See, I like this much more than "Proof by Simpsons Did It NPC Competency." , though its still a bit of a shot in the dark wrt guesstimating(reasonable guess though it may be) Aunt Sunny's reaction to things.
 
MMKII said:
See, I like this much more than "Proof by Simpsons Did It NPC Competency." , though its still a bit of a shot in the dark wrt guesstimating(reasonable guess though it may be) Aunt Sunny's reaction to things.
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I'd tend to agree, but for different reasons (we don't know how fucky chakra plagues are).
 
I think it's a good idea to do a sanity check on the NPCs' idea.

If something sounds insane to us, we should try to learn why it isn't insane.
 
faflec said:
I'll observe that the intent of the plan is to spread disease more to the Rock encampment than to any civilian populations; given Tsunade's pro-civilian bent, she's far less likely to object to infecting an invasion/occupation force than a civilian population.
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Tsunade isn't actually pro-civilian though, it'd be more accurate to say that she's anti-disease. While that does make her relatively pro-civilian compared to regular ninja (who range from not caring at all at best, to actively malicious at worst) we shouldn't make the mistake of assuming that's her primary motivation.
 
Rhodes said:
Tsunade isn't actually pro-civilian though, it'd be more accurate to say that she's anti-disease. While that does make her relatively pro-civilian compared to regular ninja (who range from not caring at all at best, to actively malicious at worst) we shouldn't make the mistake of assuming that's her primary motivation.
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She gave us advice on how to help civilians.
 
Kiba said:
She gave us advice on how to help civilians.
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Did she do it unprompted or because we asked her? Besides, improved quality of life generally correlates to reduced disease incidence, so it still fits.

The point I was trying to make was that to assume that Tsunade won't care that we are intentionally spreading disease because the people we are trying to spread the disease to are enemy soldiers strikes me as incredibly deluded.
 
Rhodes said:
Tsunade isn't actually pro-civilian though, it'd be more accurate to say that she's anti-disease. While that does make her relatively pro-civilian compared to regular ninja (who range from not caring at all at best, to actively malicious at worst) we shouldn't make the mistake of assuming that's her primary motivation.
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I disagree, it's more that Tsunade is pro-humanity. She'll treat anyone no matter their starion in life and believes in spreading medical knowledge throughout the world no matter the borders.
 
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