We do kind of need to go under his knife at least once, though, otherwise we remain open to Hidan's blood sense (which outranges RERs). Unless he has a non-bioseal-based solution to blocking the blood sense that he didn't mention before because it's impractical to keep up indefinitely, I guess. I was thinking this would be fine because he wouldn't be leaving active bioseals on us, but I'm now concerned about him having the ability to inflict some kind of chronic disease on us that won't show up until after the assault.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
- Location
- United States
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That sounds a lot like poking at edge cases, citizen.
Oh great, sounds like the QMs don't think we should think about this and I'm sure neither will they.
- Location
- Yes.
I think it's more to do with Hidan's blood sense than Shadow Clone. Like, Shadow Clones have blood, we know that (as @faflec kindly quoted above), but it's chakra-construct blood rather than "real" blood. So the question isn't "do Shadow Clones have blood" but "do Shadow Clones, as chakra constructs, count as having blood for the purposes of Hidan's blood sense".
That said, it might not actually matter. SC only has a 2.5-mile range, RER 2.0 has a 2-kilometre range which converting to miles adds another ~1.25 miles, so we can be at most 3.75 miles away (and we'd actually want to be closer so we can still shoot them if they run directly away from us). That might not be outside Hidan's sensory range, we don't know if "a few miles" is "2-3 miles" or "3-4 miles".
On thinking about it further, I'm less worried about this, since we can tap Tsunade to treat us if needed and I doubt Oro can give us anything she can't fix without leaving active bioseals on us (which we can most likely check for). But yeah, it's not great.
- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
While I'm not personally worried about taking a bioseal, the people who are worried aren't worried about what's going to happen in a few months. They're worried about what's going to happen five minutes after the Akatsuki are ash.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
Eh, just speaking for myself... it's a bit of a mix. It's more of an ongoing process of asking ourselves 'Does Orochimaru's reasons for wanting us dead (or otherwise under his direct and overwhelming control) (and those reasons definitely exist, regardless of anything else) outweigh Orochimaru's reasons for keeping us alive (and free)?' and doing everything we can to keep the answer of that question looking favorable.
Okay so that became a bit of a word salad, but basically we have to worry about now, 5 minutes from now, 5 hours from now, 5 days from now, 5 weeks from now, and 5 months from now, with 'now' being defined as the moment of the meeting. shouldn't focus too much on one part and leave ourselves open to another time.
Direct response over, this is just me continuing the line of thought now:
- Will Orochimaru immediately try to kill us? Unlikely but possible.
- Will Orochimaru try to make Hazo's death look like an accident during or after the assault? More much likely, need deterrence to ensure this doesn't happen
- Will Orochimaru acknowledge Hazo as a legitimate threat at any point in the future, and want to have any sort of insurance in place to prevent Hazo's political or destructive powers from being used against him later? Almost definitely, though this could take so many different forms it's impossible to address all of them, so we need to focus on the possibilities which are most harmful to Hazo and his goals.
- Possibilities that have been raised include mind control, emotion control, dependency, depowering, all of which become (hypothetically) possible or even just easier if Orochimaru has us on a surgery table
- Counter arguments are that surgery is already necessary, and that Tsunade or Hazo's future skills will be able to counter anything Orochimaru does to us
And basically... Nobody has the energy to think of every possible path forward and handle all of the variations that might come up. The fact that we need to counter Hidan's blood sense is unfortunate, because the argument that Hazo or Tsunade can or would even want to undo whatever Orochimaru might be willing to do to Hazo is unconvincing. All Orochimaru has to do is whisper about the destructive power of Runes into Tsunade's ears and he might be able to convince her that Hazo is better off as an idealistic civilian (Or lobotomized assistant surgeon, lol) instead of being able to keep inventing WMDs every time some out-inspired nightmare strikes in the dead of night.
I guess, if Leaf has access to a portal to the land of the dead, and leaf's S-rankers are brought back, and there are those like Jiraiya, Kei and Naruto who are willing to keep fighting for the ideals of uplift, then I'm willing to take the risk of Hazo losing his... anything, really. His strength, his influence, even his life. Fact is that Hazo doesn't need to personally lead the world into a golden age, he just needs to show that path of peace to be possible which is what we're hoping this rift war might lead towards. Overwhelming military domination counts as world peace, right?
- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Sure.
I suppose I could have been clearer: saying we can learn biosealing and remove it or ask Tsunade for help does not really address one of the biggest risks associated with getting a bioseal from Orochimaru, which is what happens immediately after the battle.
I don't think the five minutes case is really the problem - that just makes it easier for Oro to kill us after the assault, which frankly he can do anyway. Getting him not to do that has always been about incentives, not ability. The thing that worries me is what might happen, say, two months after the battle.
Or even six months. Even if we dropped all our other build plans to learn biosealing ASAP, we'd need to eat the medical notes to get the prerequisites (and we still wouldn't have Carving) and that would put us past a Combat barrier, a Sealing barrier, and pretty close to another Combat barrier. We'd be at 0.1x our XP rate, even with full FOOM it would take us months to even earn enough XP to buy the stunt, let alone actually level the skill to the point of being able to understand and dismantle an Orochimaru-made bioseal.
Edit: Not to mention, who's going to teach us biosealing? In Leaf, there's Oro himself, Kabuto, and … Sarutobi Fumi, I think? And it sounds like she might not be good enough at it to teach it.
There might be others, but if there are Asuma didn't mention them.
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Just FYI everyone, the unanswered questions about deadlifiting the rune blanks and the stunt that must not be named means I won't be posting my plan until Sunday night at the earliest.
EDIT: and the superchiller rolls.
I'll be voting for a lore update probably
EDIT: and the superchiller rolls.
I'll be voting for a lore update probably
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Hmmm. But that means that Itachi also wouldn't have shadow clones...
- Location
- USA
Can you link to questions with context?
Sure thing, @eaglejarl told us not to poke the stunt that must not be named, so I am not going to do that without explicit permission.
The deadlifting thing is as follows:
Originalish post
EJ's response
My response to EJ
Waiting for Superchiller results (there was another Easy Rune too)
- Location
- Texas
I am once again asking for your financial support ACE rulings, @eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
Some of us have made a timeline of the relevant posts as we players best understand what has happened over the past... four years or so regarding ACE. I have done my best to attach a chapter, irl date, and IC date to each post.
I believe most of this information has already been presented to the QMs, but not in this format. It is my hope that with all the facts present we can settle the issue for good.
Some of us have made a timeline of the relevant posts as we players best understand what has happened over the past... four years or so regarding ACE. I have done my best to attach a chapter, irl date, and IC date to each post.
- (Chapter 314, February 27th 1069 AS, December 29th 2019) Asuma held a contest for various clans to contribute various jutsu and knowledge to become publicly available for the general welfare of Leaf.
- (Chapter 350, April 16th 1069 AS, June 14th 2020) This contest ended IC, and the QMs weren't done fleshing out everything that had been contributed OOC.
- (Before Chapter 358, June 6th 1069 AS, July 22nd 2020) The QMs posted the narrative description of ACE one day before Chapter 358 and confirmed it had been made available earlier, during the contest.
- (Chapter 360, July 22nd 1069 AS, July 31st 2020) Voting does not occur for Chapter 359 as it is an interlude. Voting opens for Chapter 360, Oneiros writes a winning plan which includes having Noburi check with the Akimichi if ACE works for him.
- (Chapter 360 voting cycle, July 22nd 1069 AS, July 23rd 2020) Faflec writes in a Training Plan to purchase ACE immediately and is given two responses from Eaglejarl, ultimately implying that we can vote in the training plan after the year of ACE exercises are complete. Those plans are scrapped.
- (Chapter 361, July 22nd 1069 AS, August 2nd 2020) In Chapter 361, the QMs posted the mechanics for ACE and stated that Team Uplift IC was uncertain how it would interact with the Vampiric Dew, so they have Noburi check with the Akimichi.
- (Chapter 371, August 6th, 1069 AS, September 13th 2020) Velorien confirms IC that Noburi is training ACE and will not see any payoff until the year of exercises is complete.
- (After Chapter 371, August 6th 1069 AS, September 15th 2020) Velorien edits a comment to rule that ACE must be paid for ahead of time. This edit is not seen and the ruling has not been followed to present day.
- (Before Chapter 445, November 5th 1069 AS, July 3rd 2021) Velorien answers in thread that only Noburi has been training ACE. There had been no previous comment or indication that the rest of Uplift had neglected to start. For ease of bookkeeping, the Hivemind chooses to delay the rest of Uplift's ACE date to coincide with Noburi's.
- (In Discord, ~February 12th 1070 AS, December 16th 2021) Eaglejarl answers that Noburi's ACE date is in April.
- (Chapter 513, April 16th 1070 AS, May 2nd 2022) Noburi finishes his first round of ACE training. ProperAttorney writes a winning plan telling Uplift to begin training ACE.
- The quest proceeds for two and a half years..
- Due to Temporal Rune use, the PC's ACE date moves up and the players ask the QMs when ACE is now due. This prompts Paper to do an audit on ACE.
- Paper's audit results in a QM post pushing forward the ACE date several months and asking for the players to provide further information if any is available.
- As soon as ACE is retroactively added to the story, we have Noburi check with the Akmichi that he can train it.
- There is conflicting information on how to properly vote a training plan for ACE in.
- As a result of that conflicting information, no training plan is voted in for ACE.
- The QMs interpret that as only Noburi training ACE for that first year.
- The players accept that and explicitly vote in a plan to train ACE, on the same date as Noburi's to lessen bookkeeping overhead.
I believe most of this information has already been presented to the QMs, but not in this format. It is my hope that with all the facts present we can settle the issue for good.
- Location
- USA
I take it, by this plan passing, that there is no interest in the XP-rewind?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We love gambling
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
I have been known to play the occasional gacha game
- Location
- United States
We appear to want to gamble that CR 39 will be enough to summon Cannai.
Should give us 624 CP (assuming Overdraw and such go off baseline reserves unmodified by ACE as you indicated on Discord).
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Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
If this is a Monty Hall problem and we are not changing which door we chose, the Hivemind is NEVER going to hear the end of it.
The trouble is that there's nothing (in my understanding of the rules) that we could spend 558(?) XP on that would make Hazo survive a single round in open combat with Akatsuki. So the XP we get back from CR can't realistically be put into combat stats.
Other plans:
Training Plan: Rune Slave
+ Earthshaping from 50 (current) -> 60 (555 XP)
* this is Hazo's "calligraphy" stat for runes afaik. We should try and avoid infusion failures when prepping for the attack. If Hazo can carve runes flawlessly then maybe Oro will let him survive the next 5 months.
Training Plan: Fiscal independence
+ BoC from 1 (current) -> 46 (540.5 XP assuming 1/2 cost due to ES being an earth jutsu at higher level)
* Hazo needs to be able to make substrate and this is the specific jutsu to do that.
Training Plan: Social Smoothing
+ Deceit from 24 (current) -> 40 (520 XP)
* Shrimply lie to Oro about how much we have prepared for the attack
Training Plan: Minatosealing:
+ Technique Hacking from 11 -> 35 (575 XP)
* I believe there are TH notes we haven't eaten because of Stagnancy rules. But after rolling back CR, this plan would need 190 XP to get to TH 40 and then 125XP to lock in the Minatosealing Stunt.
Training Plan: save for Lightning
+ what if we didn't spend any of it and just saved for the Lightning + SotS build?
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- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Sorry, asexual characters are not purchasable with XP... they can, however, be bribed to come out of the ether if you have sufficient quantities of garlic bread, cake, and/or caffeinated beverages.