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Dragon Ball: After the End

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fictionfan said:
If we has not gone super Saiyan then we have time.

Also we could really use another Super Saiyan against the Dragon.
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Okay, but I strongly suspect Berra would be like NO WAY to this, and he is far better plugged into the political implications than us. Let's... keep the idea and consider it, but not right right away until we have a clue what he did and how, and until Lord Berra has at least had some words on the politics.

Gore17 said:
Hmmm....

As bad as this is, would we have become aware of this anytime soon without the fight? If so, that's a silver lining.
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Agreed. More generally, I feel like this illustrates the advantages of saying "yes" in a role-playing game; things happen. Sure, some of them are bad outcomes, but they're interestingly bad, not boringly so.

The Fourth Monado said:
Ultra Instinct... doesn't work like that.

t's 'your body moves in the optimal way with no input from your mind'. It's not a matter of "I can't keep up" if you access it, its 'Your body reacts in enough time so that you can dodge or attack the enemy, even if you are unable to consciously follow them".

What limitations it has are all stamina issues, not 'it can't keep up' issues.
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So... basically it's causality-breaking, in that you anticipate attacks before they are launched if that's what it takes to get your body out of the way in time? Like, if a merely ordinary human with no enhanced speed were shot at with a gun, Ultra Instinct would cause them to start stepping out of the way of the bullet before the trigger was pulled, so as to dodge it?
 
Simon_Jester said:
Okay, but I strongly suspect Berra would be like NO WAY to this, and he is far better plugged into the political implications than us. Let's... keep the idea and consider it, but not right right away until we have a clue what he did and how, and until Lord Berra has at least had some words on the politics.

Agreed. More generally, I feel like this illustrates the advantages of saying "yes" in a role-playing game; things happen. Sure, some of them are bad outcomes, but they're interestingly bad, not boringly so.

So... basically it's causality-breaking, in that you anticipate attacks before they are launched if that's what it takes to get your body out of the way in time? Like, if a merely ordinary human with no enhanced speed were shot at with a gun, Ultra Instinct would cause them to start stepping out of the way of the bullet before the trigger was pulled, so as to dodge it?
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Not just that, but also reacting in advance to how the gunman will react to them dodging.
 
If there is someone running around with mind control abilities (as was speculated due to the prison break) its a very good thing that we found tabe before he could be flipped.
 
It sounds like ultra Instinct is an application of the sight. I have not watched super.
 
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Carrnage said:
If there is someone running around with mind control abilities (as was speculated due to the prison break) its a very good thing that we found tabe before he could be flipped.
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You are super-right, because he would NOT be a good person to have turned against us. Among other things because if he actually did break the law and go super-saiyan and fight us, he might very well win.

plotvitalnpc said:
Not just that, but also reacting in advance to how the gunman will react to them dodging.
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Krillinvoice:

"HACKS! I CALL HACKS!"

While we're doing character impersonations, on the subject of the recent update:

Mitsuba:

"squeeeeeeee..."

She has her reasons.
 
Simon_Jester said:
So... basically it's causality-breaking, in that you anticipate attacks before they are launched if that's what it takes to get your body out of the way in time? Like, if a merely ordinary human with no enhanced speed were shot at with a gun, Ultra Instinct would cause them to start stepping out of the way of the bullet before the trigger was pulled, so as to dodge it?
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It's not casualty-breaking. To use other anime examples, it's basically a mixture of Hyper-Instinct from Katekyo Hitman Reborn and Auto-Pilot from Medaka Box. A martial artist becomes so good at fighting that they can read the combat situation perfectly, and then act/react in the most efficient way needed. And this is all instinctive, without thinking about it.

There isn't an explicit increase in speed or power, but they can use what they have so well that it doesn't really matter. It's less of a supermode and more reaching a certain mindset and level of skill.
 
Quest said:
It's not casualty-breaking. To use other anime examples, it's basically a mixture of Hyper-Instinct from Katekyo Hitman Reborn and Auto-Pilot from Medaka Box. A martial artist becomes so good at fighting that they can read the combat situation perfectly, and then act/react in the most efficient way needed. And this is all instinctive, without thinking about it.

There isn't an explicit increase in speed or power, but they can use what they have so well that it doesn't really matter. It's less of a supermode and more reaching a certain mindset and level of skill.
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So what happens if you have both ultra instinct and the sight?
 
Anyway i am thinking

[X] Enthusiastically congratulate him on a good match and a cool trick and help him to his feet. Everybody look at the cheerful bubbly Scion. No need to think about what that trick was. Yes. You will lead him out of sight and ask what the fuck that was in private. This is not the place. If any people haven't realized the implications of this yet, you're not helping them do it.
-[X] Telepath dad co-ordinating to keep the crowd from jumping to many unpleasant conclusions and ensure that the family doesn't panic while you figure out tabe.
 
It is a good thing that we figured out GO when we did and raised the general royal power level.

I guess that the ideas behind Jaffur style is not just Jaffur being a genius, but an idea whose time has come.
 
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fictionfan said:
So what happens if you have both ultra instinct and the sight?
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Quest said:
Path to Victory?

For the battle anyway.
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Haha no. Taka is an experienced Seer and still has to practically clock out from the battle to use the sight for any active application other than, like, seeing the truth. Sight is limited in use, which you should already know from Carrick talking, limited in accuracy/reliability, and fails in the face of, among other things, various magics and gods. Using Sight can basically only answer for singular questions, to boot- I don't get to use the sight to check every one of several courses of action I want to take in parallel.

Seers can do a 'passive' use of future sight dealy, where they intuit correct answers type of thing, but it's explicitly an advanced skill. Pretty sure that's cropped up here already.

Honestly, I doubt combining the two would have any particular synergy, from what I understand, beyond limited value from being able to truth sight to see through illusions, and that's assuming Ultra Instinct doesn't de facto cover that.
 
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Terrabrand said:
Haha no. Taka is an experienced Seer and still has to practically clock out from the battle to use the sight for any active application other than, like, seeing the truth. Sight is limited in use, which you should already know from Carrick talking, limited in accuracy/reliability, and fails in the face of, among other things, various magics and gods. Using Sight can basically only answer for singular questions, to boot- I don't get to use the sight to check every one of several courses of action I want to take in parallel.

Seers can do a 'passive' use of future sight dealy, where they intuit correct answers type of thing, but it' explicitly an advanced skill. Pretty sure that's cropped up here already.

Honestly, I doubt combining the two would have any particular synergy, from what I understand, beyond limited value from being able to truth sight to see through illusions, and that's assuming Ultra Instinct doesn't de facto cover that.
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Unless he is a perfected super saiyan i doubt his ability maps to kakara any better than a sorceror can map to jaffur's magic
 
[ ] Enthusiastically congratulate him on a good match and a cool trick and help him to his feet. Everybody look at the cheerful bubbly Scion. No need to think about what that trick was. Yes. You will lead him out of sight and ask what the fuck that was in private. This is not the place. If any people haven't realized the implications of this yet, you're not helping them do it.

He didn't go super saiyan, so legally he's fine. This will hopefully keep Berra from putting him in the slammer and we could really use this trick against the dragon if it's compatible with Super Saiyan.
 
you know, the best part about all this is that people, unable to grow upwards past a certain limit, are instead looking sideways - like Jaffur's trick, and now this

I wonder how many more sideways transformations and techniques lie hidden, unmentioned by Exile society as a whole?
 
Carrnage said:
Unless he is a perfected super saiyan i doubt his ability maps to kakara any better than a sorceror can map to jaffur's magic
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Taka is human. It was also made 100% clear the Sight is identical across species. You're right, Taka's Sight won't map to Kakara... Because he has ~31 years of experience with it. Sure, sooner or later Kakara will probably manage things Taka hasn't or maybe even can't, but to pretend that being a Super Saiyan somehow is gonna be better than being a powerful human Seer is misunderstanding things deeply.

As a reminder, Jaffur's ability to do things normal Sorceror's can't is a matter of a high power level to push with, not Super Saiyan being somehow special. Certainly, Taka, for the moment, is 'only' 40m, but then a five fold increase in his power level did not cause his sight to explode into being vastly superior.
 
The Fourth Monado said:
you know, the best part about all this is that people, unable to grow upwards past a certain limit, are instead looking sideways - like Jaffur's trick, and now this

I wonder how many more sideways transformations and techniques lie hidden, unmentioned by Exile society as a whole?
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what i'm wondering is how many are mutually exclusive and whether the ones that aren't stack multiplicatively or additively.
 
Terrabrand said:
Taka is human. It was also made 100% clear the Sight is identical across species. You're right, Taka's Sight won't map to Kakara... Because he has ~31 years of experience with it. Sure, sooner or later Kakara will probably manage things Taka hasn't or maybe even can't, but to pretend that being a Super Saiyan somehow is gonna be better than being a powerful human Seer is misunderstanding things deeply.

As a reminder, Jaffur's ability to do things normal Sorceror's can't is a matter of a high power level to push with, not Super Saiyan being somehow special. Certainly, Taka, for the moment, is 'only' 40m, but then a five fold increase in his power level did not cause his sight to explode into being vastly superior.
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Super saiyan doesn't just buff powerlevel it also buffs life force making kikoho and similar techniques more effective.
 
Terrabrand said:
Haha no. Taka is an experienced Seer and still has to practically clock out from the battle to use the sight for any active application other than, like, seeing the truth. Sight is limited in use, which you should already know from Carrick talking, limited in accuracy/reliability, and fails in the face of, among other things, various magics and gods. Using Sight can basically only answer for singular questions, to boot- I don't get to use the sight to check every one of several courses of action I want to take in parallel.

Seers can do a 'passive' use of future sight dealy, where they intuit correct answers type of thing, but it' explicitly an advanced skill. Pretty sure that's cropped up here already.

Honestly, I doubt combining the two would have any particular synergy, from what I understand, beyond limited value from being able to truth sight to see through illusions, and that's assuming Ultra Instinct doesn't de facto cover that.
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I keep up with the RP and when I was talking about using the Sight in combat, I was implicitly referring to Combat Precognition.

On the synergy: Th ability instinctively know the best 'path' to take in combat and the ability to react perfectly, without thinking in combat. Do you really not see the synergy between these skills? Any user of both would be invincible.
 
The Fourth Monado said:
you know, the best part about all this is that people, unable to grow upwards past a certain limit, are instead looking sideways - like Jaffur's trick, and now this

I wonder how many more sideways transformations and techniques lie hidden, unmentioned by Exile society as a whole?
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Yeah, Cynthia is currently saying to her father, "If we have any secret techniques like that, I need to know them."
 
[ ] Enthusiastically congratulate him on a good match and a cool trick and help him to his feet. Everybody look at the cheerful bubbly Scion. No need to think about what that trick was. Yes. You will lead him out of sight and ask what the fuck that was in private. This is not the place. If any people haven't realized the implications of this yet, you're not helping them do it.
-[]well you do so have your aura go into Jaffur style. Complement him on taking it farther than you have yet.

That way its Tabe knows a cool trick, but no need to panic the royals know it as well. The balance of power is the same as ever.
 
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Quest said:
I keep up with the RP and when I was talking about using the Sight in combat, I was implicitly referring to Combat Precognition.

On the synergy: Th ability instinctively know the best 'path' to take in combat and the ability to react perfectly, without thinking in combat. Do you really not see the synergy between these skills? Any user of both would be invincible.
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You are assuming that having 'perfected combat instincts', which if I'm following correctly basically summarizes Ultra Instinct, would be compatible with 'listening' to our sight. Furthermore, even if it is, given our probable end goal is the Enemy who we know has anti sight measures, I'd call any plan to build Kakara's fighting style around the sight itself actively suicidal.

We should focus on the ridiculous social and intel operation advantages represented by it, frankly. Past Sight checks of suspicious events and more.

Carrnage said:
Super saiyan doesn't just buff powerlevel it also buffs life force making kikoho and similar techniques more effective.
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This is almost certainly irrelevant to the Sight. The Sight uses it's own pool, not life force, and it's absurd to assume that Super Saiyan necessarily boosts all specialties. Sure, maybe it boosts the Sight, possibly. I can't definitively rule that out. But to simply assume that of course Super Saiyans are better than even exceptional instances of all other species at all fields is insane.
 
fictionfan said:
That way its Tabe knows a cool trick, but no need to panic the royals know it to. The balance of power is the same as ever.
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Have you considered the political implications of using Jaffur's personal Style in front of all the Exiles? It would be a statement on much more than just this particular moment, what with the sealing.

It would also piss off Dandeer.
 
Quest said:
Have you considered the political implications of using Jaffur's personal Style in front of all the Exiles? It would be a statement on much more than just this particular moment, what with the sealing.

It would also piss off Dandeer.
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She is already so pissed off that more pissed off is in our favor. If we piss her off enough then she might attack quickly rather than waiting for the moment we are most vunerable.

Also most Saiyans have not seen his style.
 
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