Voting is open
Doing some research, King Vegeta being the same one to win the war with the Tuffles comes from "Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans" an OVA Special. Which given how other OVA specials tend to be in other anime, is even more dubiously canon than the movies.

So I'm changing it back to multiple king vegetas.
 
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Elsewhere and Elsewhen​

"Why? Why would you do it Dr. Raichi? Why would you attack so many Time Patrollers?"

"You of all people have the unmitigated gall to ask that? You! Hah, I only killed Saiyans."

"Why!"

"Did you know that I honestly believed that you wanted only to protect time? For such a worthy cause as that, even I could put my hatred aside. After all, what is one species compared to the entire universe?"

"..."

"But you are just like the rest of your miserable species, a liar and a scoundrel. You aren't a neutral defender of cause and effect! You have a political agenda! And you'll twist time into a pretzel to achieve it."

"That's not true."

"Oh? Then the Saiyans weren't supposed to end with you? You and Cell, your escapades through time are the cause of constant damage to the timeline. Even when there are no attackers, time bleeds."

"..."

"Oh yes, and from the look on your face you know it too. All those shards of altered time from every age, all those parallel quests. Every single one of those openings for demons and magicians and scientists of ill intent. All of them are your fault."

"The Supreme Kai says..."

"CHRONOA IS DESPERATELY LONELY AND YOU KNOW IT! And you are taking shameless advantage of it."

"... that the timeline is better protected than ever, with the time patrol on the job."

"..."

"Look, Doctor, you're going to have to be punished for this. Maybe even executed."

"No, I don't think I will."

"Explain."

"Did you think my doctorate was for nothing boy? I have contingences. But don't worry, I won't work to attack the timeline, indeed, my ultimate aim is to correct the damage you have done! The time patrol has no need to fear my actions, only the damn dirty monkeys that killed my people."

And then, suddenly, Trunks was alone in the holding cell, Dr Raichi gone as if he was never there.
 
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Elsewhere and Elsewhen​

"Why? Why would you do it Dr. Raichi? Why would you attack so many Time Patrollers?"

"You of all people have the unmitigated gall to ask that? You! Hah, I only killed Saiyans."

"Why!"

"Did you know that I honestly believed that you wanted only to protect time? For such a worthy cause as that, even I could put my hatred aside. After all, what is one species compared to the entire universe?"

"..."

"But you are just like the rest of your miserable species, a liar and a scoundrel. You aren't a neutral defender of cause and effect! You have a political agenda! And you'll twist time into a pretzel to achieve it."

"That's not true."

"Oh? Then the Saiyans weren't supposed to end with you? You and Cell, your escapades through time are the cause of constant damage to the timeline. Even when there are no attackers, time bleeds."

"..."

"Oh yes, and from the look on your face you know it too. All those shards of altered time from every age, all those parallel quests. Every single one of those openings for demons and magicians and scientists of ill intent. All of them are your fault."

"The Supreme Kai says..."

"CHORONA IS DESPERATELY LONELY AND YOU KNOW IT! And you are taking shameless advantage of it."

"... that the timeline is better protected than ever, with the time patrol on the job."

"..."

"Look, Doctor, you're going to have to be punished for this. Maybe even executed."

"No, I don't think I will."

"Explain."

"Did you think my doctorate was for nothing boy? I have contingencies. But don't worry, I won't work to attack the timeline, indeed, my ultimate aim is to correct the damage you have done! The time patrol has no need to fear my actions, only the damn dirty monkeys that killed my people."

And then, suddenly, Trunks was alone in the holding cell, Dr Raichi gone as if he was never there.
I know what you are doing...

...And I must say, I approve.

But it won't be enough to get him to show up.
 
Doing some research, King Vegeta being the same one to win the war with the Tuffles comes from "Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans" an OVA Special. Which given how other OVA specials tend to be in other anime, is even more dubiously canon than the movies.

So I'm changing it back to multiple king vegetas.
Seriously? It was from there? That's really weird, because I never watched that OVA for its sin of never getting dubbed, leaving us with the awful Japanese voices.

Even if King Vegeta's connection to the Tuffles was incorrect, it was him who pledged allegiance to Frieza and thus the only Saiyan king to serve him.
 
Even if King Vegeta's connection to the Tuffles was incorrect, it was him who pledged allegiance to Frieza and thus the only Saiyan king to serve him.

See, I couldn't find a source for that. It is the only possible result if you take the OVA as accurate history regarding the war with the Tuffles, but otherwise...
 
This is fallacious. In the real world, we can build armor to hold up to light caliber guns, so why don't we have armor that shrugs off tank shells and nukes?

Not everything is infinitely scaling, it's entirely possible that, for whatever reason, it's not possible to strengthen the wards to hold up to much more than they already do- in which case SSJ2 with it's massive power boost is entirely out of the question.
There's only so much you can do to armor up somthing mobile before it's to heavy to move, but a static location? When the payoff is stronger Scions in the event of an invasion?

While SS2 is far greater than SS1 it should still well within their capabilities to hide given enough time and effort. And if they can't why aren't they researching how?
 
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Man, get people off of the "Brace for the update" countdown and the thread goes nuts. :D

I presume you mean if it proceeded without any drama?

Derp. Yes.

Oh shit. You have my condolences. Take as much time as you need.

Thank you. :)

Though that doesn't explain why people haven't tried for Godhood.

I mean, culturally I can see why, but Divine Ki is functionally undetectable.

We dunno what the enemy is or can do, though. They might be able to detect it.

If they can build wards that can stand up to the current scions why not better ones? Sure it would take a lot of time and effort but they've been on the planet more than long enough. It may be in the background but I'm not seeing any indication that they're working on better one so the Scions can train to higher levels in safety. If anything it seems like they're satisfied with the status quo.

Rather than quote the entirety of the discussion involved here, I've quoted the main participants to avoid comment bloat. This is already going to be a long one.

In general, like sound, the more source there is to ki, the farther it travels and the "louder" it is. That's one reason. Everything living can sense ki if it cares to learn; they would be felt at SSJ2 levels and above, let alone SSJ3. As for the god forms, while the number of suspects able to sense divine ki is less, it's not none, and the Exiles don't know if everybody on that list can be trusted. Plus, the Enemy might be able to sense it. They don't know, and are terrified of how much they don't know.

Why don't they shield it? Well, they could, feasibly. In fact, they've been trying. But in this case, the wards they have run up against limitations in infrastructure. They can't support themselves at greater magnitudes, and collapse under their own weight. The Great Question of Sorcery for the past couple of centuries has been, "how do you make a stronger ki shield?" And it's a question that remains unanswered. They know it's possible -- Bulma figured out a tech solution, after all -- they simply haven't cracked the theory on it. As is, the shielding can contain SSJ1 levels of power with around 150 million units of safety margin. They're trying to build a skyscraper without any knowledge of the involved technologies that would make that possible.

Thus, they don't dare try for more, and enforce that with lethal consequences. A Saiyan who made the second transformation would be public enemy number one. In fact, it's taken so seriously that as a standing rule, the standing reward for bringing down an SSJ2 is a Lordship -- the right to create a third Saiyan Clan and draw volunteers to join it from the other two, along with the right to transform. Because even SSJ2 can be sensed on the interstellar scale. When you're playing in leagues that reduce solar systems to ash, you're as noticeable as the hypernovas IRL that do the same. Anything beyond mastered SSJ is begging for attention -- in fact, the fact that your Dad was out of the Hall, fully transformed, in the Sealing, was the wake-up call for the Clans that it wasn't just two crazy kids messing around. In the instant that Berra left the Hall, shining a beacon that could be sensed from the nearest stellar neighbors, the Clans started preparing for war. Because the last time they sensed that, he and Vegeta were trying to kill each other.

And SSJ2 casts that presence even further out. The Senzus mount occasional expeditions to check the neighboring systems, and they're abandoned. Have been since the Exile began. The ones beyond that? Not so much. They don't have settlements, but they have traffic. And the instant some random schmuck sensed something like that, the rumor would spread like wildfire, and the Exiles would be in a mad dash to somehow do in months or single-digit years what the Z Fighters couldn't do in decades -- surpass Super Saiyan God, and gain the strength needed to slay the Enemy.

So...yeah. Consider this your notice: transform to SSJ2? You're starting that clock. And I won't narrow down whether it'll be months or nine years until you make that call.

While researching the thread for reasons, I noticed this.

Which is it? You said we do have it, re-invented, early in the thread, but more recently said we don't.

A bit of early-installment weirdness that I hoped nobody would notice. I realized how unrealistic them developing the Spirit Bomb would be considering that apparently none of the Z Fighters could given years and an exact understanding of its principles, so it's a lesser retcon.

I'm wondering what happens if you achieve Super Saiyan 2 in a blind rage like Gohan.

Ever been on an angry bender in an enclosed space with somebody you loathe present and a lot of breakable objects?

That. Except the room is Garenhuld, and the walls are made of glass.

@PoptartProdigy

Can we carry a capsule with body armour in it? After the Final Flash, Cell hit Vegeta so hard in the back that it knocked the Super Saiyan out of him when he hit the ground but his armour wasn't even cracked, so it's durable enough to have at least some protection even at our approximate power level.

On that same note, can we carry sunglasses around? Solar Flare is a bitch when used against you and sunglasses stop it dead in its tracks.

What does increasing Ki Projections/Talents as a whole do? Just provide bonuses to training the skills under them?

If we were to fight two people who were each half as powerful as us at once, would it be more efficient to use Multiform so that we can use Duelling instead of Crowd Fighting?

Goku learned a kind of battle precognition in Korin Tower that didn't rely on ki or sorcery. Any chance we could do the same, except we use our exceptional ki sense/control to boost its potency?

Yes!

Yes!

Makes it easier to grind them, and new skills you gain there start at a higher level.

Yes! But depending on the shape of the fight you might wind up instead testing against Team Fighting, so controlling the battlefield would be ki. (imnotsorry) :D

I'll...get back to you on that.

Excerpts from "A Military History of the Role of Champion Mutants in Galactic Warfare".


Although it would seem strange to modern ears, for the majority of Galactic History, Champions served a primarily defensive role. Current theories of course emphasize the offensive potential of Champions, but the primarily defensive use of Champions arose from a confluence of factors:

Firstly; the relative rarity of champions. When a principality has at most one or two champions to it's name then it makes sense to focus them on defensive roles. Champions are defined by their ability to take entire armies at once, and ensuring that the political center (usually a prince or elected official) was safe from other armies or assassins usually took precedence over their more offensive uses.

Secondly; the inability of champions to make effective use of ground. Unlike an army, a champion can only be in one place at a time and can only pay attention to a relatively small number of things at once. To ensure a conquered population doesn't rebel and keeps producing and paying taxes requires an army, which can be in many places at once and can pay attention to many things at once. Thus in eras where the capture of populations or economic infrastructure are the aims of war, rather than just looting existing riches, an offensive use of Champions are contraindicated. As most space faring populations are industrialized societies, this covered most interplanetary forms of warfare.



The status of the Galactic Patrol as the only large scale group of champions was for many millenia the core of the Galactic King's power and influence.



The arrival of the Saiyans to the galactic scene upended the previously prevailing conventional wisdom on the use of champions. While small in number compared to most space faring species, the Saiyans were unique in that all of them were on the level of champions from the perspective of other races.

When the Saiyans went to war as a society against another polity, as against the Histians, the offensive potential of champions was amply demonstrated for the galaxy to see. In this author's opinion, however, the more influential aspect of the Saiyan presence was their penchant for acting as mercenaries.

With the supply of Champions greatly increased, the ability to use them offensively likewise increased. While the defensive use of champions remained, and indeed many Saiyan mercenaries were hired to counter other Saiyan mercenaries, many times the Saiyans were hired in the first place to devastate enemy lines and allow armies to exploit the created openings.



The military theories of this era most resemble our modern ones, as in this era most polities sought to make use of territories they conquered. In our own time the self proclaimed Emperor Frigid is a warlord in this vein, which is very different from that of his ancestor King Cooler's brother Freeza, who I shall examine in a later chapter.



The high prices commanded by Saiyan mercenaries also enticed many champions to form their own mercenary groups. This would lay the groundwork for what came later.



The deathknell of the defensive use of Champions came with the rise of the Planetary Trade Organization. While entire books can and have been written on Lord Freeza's real estate scam, we are here interested in only it's military implications. I will however provide a simplified explanation of it's mode of operation for those who are not already familiar with it.

As Freeza had little interest in keeping the territory his underlings conquered, he was freely able to use champions to their fullest offensive potential: exterminating entire planetary populations. Instead of using the planet himself, he would sell it to the highest bidder, often at a massive profit.

At first the primary military might of the PTO lay in Freeza himself, for he was the most powerful Mutant Champion of his time, but he soon accumulated enough money to hire increasing numbers of mercenaries to exterminate ever more planets. The PTO only truly became the galactic superpower it is remembered as when Freeza managed to convince King Vegeta the Sixth to swear fealty to him, to the later reget of King Vegeta the Seventh and the Saiyans as a whole.




In this era, dominated as it was by the PTO, armies themselves came to be seen as superfluous, even wasteful.



The Era of the PTO came to an end following Freeza's defeat on Namek and then death on Earth, although the organization itself would survive for another decade or so as they attempted to maintain their holdings in the face of advancing military technology and increasing relevance of armies.

...

Elsewhere and Elsewhen​

"Why? Why would you do it Dr. Raichi? Why would you attack so many Time Patrollers?"

"You of all people have the unmitigated gall to ask that? You! Hah, I only killed Saiyans."

"Why!"

"Did you know that I honestly believed that you wanted only to protect time? For such a worthy cause as that, even I could put my hatred aside. After all, what is one species compared to the entire universe?"

"..."

"But you are just like the rest of your miserable species, a liar and a scoundrel. You aren't a neutral defender of cause and effect! You have a political agenda! And you'll twist time into a pretzel to achieve it."

"That's not true."

"Oh? Then the Saiyans weren't supposed to end with you? You and Cell, your escapades through time are the cause of constant damage to the timeline. Even when there are no attackers, time bleeds."

"..."

"Oh yes, and from the look on your face you know it too. All those shards of altered time from every age, all those parallel quests. Every single one of those openings for demons and magicians and scientists of ill intent. All of them are your fault."

"The Supreme Kai says..."

"CHRONOA IS DESPERATELY LONELY AND YOU KNOW IT! And you are taking shameless advantage of it."

"... that the timeline is better protected than ever, with the time patrol on the job."

"..."

"Look, Doctor, you're going to have to be punished for this. Maybe even executed."

"No, I don't think I will."

"Explain."

"Did you think my doctorate was for nothing boy? I have contingences. But don't worry, I won't work to attack the timeline, indeed, my ultimate aim is to correct the damage you have done! The time patrol has no need to fear my actions, only the damn dirty monkeys that killed my people."

And then, suddenly, Trunks was alone in the holding cell, Dr Raichi gone as if he was never there.

I will decide the canonicity of these later. Probably not the second one, cool as it is. I think I'll leave Time Patroller shenanigans to Nathaniel to keep the territory tidy. For now:

TAKE!

ALL!

OF MY COOKIES!

or y'know just one for the lot
 
Rather than quote the entirety of the discussion involved here, I've quoted the main participants to avoid comment bloat. This is already going to be a long one.

In general, like sound, the more source there is to ki, the farther it travels and the "louder" it is. That's one reason. Everything living can sense ki if it cares to learn; they would be felt at SSJ2 levels and above, let alone SSJ3. As for the god forms, while the number of suspects able to sense divine ki is less, it's not none, and the Exiles don't know if everybody on that list can be trusted. Plus, the Enemy might be able to sense it. They don't know, and are terrified of how much they don't know.

Why don't they shield it? Well, they could, feasibly. In fact, they've been trying. But in this case, the wards they have run up against limitations in infrastructure. They can't support themselves at greater magnitudes, and collapse under their own weight. The Great Question of Sorcery for the past couple of centuries has been, "how do you make a stronger ki shield?" And it's a question that remains unanswered. They know it's possible -- Bulma figured out a tech solution, after all -- they simply haven't cracked the theory on it. As is, the shielding can contain SSJ1 levels of power with around 150 million units of safety margin. They're trying to build a skyscraper without any knowledge of the involved technologies that would make that possible.

Thus, they don't dare try for more, and enforce that with lethal consequences. A Saiyan who made the second transformation would be public enemy number one. In fact, it's taken so seriously that as a standing rule, the standing reward for bringing down an SSJ2 is a Lordship -- the right to create a third Saiyan Clan and draw volunteers to join it from the other two, along with the right to transform. Because even SSJ2 can be sensed on the interstellar scale. When you're playing in leagues that reduce solar systems to ash, you're as noticeable as the hypernovas IRL that do the same. Anything beyond mastered SSJ is begging for attention -- in fact, the fact that your Dad was out of the Hall, fully transformed, in the Sealing, was the wake-up call for the Clans that it wasn't just two crazy kids messing around. In the instant that Berra left the Hall, shining a beacon that could be sensed from the nearest stellar neighbors, the Clans started preparing for war. Because the last time they sensed that, he and Vegeta were trying to kill each other.

And SSJ2 casts that presence even further out. The Senzus mount occasional expeditions to check the neighboring systems, and they're abandoned. Have been since the Exile began. The ones beyond that? Not so much. They don't have settlements, but they have traffic. And the instant some random schmuck sensed something like that, the rumor would spread like wildfire, and the Exiles would be in a mad dash to somehow do in months or single-digit years what the Z Fighters couldn't do in decades -- surpass Super Saiyan God, and gain the strength needed to slay the Enemy.

So...yeah. Consider this your notice: transform to SSJ2? You're starting that clock. And I won't narrow down whether it'll be months or nine years until you make that call.
Ah.

This makes a lot of sense.
I will decide the canonicity of these later. Probably not the second one, cool as it is. I think I'll leave Time Patroller shenanigans to Nathaniel to keep the territory tidy. For now:

TAKE!

ALL!

OF MY COOKIES!

or y'know just one for the lot
Mmm.

*ponders*
 
Man, get people off of the "Brace for the update" countdown and the thread goes nuts. :D



Derp. Yes.



Thank you. :)







Rather than quote the entirety of the discussion involved here, I've quoted the main participants to avoid comment bloat. This is already going to be a long one.

In general, like sound, the more source there is to ki, the farther it travels and the "louder" it is. That's one reason. Everything living can sense ki if it cares to learn; they would be felt at SSJ2 levels and above, let alone SSJ3. As for the god forms, while the number of suspects able to sense divine ki is less, it's not none, and the Exiles don't know if everybody on that list can be trusted. Plus, the Enemy might be able to sense it. They don't know, and are terrified of how much they don't know.

Why don't they shield it? Well, they could, feasibly. In fact, they've been trying. But in this case, the wards they have run up against limitations in infrastructure. They can't support themselves at greater magnitudes, and collapse under their own weight. The Great Question of Sorcery for the past couple of centuries has been, "how do you make a stronger ki shield?" And it's a question that remains unanswered. They know it's possible -- Bulma figured out a tech solution, after all -- they simply haven't cracked the theory on it. As is, the shielding can contain SSJ1 levels of power with around 150 million units of safety margin. They're trying to build a skyscraper without any knowledge of the involved technologies that would make that possible.

Thus, they don't dare try for more, and enforce that with lethal consequences. A Saiyan who made the second transformation would be public enemy number one. In fact, it's taken so seriously that as a standing rule, the standing reward for bringing down an SSJ2 is a Lordship -- the right to create a third Saiyan Clan and draw volunteers to join it from the other two, along with the right to transform. Because even SSJ2 can be sensed on the interstellar scale. When you're playing in leagues that reduce solar systems to ash, you're as noticeable as the hypernovas IRL that do the same. Anything beyond mastered SSJ is begging for attention -- in fact, the fact that your Dad was out of the Hall, fully transformed, in the Sealing, was the wake-up call for the Clans that it wasn't just two crazy kids messing around. In the instant that Berra left the Hall, shining a beacon that could be sensed from the nearest stellar neighbors, the Clans started preparing for war. Because the last time they sensed that, he and Vegeta were trying to kill each other.

And SSJ2 casts that presence even further out. The Senzus mount occasional expeditions to check the neighboring systems, and they're abandoned. Have been since the Exile began. The ones beyond that? Not so much. They don't have settlements, but they have traffic. And the instant some random schmuck sensed something like that, the rumor would spread like wildfire, and the Exiles would be in a mad dash to somehow do in months or single-digit years what the Z Fighters couldn't do in decades -- surpass Super Saiyan God, and gain the strength needed to slay the Enemy.

So...yeah. Consider this your notice: transform to SSJ2? You're starting that clock. And I won't narrow down whether it'll be months or nine years until you make that call.



A bit of early-installment weirdness that I hoped nobody would notice. I realized how unrealistic them developing the Spirit Bomb would be considering that apparently none of the Z Fighters could given years and an exact understanding of its principles, so it's a lesser retcon.



Ever been on an angry bender in an enclosed space with somebody you loathe present and a lot of breakable objects?

That. Except the room is Garenhuld, and the walls are made of glass.



Yes!

Yes!

Makes it easier to grind them, and new skills you gain there start at a higher level.

Yes! But depending on the shape of the fight you might wind up instead testing against Team Fighting, so controlling the battlefield would be ki. (imnotsorry) :D

I'll...get back to you on that.





I will decide the canonicity of these later. Probably not the second one, cool as it is. I think I'll leave Time Patroller shenanigans to Nathaniel to keep the territory tidy. For now:

TAKE!

ALL!

OF MY COOKIES!

or y'know just one for the lot
Interesting, interesting.
Okay, just a couple more questions, do injuries taken for one multiform move over to the original body if that multiform is destroyed, and would training to endure higher levels of Kaio-Ken involve better Ki control or just physical training? Oh, and can a multiform go SS?
 
So...do we have them now or is there like an action we need to do...?


This should help. It's the closest thing to canon we have. Pro-tip: Don't try to work them out based on Frieza himself. He was a mutant of the species and very different physiologically.
this is what @PoptartProdigy and I've hashed out:
Well,w e know that forms 1-3 are designed to 'seal' power, rather than release more. So, with that said...

Most Arcosians who need to use the seal customize how much power their forms have. So, you'll have one who's sealed form is 1%, 5% and 7% each, and another that's 22.4%, 36.8% and 65.7% respectively.

Some even don't use all three; instead they'll have one or two forms.

How does this look?

I'll work on form 5 and Golden later.
Hm...customizing, or just variance? Either could work, certainly.

I'm less certain about the one or two part, though. Transformations seem like they wouldn't be quite that much up to choice. Maybe they just tend to skip one out of pragmatism?

That said, I like the general idea that they're all different, being Sealed-

waitwaitwait!

Maybe the sealed forms are almost similar to Masques! As in, they wear those forms while getting used to their power, and slowly "unlock" higher forms as something they can comfortably wear all the time (Cooler had done this through training, which is why he could stay in Form IV permanently). Form V then would be a straight power increase in the style of SSJ, as would Golden, if on a commensurately more immense scale.
Not sure if he's going with this, but I know I am.
 
I always had the headcanon they were basically the opposite of humans in terms of growth, in which they pretty much always had growth limits, every stage massively increased their power from the previous one, and left them with a general power increase in all forms, you started off stage 1, and when you unlocked stage 2, it would be far more powerful while stage 1 would have a smaller power increase, and on and on and on you went.
 
Thus, they don't dare try for more, and enforce that with lethal consequences. A Saiyan who made the second transformation would be public enemy number one. In fact, it's taken so seriously that as a standing rule, the standing reward for bringing down an SSJ2 is a Lordship -- the right to create a third Saiyan Clan and draw volunteers to join it from the other two, along with the right to transform.
Considering how much of an upgrade SS2 is this seems kinda silly. Even if their entire race dogpiles the SS2 what are they going to do? bleed on them?

Thanks for the input btw. Less confused.
 
Another update:
Yessir!

...interesting. Form V is a x2 increase of the user's "highest power level." Do you smell Form V Golden Arcosian?
...

I like where this is going...
I'm thinking go with double, and go by the author's exact words (which were written before Resurrection F was even a thing, but who cares?): it multiplies the highest power level.
Arcosians are Bullshit, news at 11.
 
Considering how much of an upgrade SS2 is this seems kinda silly. Even if their entire race dogpiles the SS2 what are they going to do? bleed on them?

Thanks for the input btw. Less confused.
Well, Poptart did mention that the USS form (The one Trunks uses when he buffs up fighting Cell) can in fact match the SS2 form in sheer force, it's just a problem with how much speed suffers, so if enough people learnt the USS form and fought the one SS2, it would only need one to catch the SS2 in a Kamehameha while the others distract it.
Another update: Arcosians are Bullshit, news at 11.
Hey, Goku could use Kaio-Ken in his SSG form, sure, it wasn't fun, but a sayian could match that level of bullshit.
 
Well, Poptart did mention that the USS form (The one Trunks uses when he buffs up fighting Cell) can in fact match the SS2 form in sheer force, it's just a problem with how much speed suffers, so if enough people learnt the USS form and fought the one SS2, it would only need one to catch the SS2 in a Kamehameha while the others distract it.
Not to mention their seems to be ASSJ2 and USSJ2, with recent events in the anime/manga.
 
@PoptartProdigy

If we tried to practice Drunken Fist, would our Oddball trait give us a bonus to learning it?

Based on Dandeer's incancations I assume sorcery is based on Babidi's magic. Aside from mind control and other stuff, Babidi has shown the ability to use the Unlock Potential technique which has been seen previously by Grand Elder Guru and the Ultra Divine Water. If we were to get a Gokun sorcerer to use Unlock Potential on us, would that allow us to exceed the boundaries of Exceptional?
 
*discussion continues to explode*

*cracks knuckles*

Interesting, interesting.
Okay, just a couple more questions, do injuries taken for one multiform move over to the original body if that multiform is destroyed, and would training to endure higher levels of Kaio-Ken involve better Ki control or just physical training? Oh, and can a multiform go SS?

If your copy is destroyed, you simply lose all of the energy apportioned to that copy. It involves rigorous physical training that is greatly assisted by higher Ki Control skill. Copies can go SS, but again must split all such power between themselves. That said, they could elect for just one to go SSJ, thus keeping the boost all for themselves.

So...do we have them now or is there like an action we need to do...?

Sunglasses I'll just say you have, yeah. Armor, though, is more of a Vegetan thing, and then only for battle and formal occasions in their capacity as royalty. You could get a set, but House Goku doesn't have a full armory like House Vegeta does, so you'd need to go out and do it. Not so it'd cost an action, mind you, that'd just be silly. If enough people make a note that they want armor and nobody objects, I'll write a mini-scene and give you the choice of wearing it to the Council. If people do object, it goes to a mini-vote.

this is what @PoptartProdigy and I've hashed out:


Not sure if he's going with this, but I know I am.

This should help. It's the closest thing to canon we have. Pro-tip: Don't try to work them out based on Frieza himself. He was a mutant of the species and very different physiologically.

I always had the headcanon they were basically the opposite of humans in terms of growth, in which they pretty much always had growth limits, every stage massively increased their power from the previous one, and left them with a general power increase in all forms, you started off stage 1, and when you unlocked stage 2, it would be far more powerful while stage 1 would have a smaller power increase, and on and on and on you went.

The model Nathaniel quotes above is the one I've chosen as representative specifically of the mutants of Freeza's race like him (that being, the ones with insane power levels). They use the lower forms to seal away their power until they learn to control it, and Form IV is their "true" form. Bear in mind that my power level model is derived from BOD, which tends to at least semi-rigorously generate power levels for anything up to and through the Cell Saga. The model above is the one the author has created for these mutants, and in general anything covered up to the death of Cell will already have a figure and model waiting for me to use somewhere in that story.

That said, the vast majority of Freeza's race are about as potent as humans as far as they matter on the galactic level. Saiyans were an exceptional warrior race was because of their average power level, not their peak power level (although that, in time, came to be exceptional as well). Most races are scrubs. Noobs. Something else derogatory. They rarely hit the tens let alone the hundreds or thousands.

Considering how much of an upgrade SS2 is this seems kinda silly. Even if their entire race dogpiles the SS2 what are they going to do? bleed on them?

Thanks for the input btw. Less confused.

In order:

Essentially, yes. The standing bounty was the idea of a particularly cold-blooded Lord Goku as a tactic to drown the enemy in bodies and make them expend their strength to the point where a Lord could match them. But it's not impossible for enough base Saiyans to do it. If a Lord collaborated with them to pin down the offender long enough, you could get (*quick mathing*) roughly a thousand base Saiyans, going by my decision on where most Saiyans these days tend to settle if they don't train for more (1-3 million, so ~2 million), together and have them all fire at once, combining their power levels into a blast powerful enough to overwhelm the offender.

Happy to help!

@PoptartProdigy

If we tried to practice Drunken Fist, would our Oddball trait give us a bonus to learning it?

Based on Dandeer's incancations I assume sorcery is based on Babidi's magic. Aside from mind control and other stuff, Babidi has shown the ability to use the Unlock Potential technique which has been seen previously by Grand Elder Guru and the Ultra Divine Water. If we were to get a Gokun sorcerer to use Unlock Potential on us, would that allow us to exceed the boundaries of Exceptional?

In order:

...yes. I'm laughing now, and yes.

That would be a significant enough event to break that boundary.

Especially given that nobody knows that technique. But if they invent it...
 
Well, Poptart did mention that the USS form (The one Trunks uses when he buffs up fighting Cell) can in fact match the SS2 form in sheer force, it's just a problem with how much speed suffers, so if enough people learnt the USS form and fought the one SS2, it would only need one to catch the SS2 in a Kamehameha while the others distract it.

It may be canon for here but USS is certainly not on the same level as a SS2 in force. Cell could match it in his base form and he was getting his ass handed to him by SS2 Gohan before his zenkai, cell even used a similar buffed form and it did nothing. He never had to give it his all against Trunks, he was just toying with him.

In order:

Essentially, yes. The standing bounty was the idea of a particularly cold-blooded Lord Goku as a tactic to drown the enemy in bodies and make them expend their strength to the point where a Lord could match them. But it's not impossible for enough base Saiyans to do it. If a Lord collaborated with them to pin down the offender long enough, you could get (*quick mathing*) roughly a thousand base Saiyans, going by my decision on where most Saiyans these days tend to settle if they don't train for more (1-3 million, so ~2 million), together and have them all fire at once, combining their power levels into a blast powerful enough to overwhelm the offender.

That kind of thinking is flawed even before you account for instant transmission and guerrilla tactics. SS2 operates on a whole other level of speed and they would focus down opposing SS1s before dealing with the rabble. If the saiyans tried that against someone half as intelligent as our MC they would lose hard. If the SS2 doesn't want to get hit by big obvious attacks like you described they aren't.
 
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