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Dragon Ball: After the End

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Really, though, going to the one person we know with more social skills than Kakara and the experience to put both hers and Kakara's to use on the task sounds like the best way of going about it.
 
fictionfan said:
The thread really did get taken in with its own cleverness there.
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The talk to Dandeer option had a line that was highly objectionable to the "Fuck Dandeer" coalition and it's sympathizers . Had that line not been there things would probably have gone differently. With as much of the thread polarized as we had there, meeting her halfwayish required delicate wording and politicking. The line to apologize to her, which in most cases would be a very good idea, alienated that whole block of voters. (It being unnecessary is something I still find hilarious in a "lol, we fuck up" way)


I'm still waiting to reach the point when Poptart will let us know how that would have turned out. I have memes reserved for that.
 
Blonddude42 said:
The talk to Dandeer option had a line that was highly objectionable to the "Fuck Dandeer" coalition and it's sympathizers . Had that line not been there things would probably have gone differently. With as much of the thread polarized as we had there, meeting her halfwayish required delicate wording and politicking. The line to apologize to her, which in most cases would be a very good idea, alienated that whole block of voters. (It being unnecessary is something I still find hilarious in a "lol, we fuck up" way)


I'm still waiting to reach the point when Poptart will let us know how that would have turned out. I have memes reserved for that.
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He never will. Could have beens only generate salt.
 
Blonddude42 said:
The talk to Dandeer option had a line that was highly objectionable to the "Fuck Dandeer" coalition and it's sympathizers . Had that line not been there things would probably have gone differently. With as much of the thread polarized as we had there, meeting her halfwayish required delicate wording and politicking. The line to apologize to her, which in most cases would be a very good idea, alienated that whole block of voters. (It being unnecessary is something I still find hilarious in a "lol, we fuck up" way)


I'm still waiting to reach the point when Poptart will let us know how that would have turned out. I have memes reserved for that.
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I don't recall the exact details, but I do seem to recall the vote picking up traction more because there was a specific part of the leading talk to Dandeer option that got a lot of objections than because of the idea on it's own merits, yeah.
 
fictionfan said:
If only. No she is going to stab us in the back well we are fighting the Dragon. I wish I could think of some way to prevent that.
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I am quite sure Dandeer is cheerfully willing to stab Kakara in the back on two separate occasions, or indeed any conceivable number of occasions between one and infinity. Dandeer might go so far as to invent new, entirely unknown and previously unconceived numbers, purely so that she could stab us in the back that number of times.
 
I'm honestly more surprised at why people are so pissed at her to begin with. She's a jerk that treats kids as incapable of thought, but that describes a large portion of the world's population. She wasn't aware of what effects her seal would have on Jaffur/Jaron, so while she might be blamed for not checking her son for sorcery, she didn't exactly do that to him intentionally...

Honestly, a lot of her issues come from the fact that her husband abused both her and her son and she wanted to protect him from that, and from the psychosis she associated with being saiyan (which we have done little to convince her isn't a thing).
 
Terrabrand said:
I don't recall the exact details, but I do seem to recall the vote picking up traction more because there was a specific part of the leading talk to Dandeer option that got a lot of objections than because of the idea on it's own merits, yeah.
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Yeah, as one of the louder voices in the "Fuck Dandeer" crowd at the time, it was basically just that line that kept us banded together. The arguments were good enough that if the line was removed, the block would have at least split enough for the "talk to dandeer" option to win.


fictionfan said:
He never will. Could have beens only generate salt.
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Actually Poptart said we can find out after a few years. I think it was years in game though. Here's the quote.

PoptartProdigy said:
That one's best left to the mists of time at this stage. I'll tell you all later. Say, in a year or two. Remind me...hm. Yeah, remind me Year 7.
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Cariyaga said:
I'm honestly more surprised at why people are so pissed at her to begin with. She's a jerk that treats kids as incapable of thought, but that describes a large portion of the world's population. She wasn't aware of what effects her seal would have on Jaffur/Jaron, so while she might be blamed for not checking her son for sorcery, she didn't exactly do that to him intentionally...

Honestly, a lot of her issues come from the fact that her husband abused both her and her son and she wanted to protect him from that, and from the psychosis she associated with being saiyan (which we have done little to convince her isn't a thing).
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Cariyaga said:
I'm honestly more surprised at why people are so pissed at her to begin with. She's a jerk that treats kids as incapable of thought, but that describes a large portion of the world's population. She wasn't aware of what effects her seal would have on Jaffur/Jaron, so while she might be blamed for not checking her son for sorcery, she didn't exactly do that to him intentionally...

Honestly, a lot of her issues come from the fact that her husband abused both her and her son and she wanted to protect him from that, and from the psychosis she associated with being saiyan (which we have done little to convince her isn't a thing).
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can we literally not

we've had this argument so often that everyone is bone tired of it
 
Cariyaga said:
I'm honestly more surprised at why people are so pissed at her to begin with. She's a jerk that treats kids as incapable of thought, but that describes a large portion of the world's population. She wasn't aware of what effects her seal would have on Jaffur/Jaron, so while she might be blamed for not checking her son for sorcery, she didn't exactly do that to him intentionally...

Honestly, a lot of her issues come from the fact that her husband abused both her and her son and she wanted to protect him from that, and from the psychosis she associated with being saiyan (which we have done little to convince her isn't a thing).
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General observation: The primary protagonist of most stories, even non quest stories, tends to get treated as a personal stand in by most fans of the story.

This extends to judging characters by how they treat the main character in a manner as if it was aimed at them. Example: Most Naruto fans have an opinion of Haku and Zabuza that is honestly better than they deserve if neutrally evaluated rather than based on how they specifically interacted with Naruto. Similarly, many Naruto fans (though not all) either ship Naruto with Sakura or hate Sakura. (presumably, under this observation, either focusing on Naruto wanting her or her initially poor treatment of him.)

Ergo, regardless of whether an impartial observer would rate her as all that bad, the combination of talking down at Kakara and disrespecting her (while also trying to manipulate and use her) is likely being quite literally taken personally by at least some posters.

It is extremely likely that if we were playing eg Berra or Yammar or Apra that the average voter perception of her would be, if not more positive, than at least less invested.

As we are in fact playing a child character (who is thus the main character) her derision towards children hits far closer to home emotionally, and is more practically threatening (as she would not treat Berra as beneath the need to listen to, for example. And thus diplomacy would be overall a more readily possible course of action.), than with any of those alternates.

Not gonna go into it any more directly than that, though.

Blonddude42 said:
Yeah, as one of the louder voices in the "Fuck Dandeer" crowd at the time, it was basically just that line that kept us banded together. The arguments were good enough that if the line was removed, the block would have at least split enough for the "talk to dandeer" option to win.
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Yeah, if I recall correctly 'talk to Valentine' was my idea originally, and a lot of voters were explicitly being 'fuck that line, talking to Valentine doesn't have that line, voting that'.

... I also got, what, two or three voters who wanted to watch the world burn? At any rate.
 
Suffice to say that some of us have strong visceral reactions to:

1) Mind control
2) Child mistreatment
3) Child abuse

Dandeer can reasonably be accused of any or all of these things. So yes, in addition to everything Terrabrand said... She is going to draw hate. Some of it rather justified, in my opinion.
 
There's also the fact that being abused doesn't justify you abusing others.

But overall, I really hated her because she hit a lot of triggers for me when I was in a period of a bad head-space. I think I'm mostly over my hate for her though.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Suffice to say that some of us have strong visceral reactions to:

1) Mind control
2) Child mistreatment
3) Child abuse

Dandeer can reasonably be accused of any or all of these things. So yes, in addition to everything Terrabrand said... She is going to draw hate. Some of it rather justified, in my opinion.
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Ah, yeah, I'd forgotten about that first one; that one's pretty explicit and I'd agree there. The lattermost is not something I agree on (separately of the first, anyway), but she has mistreated Jaffur/Jaron.
e:
Blonddude42 said:
There's also the fact that being abused doesn't justify you abusing others.
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I never intended to imply it did, so I apologize if my statements were taken that way.
 
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Well, I discovered this quest some time later, so I read about them in reader mode, as I would read a story, and from my outsider perspective it was pretty clever bit of maneuvering and I liked it a lot. Such things make story interesting and generate much-needed interpersonal conflict.
 
Terrabrand said:
I'd appreciate being invited to that conversation, if you don't mind.
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It's... kind of winding down and was only ever about minutiae. Since I will be unable to participate in it for quite a while, starting about two hours from now... I'd honestly rather just drop it. If you want to talk to Cariyaga yourself, go ahead, I don't want to discourage you.
 
LockedMind said:
Well, I discovered this quest some time later, so I read about them in reader mode, as I would read a story, and from my outsider perspective it was pretty clever bit of maneuvering and I liked it a lot. Such things make story interesting and generate much-needed interpersonal conflict.
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As said before, definitely clever, but probably too clever.
 
I think the decision was definitely made in the context prior to Kakara's vision that the dragon would be arriving at the end of this year, even before the aliens as I recall. There was on some level an expectation that we'd have time to settle Dandeer's hash before the dragon showed up to pose a separate existential threat, and that Jaron as an asset against the aliens was important enough to be worth further antagonizing Dandeer.
 
I for one, voted for the option just to see what hilarious trainwreck it would cause, despite being a member of the 'Make peace' faction.

I was half expecting her to explode or turn Super Saiyan on the spot.
 
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