Remove ads

Dragon Ball: After the End

Voting is open
Reader mode
Bakkasama said:
I was fairly happy with the update. Then I saw we are at Hap-con 2 now.

That said, we can still turn this in our favor. Dad will be angry we did things like this but if Dandeer tries something directly against us that will put a strain on her relationship with Berra and erode his support of her. It is also a direct challenge to her authority that will make her position as ruler even weaker. The more of a farce her regency looks, the easier it should be for Yammar to gather political support. Not to mention we are fairly popular ourselves so us publicaly disaproving of her does have weight.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Alternatively we could apologize, say we got heated in the moment, and that she didn't deserve to be treated like that.
 
Last edited:
Cariyaga said:
Alternatively we could apologize, say we got heated in the moment, and that she didn't deserve to be treated like that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Fairly sure that ship has sailed, barring intense Berra intervention, multiple AP being spent on it and immense luck.

You know, I can't help but wonder what Dandeer and Berra a thinking long-term, as Kakara is going to eventually replace him as Lady.
 
Last edited:
LunarDreams said:
Ohh.Umm this was.... something else. It makes me wish the 'Talk to Dandeer"'option was chosen. I wonder how it would've turned out. Also,i don't like how spiteful Kakera is here, but maybe it can be a learning experience for her. Just because you have someone you dislike greatly doesn't mean that pettiness trumps being reasonable.(especially if the benefits of being reasonable outweighs the former)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Spiting Dandeer was pretty much the driving force of the in-thread reasoning, so I'm not surprised it came out in the update. I'm pretty unhappy with how this has turned out, but that's majority voting for you. You can't really weight votes by how much a person cares about the outcome - what would that even look like?

Cariyaga said:
I would be fine with this. As it stands, I like Dandeer more than Kakara. :p
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You take that back :mad:
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Spiting Dandeer was pretty much the driving force of the in-thread reasoning, so I'm not surprised it came out in the update. I'm pretty unhappy with how this has turned out, but that's majority voting for you. You can't really weight votes by how much a person cares about the outcome - what would that even look like?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
A fanfic. :lol
 
Gore17 said:
You know, I can't help but wonder what Dandeer and Berra a thinking long-term, as Kakara is going to eventually replace him as Lady.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You know, I feel like this should be a serious question: @PoptartProdigy, does Kakara have any idea of what Berra's long-term plans with the Sealing and Dandeer situation are, with regards to the fact that Kakara hates the whole situation and especially hates Dandeer?

Like, I genuinely can't see any way he can swing it without extreme measures, or blind hope that Kakara would keep grudgingly accepting it forever. Is there something I've missed that would stop Kakara from reversing everything he's done?
 
Last edited:
Simon_Jester said:
Uh... yeah, we kind of knew. A lot of us knew we had a good chance, or at least a decent one.


There's actually a really, really big gap between saying "her acting this way was predictable because she would predictably feel insulted" and "she was right to act in the way we predicted."

I mean, Lord Vegeta, pre-Sealing, would predictably react to any 'backtalk' from his son by hitting the boy with a Big Bang Attack or something. He regarded such backtalk as "a direct slap in the face" and "an insult." That doesn't mean doing so was right by any stretch of the imagination.

Uh... then why does she have power, authority, or a right to act in the politics of the Exiles and the Saiyans? I mean, if Valentine Somerlad doesn't have a say (indirectly) in saiyan politics, where does Regent Dandeer's say in those politics come from? Her claim to political power comes entirely from the notion that she's been (indirectly) consulting her husband.

Alternatively, if Dandeer/Doreen's authority over Jaron comes from being his mother, then why doesn't Valentine have similar authority? Sealed or not, he's still part of a marriage, right? Does he not get a say in what happens to his own son? If so, that's a very unequal marriage.

[You could argue that Lord Vegeta has no right to any say in what happens to his kids, and you'd be right- but the entire point of the Sealing was to metaphysically amputate the parts of "Lord Vegeta's" mind that made him such an abusive evil fuck. If Dandeer, with full opportunity to do so, didn't forcibly MAKE Lord Vegeta into a good father, then that is a major failure on HER part given how much incentive she had to try and how long she's had to do it.]

Aaaand now you know why the Vegetans were right on the edge of openly revolting against Dandeer's regency! Because from their point of view, if we acknowledge this completely obvious truth, then Dandeer was basically a usurper who seized control of their government in a coup by mind-controlling the king and the prince.

The legal fiction that 'Lord Vegeta,' even when addressed in terms of metaphor and allusion, has authority over the Vegetans, is the only thing that kept their government from blowing up during a four-year regency.

Furthermore, if we're talking about who has the legal right to do what, that loops back to the point that while Valentine Somerlad doesn't know anything about saiyans, he DOES now know about ki and his son having ki powers, and the upcoming alien invasion. He has sufficient information to make a fairly well informed decision on whether his son can train to fight with ki.


To be fair, the "defeat a super saiyan" part happened when the super saiyans in question were asleep and badly wounded (probably not even transformed), respectively. The latter may not have happened at all since we have no idea if Dandeer told the truth about what passed between her and Jaffur on the night of Lord Vegeta's Sealing.

The one-on-two fight? Yeah, that was all Berra. Had Berra not intervened and had physical power that mismatched and ludicrously overmatched the Kakara-Jaffur teamup (as you'd expect a grown man to outmatch two eight year old children)... Dandeer would have lost that one hopelessly. She'd have been stranded away from the action while the Senzus caught up with us and whisked Jaffur away into safety.

Uh... what?

Now I think you're being... reflexively super pessimistic, excessively so.

To be fair, Dandeer is on thin enough political ice that her effective power is very limited, especially if it gets out that she reacted this way to us directly consulting "Lord Vegeta" on an issue where even Sealed he was in a position to understand the risks and issues involved now that the secret of ki is out.

There's risk of Dandeer breaking out heavy-duty magic against us, but by the same token if she starts launching magical attacks at us like that we DO have allies, and people who would intervene on our behalf. We do in fact have Seers watching our backs. And Berra, Yammar, and Apra all have their own separate reasons NOT to tolerate Dandeer tampering with the Scion of Goku, or Dandeer acting in ways that compromise the defenses of Garenhuld in the face of the alien threat.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
People keep mentioning the Seers, but I don't think that is as useful as people say it is.

Otherwise the Senzu's would have been caught by now.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
You take that back :mad:
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I can understand where Dandeer's coming from in her actions and even in her xenophobic disregard for humans. I hold Kakara to higher standards for behaviour because, one, we get a lot more insight into her thought processes, and two, we have near-direct control over her actions.

Kakara was unrepentently hateful toward an abuse victim regarding her abuser and spiteful when questioned.

To me, she is far more loathsome than Dandeer. It may be claimed that Dandeer 'killed', or attempted murder, in Jaffur's case, two people, but from her perspective and that of the actual experts in the field of magic, that is not the case. It may be claimed that she has wanton disregard for human life in regard to intervening in the nuclear attacks. This may even be true, but they are not her people, and doing so put her people at risk.

Kakara, on the other hand, was loathsome to Dandeer because she wanted to be. She didn't want to talk to Dandeer, didn't want to try to convince her of anything, and spit in her face in particular regarding her abuser.

e: She was so blinded by hatred that she didn't care that she was making a woman cry.
 
Last edited:
Gore17 said:
You know, I feel like this should be a serious question: @PoptartProdigy, does Kakara have any idea of what Berra's long-term plans with the Sealing and Dandeer situation are, with regards to the fact that Kakara hates the whole situation and especially hates Dandeer?

Like, I genuinely can't see any way he can swing it without extreme measures, or blind hope that Kakara would keep grudgingly accepting it forever. Is there something I've missed that would stop Kakara from reversing everything he's done?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well, he'll still be Patriarch even after Kakara is Lady, so he'll be able to exercise some influence there. That said, it'd be a struggle. Honestly, his long-term plans seem to be, "continue supporting Dandeer, keep trying to convince Kakara that there's nothing to be gained by making a stink."

This is not a good situation for anybody.
 
Cariyaga said:
I can understand where Dandeer's coming from in her actions and even in her xenophobic disregard for humans. I hold Kakara to higher standards for behaviour because, one, we get a lot more insight into her thought processes, and two, we have near-direct control over her actions.

Kakara was unrepentently hateful toward an abuse victim regarding her abuser and spiteful when questioned.

To me, she is far more loathsome than Dandeer. It may be claimed that Dandeer 'killed', or attempted murder, in Jaffur's case, two people, but from her perspective and that of the actual experts in the field of magic, that is not the case. It may be claimed that she has wanton disregard for human life in regard to intervening in the nuclear attacks. This may even be true, but they are not her people, and doing so put her people at risk.

Kakara, on the other hand, was loathsome to Dandeer because she wanted to be. She didn't want to talk to Dandeer, didn't want to try to convince her of anything, and spit in her face in particular regarding her abuser.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Or, put another way:

Dandeer has insanity as an excuse. Kakara has none.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
Well, he'll still be Patriarch even after Kakara is Lady, so he'll be able to exercise some influence there. That said, it'd be a struggle. Honestly, his long-term plans seem to be, "continue supporting Dandeer, keep trying to convince Kakara that there's nothing to be gained by making a stink."

This is not a good situation for anybody.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
See, that is what I call a shit plan. Would he hold back if it was Yammar?
 
Gore17 said:
See, that is what I call a shit plan. Would he hold back if it was Yammar?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
'Course not. That would be contrary to the point of seeing Yammar as the embodiment of saiyankind's sins.

But Kakara is his daughter and heir. His options for forcibly restraining her are considerably reduced, and largely inconceivable to him regardless.

The Sealing, from any arguable definition of, "start to finish," happened in a twenty-four-hour time period. Nobody ever said that it was without long-term difficulties. They did it like that largely because the perception was that Dandeer was in immediate danger from her son, not because they cold-bloodedly planned out an extensive solution for the inevitable objectors.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
'Course not. That would be contrary to the point of seeing Yammar as the embodiment of saiyankind's sins.

But Kakara is his daughter and heir. His options for forcibly restraining her are considerably reduced, and largely inconceivable to him regardless.

The Sealing, from any arguable definition of, "start to finish," happened in a twenty-four-hour time period. Nobody ever said that it was without long-term difficulties. They did it like that largely because the perception was that Dandeer was in immediate danger from her son, not because they cold-bloodedly planned out an extensive solution for the inevitable objectors.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
He really didn't cause doesn't the Vegeta clan die out with Jaffur?

I mean before he didn't know that the masquerade was going to go kabooyi, but unless the now human Jaron's kid is a Sayin and raised as that then when Jaron died so too goes the Vegeta clan or something?

And that doesn't seem like a good idea...

Or something.

PoptartProdigy said:
....and I just lost the entire next update. Fuck.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't suppose undo/cntr Z is an option?
 
Alex pears said:
He really didn't cause doesn't the Vegeta clan die out with Jaffur?

I mean before he didn't know that the masquerade was going to go kabooyi, but unless the now human Jaron's kid is a Sayin and raised as that then when Jaron died so too goes the Vegeta clan or something?

And that doesn't seem like a good idea...

Or something.


I don't suppose undo/cntr Z is an option?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Jaron's hypothetical future Heir is quite the conundrum for the Clan, yes. They do have a solution for that one, though -- raise the kid saiyan away from their father.

And no. Not necessarily a bad thing, since I think my idea for a second try will actually flow better, but it's annoying.
Gore17 said:
....Is that my fault? :(:cry:
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Only by the very slightest of margins, in that responding to your post was what gave me the opportunity to be carelessly negligent with my text boxes. This one is on me.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
Jaron's hypothetical future Heir is quite the conundrum for the Clan, yes. They do have a solution for that one, though -- raise the kid saiyan away from their father.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Wait so if a sayin has a kid while under a human masque (which IIRC turns them into a human) then the kid is born a Sayin?

Or can permanently put a human kid under a half sayin masque?

And yeah she really didn't think this one through... at all.

I get why she did it, but she didn't... Kakara isn't either... kinda...

edit: Wait they don't know she technically created the human Jaron... so trying to make a sayin baby from Jaron doesn't really work either?... Oy Ve...
 
Last edited:
Alright, update is being written. Please no questions, to remove the temptation for me to fuck myself over by losing all of it. :p
Alex pears said:
Wait so if a sayin has a kid while under a human masque (which IIRC turns them into a human) then the kid is born a Sayin?

Or can permanently put a human kid under a half sayin masque?

And yeah she really didn't think this one through... at all.

I get why she did it, but she didn't... Kakara isn't either... kinda...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Masque or not, kids are born saiyans.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
'Course not. That would be contrary to the point of seeing Yammar as the embodiment of saiyankind's sins.

But Kakara is his daughter and heir. His options for forcibly restraining her are considerably reduced, and largely inconceivable to him regardless.

The Sealing, from any arguable definition of, "start to finish," happened in a twenty-four-hour time period. Nobody ever said that it was without long-term difficulties. They did it like that largely because the perception was that Dandeer was in immediate danger from her son, not because they cold-bloodedly planned out an extensive solution for the inevitable objectors.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I know. I was just pointing out that "waiting and praying" is a horrible idea, he should probably realize that, and I'm honestly baffled he hasn't had Dandeer and Kakara into therapy, have counselling sessions with Kakara and himself, all while working on creating a plan for the future/alternative to the Sealing.

Well, would be if it it wasn't for the horrific state of mental health care amongst the Exiles, but still think that last one should probably have been done. :p

Instead, there was an unsupervised meeting between Kakara and Dandeer, that ended in disaster, and no follow up.
Alex pears said:
Wait so if a sayin has a kid while under a human masque (which IIRC turns them into a human) then the kid is born a Sayin?

Or can permanently put a human kid under a half sayin masque?

And yeah she really didn't think this one through... at all.

I get why she did it, but she didn't... Kakara isn't either... kinda...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The Masque does not affect the reproductive results.
 
Gore17 said:
The Masque does not affect the reproductive results.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah, but isn't Jaron just human or something?

I dunno maybe I'm misremembering, but due to Dandeer's spell and Jaffur's supercharged not counter didn't it create Jaron as just a human rather than a super charged Masque like was originally intended?

That's just what I remember I might be completely wrong.
 
*Reads update*
*Sighs wearily*

Of course.
I....no, not going to write out salt.

I am displeased with this result and this line of action. I don't like what happened and I'm not sure I like who Kakara was during this bit.

Ugh.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Voting is open
Remove ads
Back
Top