Indeed. +105 or higher to the communications check from skills and traits, plus an unknown bonus from the various arguments, minus an unknown penalty due to hang-ups. However, we knew that she could be convinced to undo the Sealing with the right approach, bonuses and enough luck. Convincing her of this would have been considerably easier.
Dragon Ball: After the End
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Alright, I'm off to bed. Night, everybody. Expect the next bit tomorrow.
- Location
- USA
The Fuck Dandeer fraction grows and shrinks over time, but it swelled to at least 15 people for the last vote. It's pretty obvious. It fed the faction's hate and gave them something concrete and relatively reasonable to oppose. Voting isn't just about good arguments and what is best, it's also politics. When you have large contingents of voters forming factions you have to play the game.
Can you give the breakdown for that please? That's a large enough number it doesn't really seem believable without seeing it added up.
Here's the breakdown:
Communication Exceptional: +30
Compelling Presence: +10 or higher
Convictions: +10
Level-Headed: +10
Protector: +20
Socializer: +10
Omakes: +15
All together, that's +105. Something I pointed out during the discussions.
Our maximum Communication bonus, with the maximum omake bonus, is +145.
To put that in perspective, that's the equivalent of having Legendary in a skill, Master-level in a Style and a 20% PL difference over your opponent. Or Exceptional in a skill, and nearly a 30% difference in PL.
If you remove the omake, it's about 16.67% and 23.33% respectively.
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- Location
- USA
Well I'll be damned. Or well, we'll be damned because this is only ending in fire.
The hilarious thing is that I remember trying to convince the thread to use a free action to to make peace with her from a position of power right when the religious council ended. Back before the whole high treason thing made risking putting her on guard a non-option.
- Location
- Australia
You didn't, though. I just looked through all the posts between when the Valentine vote was created until the time when the vote was closed and you didn't speak up at all regarding it. The first time you said anything about it was your freakout post after the vote closed. The Valentine vote got barely any discussion actually, with what little detraction against it being rather mild all things told.
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Could have sworn I did during the discussion with Bommelon? Did I forget to post it?
And honestly, the vote had relatively few supporters for a long time, and by the time there was any meaningful support for it, I was really tired, and expected to still be able to make a campaign against it if neede when I got back.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Oh god, we don't even know what sorcerers can do in this setting, much less master mind mages. What if she can scry us? What if she can listen in on Ki Telepathy? What if she hears us talking about the Conspiracy? We need to mention to Grandma that Dandeer is mad at us personally, and we aren't sure what a master mind mage can do. Or hear.
We really need to take Study Magic ASAP. Honestly, if we could, I'd ask @PoptartProdigy to hold a vote about replacing one of our upcoming actions with it.
We really need to take Study Magic ASAP. Honestly, if we could, I'd ask @PoptartProdigy to hold a vote about replacing one of our upcoming actions with it.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Honestly, yes, it could have. This could have gone much worse.
Buuut it was actually pretty bad all the same. Dandeer is pissed. And she is, at least when in the heat of anger, willing to throw sorcery at us- I don't know what spell starts with "Blind" but I don't like the sound of it.
Thaaaat would not be a bad idea. At all.
It honestly seems so. Under the circumstances it's totally unsurprising and kind of... expected... that she just isn't able to do rational when it comes to her family.
Dandeer is fairly... bonkers. And the more bonkers one gets, the easier it is for one to attribute unrelated actions to a perceived enemy. Or to mentally shift blame for a thing they, the bonkers person, did onto another person.
To be fair, that was before we grabbed her in mid-spell, teleported her off to some random island, and tried to escape with Jaffur. We have already laid hands on her and done what an Earthly court might actually count as kidnapping. We did it for a damn good reason, but Dandeer will not, to say it mildly, agree with that assessment.
You are now in just about exactly the same place I was the last time we had an argument, and I empathize.
Honestly, no, I don't care about what she did to Lord Vegeta, he had much worse coming to him. Altering Jaffur's memories... deeply questionable and dubious and I'm not sure I'm happy with with it, but if we could just find out what really happened, I might well end up concluding it was justified. Or not. It depends on details.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Uh... yeah, we kind of knew. A lot of us knew we had a good chance, or at least a decent one.
There's actually a really, really big gap between saying "her acting this way was predictable because she would predictably feel insulted" and "she was right to act in the way we predicted."
I mean, Lord Vegeta, pre-Sealing, would predictably react to any 'backtalk' from his son by hitting the boy with a Big Bang Attack or something. He regarded such backtalk as "a direct slap in the face" and "an insult." That doesn't mean doing so was right by any stretch of the imagination.
Uh... then why does she have power, authority, or a right to act in the politics of the Exiles and the Saiyans? I mean, if Valentine Somerlad doesn't have a say (indirectly) in saiyan politics, where does Regent Dandeer's say in those politics come from? Her claim to political power comes entirely from the notion that she's been (indirectly) consulting her husband.
Alternatively, if Dandeer/Doreen's authority over Jaron comes from being his mother, then why doesn't Valentine have similar authority? Sealed or not, he's still part of a marriage, right? Does he not get a say in what happens to his own son? If so, that's a very unequal marriage.
[You could argue that Lord Vegeta has no right to any say in what happens to his kids, and you'd be right- but the entire point of the Sealing was to metaphysically amputate the parts of "Lord Vegeta's" mind that made him such an abusive evil fuck. If Dandeer, with full opportunity to do so, didn't forcibly MAKE Lord Vegeta into a good father, then that is a major failure on HER part given how much incentive she had to try and how long she's had to do it.]
Aaaand now you know why the Vegetans were right on the edge of openly revolting against Dandeer's regency! Because from their point of view, if we acknowledge this completely obvious truth, then Dandeer was basically a usurper who seized control of their government in a coup by mind-controlling the king and the prince.
The legal fiction that 'Lord Vegeta,' even when addressed in terms of metaphor and allusion, has authority over the Vegetans, is the only thing that kept their government from blowing up during a four-year regency.
Furthermore, if we're talking about who has the legal right to do what, that loops back to the point that while Valentine Somerlad doesn't know anything about saiyans, he DOES now know about ki and his son having ki powers, and the upcoming alien invasion. He has sufficient information to make a fairly well informed decision on whether his son can train to fight with ki.
To be fair, the "defeat a super saiyan" part happened when the super saiyans in question were asleep and badly wounded (probably not even transformed), respectively. The latter may not have happened at all since we have no idea if Dandeer told the truth about what passed between her and Jaffur on the night of Lord Vegeta's Sealing.
The one-on-two fight? Yeah, that was all Berra. Had Berra not intervened and had physical power that mismatched and ludicrously overmatched the Kakara-Jaffur teamup (as you'd expect a grown man to outmatch two eight year old children)... Dandeer would have lost that one hopelessly. She'd have been stranded away from the action while the Senzus caught up with us and whisked Jaffur away into safety.
Uh... what?
Now I think you're being... reflexively super pessimistic, excessively so.
To be fair, Dandeer is on thin enough political ice that her effective power is very limited, especially if it gets out that she reacted this way to us directly consulting "Lord Vegeta" on an issue where even Sealed he was in a position to understand the risks and issues involved now that the secret of ki is out.
There's risk of Dandeer breaking out heavy-duty magic against us, but by the same token if she starts launching magical attacks at us like that we DO have allies, and people who would intervene on our behalf. We do in fact have Seers watching our backs. And Berra, Yammar, and Apra all have their own separate reasons NOT to tolerate Dandeer tampering with the Scion of Goku, or Dandeer acting in ways that compromise the defenses of Garenhuld in the face of the alien threat.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Literally nothing can change with regards to our already fully-fleshed-out plan to unseal Jaffur, and this just makes it harder, so... no?
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
I was fairly happy with the update. Then I saw we are at Hap-con 2 now.
That said, we can still turn this in our favor. Dad will be angry we did things like this but if Dandeer tries something directly against us that will put a strain on her relationship with Berra and erode his support of her. It is also a direct challenge to her authority that will make her position as ruler even weaker. The more of a farce her regency looks, the easier it should be for Yammar to gather political support. Not to mention we are fairly popular ourselves so us publicaly disaproving of her does have weight.
That said, we can still turn this in our favor. Dad will be angry we did things like this but if Dandeer tries something directly against us that will put a strain on her relationship with Berra and erode his support of her. It is also a direct challenge to her authority that will make her position as ruler even weaker. The more of a farce her regency looks, the easier it should be for Yammar to gather political support. Not to mention we are fairly popular ourselves so us publicaly disaproving of her does have weight.
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
You don't think it will put strain on our relationship with him?
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
No. He will be pissed that we went around his ally and put a strain on our working relationship with her but our reasoning to have Jaron trained is sound. He is our father and has our best interests in mind; our relationship is not so fragile as to be strained from this so while he might be irritated whenever we share a room with Dandeer, it will be because of the bickering.
Ridiculously Average Guy
I'm you, but stronger
- Location
-
Well crap, seems like things have devolved into all out war.
Well, then, only one thing we can do, Seal Dandeer. Specifically get either the Senzu sorceror or Jaffur to seal away her trauma.
Well, then, only one thing we can do, Seal Dandeer. Specifically get either the Senzu sorceror or Jaffur to seal away her trauma.
- Location
- Somewhere
Do the thing we are completelly oposed to?
Doesn't seem likely.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I would have thought Kakara was opposed to vindictive spite for the sake of it, but here we are.
e: To be 100% clear, I do not blame any person for the perceived-poor outcome of this update but myself. Stupid human requirement of sleep. I'm almost certain that if I had been awake, I could have convinced someone to change their vote.
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- Location
- ?
Ohh.Umm this was.... something else. It makes me wish the 'Talk to Dandeer"'option was chosen. I wonder how it would've turned out. Also,i don't like how spiteful Kakera is here, but maybe it can be a learning experience for her. Just because you have someone you dislike greatly doesn't mean that pettiness trumps being reasonable.(especially if the benefits of being reasonable outweighs the former)
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