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Again, Chi Chi is not the model here. This is not an overprotective mother. This is a battered rape victim terrified of watching her little boy begin to resemble her abuser. Her reaction to, "He's going to fight either way and you can't stop him", isn't going to be rational acceptance anymore than her reaction to his becoming a Super Saiyan was. She will stop him no matter the lengths. She will keep him in an infantile state of dependency, and to HFIL with the costs.
 
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Also, what's up with asking dad for advice? We know what he will say. Don't.

No mother with a sane mindwants their 13 YO son fighting aliens. Berra knows she doesn't want him fighying aliens. Jaron probably suspects she doesn't want him fighting aliens. I usually don't agree with Lailoken but there is no way she will say yes and she will just get angry if we question how she raises her family. She might even rescind the hypothetical permission for Jaron to learn ki and where would that leave us? We have seen that he is willing to fight with no idea what he is doing. His mother banning him from training won't stop that just as it wouldn't stop Maya because neither has an idea how strong our people really are.

I say we just teach him how to fight and fuck the consecuences. Better for him and for us on the long run.
 
I say we remind him about the poor mountain and tell him that there isn't time to get him trained enough to not be a danger to himself and others. He needs to sit this one out. We have plenty of grunts. We don't need a half-trained child playing superhero during the invasion.
 
I say we remind him about the poor mountain and tell him that there isn't time to get him trained enough to not be a danger to himself and others. He needs to sit this one out. We have plenty of grunts. We don't need a half-trained child playing superhero during the invasion.

He is a prodigy and better a half trained one than an untrained one.

Besides, he already helped beat Murk, they have it on video and he even almost killed him with a rock. He is too weak for the leader to bother but I bet he will have a bounty on his head.

We can always leave him in the rear lines as a last line of defense. Tell him his duty is to defend the civvies in case any of them get pass, since they know in which city to find us.

Edit: Also, pointing to what he said.

"Even if I don't help I want to be able to"

It is not a sure thing he would fight if trained. He still hasn't decided because of his mother.

Who, by the way, there is no way doesn't know we are training him. Not only does Jaron have watchers but we are both openly flying in the streets near home.
 
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He is a prodigy and better a half trained one than an untrained one.

Besides, he already helped beat Murk, they have it on video and he even almost killed him with a rock. He is too weak for the leader to bother but I bet he will have a bounty on his head.

We can always leave him in the rear lines as a last line of defense. Tell him his duty is to defend the civvies in case any of them get pass, since they know in which city to find us.

Edit: Also, pointing to what he said.

"Even if I don't help I want to be able to"

It is not a sure thing he would fight if trained. He still hasn't decided because of his mother.

Who, by the way, there is no way doesn't know we are training him. Not only does Jaron have watchers but we are both openly flying in the streets near home.

Half a year of half-baked training by someone who is herself an amateur isn't going to get him to a power level nor skill capable of competing with the professional Saiyans doing their jobs. That's to say nothing of all of the other things a sentinel is going to need to know to avoid causing more chaos than they're worth to the other defenders. If he faces combat he needs to hide or run.

More importantly, it raises the risks of Dandeer freaking out for no real gain. The battered woman might be manageable when it comes to ki training, but combat training will trigger her everything. This isn't about Jaron's safety for her. It'll hopefully never be an issue either way, but if she does read a tabloid about Karen disappearing with her son and their newly superpowered friends or even just sees him stay busting out Tien style during the crisis the costs will not be anything close with it. Stick him under guard in the hall during the invasion. Don't poke the witch until everybody is ready to move.
 
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[X] Fuck. Dandeer. You've tiptoed around her for long enough. Her son has ki, and he's on-camera as somebody who helped take Murk down. You have all the justification you need to teach him how to fight with ki. Teach Jaron, and damn Dandeer's expressed feelings on the matter.
 
[X] Fuck. Dandeer. You've tiptoed around her for long enough. Her son has ki, and he's on-camera as somebody who helped take Murk down. You have all the justification you need to teach him how to fight with ki. Teach Jaron, and damn Dandeer's expressed feelings on the matter.

For now, at the very least.
 
Half a year of half-baked training by someone who is herself an amateur isn't going to get him to a power level nor skill capable of competing with the professional Saiyans doing their jobs. That's to say nothing of all of the other things a sentinel is going to need to know to avoid causing more chaos than they're worth to the other defenders. If he faces combat he needs to hide or run.

More importantly, it raises the risks of Dandeer freaking out for no real gain. The battered woman might be manageable when it comes to ki training, but combat training will trigger her everything. This isn't about Jaron's safety for her. It'll hopefully never be an issue either way, but if she does read a tabloid about Karen disappearing with her son and their newly superpowered friends or even just sees him stay busting out Tien style during the crisis the costs will not be anything close with it. Stick him under guard in the hall during the invasion. Don't poke the witch until everybody is ready to move.
The issue is that he will neither hide or run. You read what he said about being a good person and he doesn't know the strength of our forces.

It is implied in the text that whether he fights or not will be up to Jaron and Dandeer. I don't want him to fight. However, if the fight comes to him? He either won't run because he will be in the city with his loved ones or he will run to lure the aliens away.

The gain here is the social link, which is high time we developed. Boy has secrets and needs friends and we should solve both before the seal is broken.

Besides, if we train him we can reliably tell him he is not ready when the scouts come sometime next year (not this one). He already proved willing to follow our lead and we can get used to that. We just tell him come the invasion he is the last line of defense for the city in case an alien slips by (which he won't be as I doubt dad would leave it undefended) not to mention whatever protection detail Dandeer thinks up for him.

As for giving him combat training triggering her? Needs must. She has to see her son is not Vegeta. If she believes he is becoming him, her saiyan mental illness holds no ground. It also shows us she won't get better once Jaffur is released. Also, there have been human fighters among the ancestors and she has nothing against those.

If she is afraid of him fighting, that is a valid concern but whether he does it or not, training increases his chances of survival. If she is afraid of him becoming like Vegeta, then that should help her shake the rationalization she made to rid him of guilt, since Jaron is human.
 
The issue is that he will neither hide or run. You read what he said about being a good person and he doesn't know the strength of our forces.

It is implied in the text that whether he fights or not will be up to Jaron and Dandeer. I don't want him to fight. However, if the fight comes to him? He either won't run because he will be in the city with his loved ones or he will run to lure the aliens away.

The gain here is the social link, which is high time we developed. Boy has secrets and needs friends and we should solve both before the seal is broken.

Besides, if we train him we can reliably tell him he is not ready when the scouts come sometime next year (not this one). He already proved willing to follow our lead and we can get used to that. We just tell him come the invasion he is the last line of defense for the city in case an alien slips by (which he won't be as I doubt dad would leave it undefended) not to mention whatever protection detail Dandeer thinks up for him.

As for giving him combat training triggering her? Needs must. She has to see her son is not Vegeta. If she believes he is becoming him, her saiyan mental illness holds no ground. It also shows us she won't get better once Jaffur is released. Also, there have been human fighters among the ancestors and she has nothing against those.

If she is afraid of him fighting, that is a valid concern but whether he does it or not, training increases his chances of survival. If she is afraid of him becoming like Vegeta, then that should help her shake the rationalization she made to rid him of guilt, since Jaron is human.

I'm not seeing it. Jaron is not exactly chomping at the bit. He's a non-issue in a year or two after the conspiracy completes. Dandeer is as well. Half the conspiracy involves ensuring that she won't get the Super Saiyan help she'd need to try again, and Jaffur certainly won't be letting his guard down around her. Making him stronger just makes him more capable of causing problems during the operation, and he is under magical compulsions which likely don't care how he feels about Kakara. The invasion isn't going to be a subtle scouting mission conducted by elite infiltrators. Stick him in the hall during the invasion and in a year or two grab him with IT for the plot. Don't risk provoking his mother into changing the scenario. One more mediocre-at-the-very-best and completely uncommanded combatant isn't worth risking a conspiracy that could get everybody involved executed for high treason.
 
[X] Follow the way of your ancestors. Set up a televised fighting tournament with several monitored practice/learning sessions leading up to the main battles. Like Aramian Idol for fighting. Have Jaron join in and try for world champion. The best way to learn is via real fighting anyways.


It gets him training, televised training, of his own will that is mother can't shut down politically. It disseminates Ki a little more, and we might find a new technique or two via this.

Also, IS THERE ANYTHING MORE DRAGON BALL THAN A KAMIFLIPPAN TOURNAMENT?!
 
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[X] Follow the way of your ancestors. Set up a televised fighting tournament with several monitored practice/learning sessions leading up to the main battles. Like Aramian Idol for fighting. Have Jaron join in and try for world champion. The best way to learn is via real fighting anyways.


It gets him training, televised training, of his own will that is mother can't shut down politically. It disseminates Ki a little more, and we might find a new technique or two via this.

Also, IS THERE ANYTHING MORE DRAGON BALL THAN A KAMIFLIPPAN TOURNAMENT?!
That's hilarious, but actually might not be a bad idea for an action next turn... we'd have to ban Saiyans from competing though, except possibly a few ringers to get the Garenhulder populace excited/interested?
 
Come on guys, we haven't had a proper fighting tournament yet, and it'll be a meeting point between human and Saiyan culture. You're also liable to see if there are any other humans that'll picked up ki relatively quickly.
Shouldn't that be, like 'Aramian idol'? I mean, I'm pretty sure it'd be 'Garenhuldan' or 'Garenhulder' or such like for the world, but more likely is just the local country.
Probably, changed.
That's hilarious, but actually might not be a bad idea for an action next turn... we'd have to ban Saiyans from competing though, except possibly a few ringers to get the Garenhulder populace excited/interested?
We don't have to ban Saiyans, just give a limit on power levels. It should be a good test of skill as well.
 
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[X] Fuck. Dandeer. You've tiptoed around her for long enough. Her son has ki, and he's on-camera as somebody who helped take Murk down. You have all the justification you need to teach him how to fight with ki. Teach Jaron, and damnDandeer's expressed feelings on the matter.

Probably wont win but god damn does it feel right.

Also anyone else here signed up for the Dragon Ball Fighter Z beta?
 
I'm not seeing it. Jaron is not exactly chomping at the bit. He's a non-issue in a year or two after the conspiracy completes. Dandeer is as well. Half the conspiracy involves ensuring that she won't get the Super Saiyan help she'd need to try again, and Jaffur certainly won't be letting his guard down around her. Making him stronger just makes him more capable of causing problems during the operation, and he is under magical compulsions which likely don't care how he feels about Kakara. The invasion isn't going to be a subtle scouting mission conducted by elite infiltrators. Stick him in the hall during the invasion and in a year or two grab him with IT for the plot. Don't risk provoking his mother into changing the scenario. One more mediocre-at-the-very-best and completely uncommanded combatant isn't worth risking a conspiracy that could get everybody involved executed for high treason.
In the order you brought them up:

Jaron is an important part of keeping Jaffur sane and in check after released so gaining influence with him now is worth it for the aftermath. Besides, he is clearly keeping secrets which we should get him to tell us just in case. Jaron is an untrained sorcerer and we have seen already what one of those can do, which means we would be better served if he came willingly, which he would be more inclined to do if he trusts us. Whatever information he has could avoid us last minute complications.

So what if half of the conspiracy is stopping her from getting super saiyan help? How does training Jaron give her more super saiyan help than the one she already has in Berra? Making her act would actually fracture her relationship with him more, which has already cracked after the issue with the nukes.

Making him stronger also makes him trust us more which simplifies the operation.

We don't know if he has magical compulsions. We haven't seen anything pointing to it bar the one about loving his mother, which would be an issue if we were trying to kill her. Which we aren't.

We can't stick him in the hall during the invasión because Dandeer is obsessed with keeping him out of saiyan society.

The conspiracy kind of falls flat if Jaron dies. Jaron, who has already jumped into a fight without any idea what he was doing. Jaron, who just told us his idea of a good person is the one who acts to help if they have the power to do so. Jaron, that does have the power to help and is likely to get stronger by the time the invasión comes. Jaron, who will already know to power up, fly and throw ki blasts by then, enough to fight but not to do so effectively.

As for him being mediocre at best? With the rate he is learning? Throwing ki blasts after just seeing them and learning to fly in a single day, who inherited enough insticts from Jaffur that he knows kung fu and goes for the throat. Not only does that point to him growing insanely fast but, if he fought, there is no freaking way he would do so unguarded as the Scion and his utility would be in terms of morale.

But the point is that, for all that you argue that he wouldn't make a difference in the fight? That is not the point I was making because, as we have seen in the update, he might not fight even if trained for fear of disappointing his mother. It would, indeed, be better if he didn't fight. However, my point is that if he did somehow end in the fight, it would be better if he knew to defend himself until reinforcements came to help him. Because there is a real chance he would get involved, not only because his moral compass and high power level compels him to fight whether we train him or not but because he is also on video beating the crap Tamar's BFF. And while he might be busy hunting Berra and Maya, that doesn't mean he won't reward whoever put us down so it is even likely that Jaron will be actively hunted during the invasión.
 
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Throwing Jaron at a tournament honestly seems like a pretty good decision:
  • It's a good way to teach him. We're good, but we can only fight in so many ways, meanwhile if he goes into the tournament via the training sessions leading up to it alone he should be clashing against at least like 6 different styles.
  • Since it's not direct training from us it will keep Dandeer from going full MURDER/SEAL against us. Also it'll have the popular support of the Vegetans since their Scion is still getting trained in ki even if sealed. Which, may prevent a civil war (if one is truly brewing as my paranoia insists).
  • It'll let us explore any compulsions and/or mental hangups Jaron has.
  • It'll be a good event to draw together both Saiyan and Garunhulden culture.
  • The televised training sessions will both be a good lead-in to the ki-training website later, and serve to 'humanize' ki-users to the other Garunlanders (or whatever the proper term is)
  • We might see an original technique or two.
  • It'll be super hype.
  • Training aaaaaaaarc!
  • It's a good way to showcase Maya (if she joins).
 
Throwing Jaron at a tournament honestly seems like a pretty good decision:
  • It's a good way to teach him. We're good, but we can only fight in so many ways, meanwhile if he goes into the tournament via the training sessions leading up to it alone he should be clashing against at least like 6 different styles.
  • Since it's not direct training from us it will keep Dandeer from going full MURDER/SEAL against us. Also it'll have the popular support of the Vegetans since their Scion is still getting trained in ki even if sealed. Which, may prevent a civil war (if one is truly brewing as my paranoia insists).
  • It'll let us explore any compulsions and/or mental hangups Jaron has.
  • It'll be a good event to draw together both Saiyan and Garunhulden culture.
  • The televised training sessions will both be a good lead-in to the ki-training website later, and serve to 'humanize' ki-users to the other Garunlanders (or whatever the proper term is)
  • We might see an original technique or two.
  • It'll be super hype.
  • Training aaaaaaaarc!
  • It's a good way to showcase Maya (if she joins).
Next year. He needs the basics first if he wants a chance and tensions are still high so showcasing even more ki users and what they can do is not a good idea yet. Either that or use the tournament to promote unity after we beat the aliens.
 
Throwing Jaron at a tournament honestly seems like a pretty good decision:
  • It's a good way to teach him. We're good, but we can only fight in so many ways, meanwhile if he goes into the tournament via the training sessions leading up to it alone he should be clashing against at least like 6 different styles.
  • Since it's not direct training from us it will keep Dandeer from going full MURDER/SEAL against us. Also it'll have the popular support of the Vegetans since their Scion is still getting trained in ki even if sealed. Which, may prevent a civil war (if one is truly brewing as my paranoia insists).
  • It'll let us explore any compulsions and/or mental hangups Jaron has.
  • It'll be a good event to draw together both Saiyan and Garunhulden culture.
  • The televised training sessions will both be a good lead-in to the ki-training website later, and serve to 'humanize' ki-users to the other Garunlanders (or whatever the proper term is)
  • We might see an original technique or two.
  • It'll be super hype.
  • Training aaaaaaaarc!
  • It's a good way to showcase Maya (if she joins).
Jaron is very shy. He wouldn't want an audience.
 
+ 1 to the two above. More importantly, he hasn't formed a rivalry with Karen or Maya so he has nobody to make a promise to meet in the finals.
 
[X] Fuck. Dandeer. You've tiptoed around her for long enough. Her son has ki, and he's on-camera as somebody who helped take Murk down. You have all the justification you need to teach him how to fight with ki. Teach Jaron, and damnDandeer's expressed feelings on the matter.

Probably wont win but god damn does it feel right.

Also anyone else here signed up for the Dragon Ball Fighter Z beta?
Signed up like 10 email accounts. Might give one away here if I get more than one.
 
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