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Dragon Ball: After the End

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Aranfan said:
@Bakkasama what do you think of my vote?
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I see no pbvious problema with it and it will probably be the one I will vote for. The only reason I haven't yet is because, for all that I criticize @Bommelom for having a really risky plan, he does kind of have a point about the council. Not because I think they are planning nything truly nefastuos but because it is obvious that the sealing will b part of the discussion. So while I do think it is a very risky maneuver, I can't entirely discard it as an option.

I still have one cookie left so if a plan with the infiltration wins, I would place it there. However, both the zenzu and multiform are worthy of it too. So right now I am trying to decide whether to go full ninja or not.
 
Bommelom said:
Firstly, we're going to be half the Saiyan law enforcement eventually, so we're going to get used to sticking our nose into other people's business.

Secondly, would you rather be completely blindsided by some action from the Cult that might potentially screw all our plans over? From a meta perspective I can't imagine this Council not resulting in some sort of decision/plan we'd dislike or that would at least interfere with our own plans. For example, what if they decided to unseal Jaffur on their own? They don't know about Jaron, so I'm pretty sure their unsealing would kill him off, and if Jaffur's grown to care about Jaron at that point, I can't imagine Jaffur not going apeshit on the cult, which would pretty much lead to the collapse of Saiyan society.

Of course, this is just an example and there's plenty of other things they might decide to do instead, but I'd really like to know now rather than be blindsided later.
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Assuming we did know about their plans, and that those plans were counter to our desires. What could we do about it? We can't go to grandma without tipping her off, and going to dad will just make it harder to eventually unseal Jaffur.

And in the meantime, it would be much better use of time from my perspective to patch things up with dad or getting more comfortable as Karen than to skulk around listening to priests have a religous debate that we can't really do anything about. Because face it: unless we're willing to bust out the combat, we're going to have to accommodate whatever they decide.

And if they do decide to unseal Jaffur? Good luck getting past Berra without us, which means they'll have to bring us into their plans anyway and we'll be able to tell them about Jaron then.
 
Aranfan said:
Assuming we did know about their plans, and that those plans were counter to our desires. What could we do about it? We can't go to grandma without tipping her off, and going to dad will just make it harder to eventually unseal Jaffur.
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I'd argue that telling Berra about the Ancestor Cult wanting to unseal Jaffur would actually make it easier for us to unseal him, as it'd convince him that we're on his and Dandeer's side. Him and/or grandma being angry about us infiltrating the council is still a problem, but, as I said earlier, we could pass it off as a vision or ask Sensei to do the same.

Secondly, there's plenty of other bad things they could be plotting in there that'd be far easier to tell Berra about, such as a plot to excommunicate Dandeer, burn her for heresy and then put Clan Vegeta under theocracy (the last thing's not that probable, but them killing Dandeer is certainly a possibility).

Aranfan said:
And if they do decide to unseal Jaffur? Good luck getting past Berra without us, which means they'll have to bring us into their plans anyway and we'll be able to tell them about Jaron then.
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They don't, actually. Firstly, they can just grab Instant Transmission in, grab Jaron/Jaffur while he's alone, Instant Transmission out, and then unseal him. No fight with Berra needed.

Secondly, Apra's a member, and while she's currently somewhat weaker than Berra, she can still at least stall him, and that's if she doesn't train herself back up to her prime in preparation to whatever they're plotting.

Thirdly, if they really wanted a second Super Saiyan for any sort of plot, I think there's a much higher chance of them involving Yammar than us, as Apra would absolutely not them to involve and therefore endanger us.
Bakkasama said:
I still have one cookie left so if a plan with the infiltration wins, I would place it there. However, both the zenzu and multiform are worthy of it too. So right now I am trying to decide whether to go full ninja or not.
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Currently I get the feeling that the infiltration wouldn't just be a single roll but consist of multiple story updates (if we're lucky it could give us a trait), so I don't think we can spend cookies on it beforehand.
 
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@KaintukeeBob , @Macros

I'm thinking of cutting something to Examine the "Driven" trait, as you have said you'll vote for me, which do you think I should cut? Or do you think I shouldn't cut anything and leave the vote as is?
 
Bommelom said:
I don't think we have a malus to learning Multiform (though I'd certainly use a cookie on it if my plan wins). Pacifist doesn't give a malus to all Ki Projection techniques, only offensive ones. We don't receive maluses to improving Solar Flare and Instant Transmission, for example (I actually asked about this), so I'd assume we wouldn't get a malus to learn Multi-Form either.

But, might as well ask. @PoptartProdigy, does our Pacifist trait give us a malus to learning the Multi-Form technique?
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Ki Projection in general is, (as the update notes) suffering from no malus as a result of how much of a prodigy you are. Multi-form, given that you're explicitly interested in it for the purposes of multiplying productivity and letting you sneak places, would actually benefit from a bit of a bonus, making success all-but-assured. After all, you aren't literally less talented at always-lethal techniques, you just don't like them and that holds you back.
 
[x] Plan Aranfan

Bommelom said:
Secondly, they can't actually catch us. Assuming we disguise ourselves and mask our face, we can Instant Transmission away if we're discovered and all they'll know is that someone/some kid with Instant Transmission spied on them with no way to find the culprit. If we manage to learn Multi-Form and use it to give ourselves an alibi, they'll be even more screwed.
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Bommelom said:
It's not like they can determine our skill with the Instant Transmission if they only see us using it once, though.
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PoptartProdigy said:
It's not the most common, and there aren't terribly many nine-year-olds (or, by the time the Council takes place, ten-year-olds; your birthday is in June and the meeting is in July) who know it, but it's not unheard of. It's a challenging technique that's perceived as being even harder. There are maybe three hundred kids at or plausibly near your age who know it, to varying degrees of skill. Thus, if you keep multi-form a secret and have a rock-solid alibi, you'll be clear of suspicion. This all presumes, naturally, that you get caught.
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... wait, what? I'm sorry, I find this unbelievable: Even if they can't recognize our Ki per se or anything, there's seers, there's sorcery, there's all kinds of reasons we could get caught even if we Instant Transmit out. Why would it be at all safe just given the risks we know? (let alone any we don't).
 
Aranfan said:
So, what are the names of the people in karen's immediate family?
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You father, Berra (Masque name: Bruce). Your mother, Kala (Masque name: Katherine). Your brother, Mato (Masque name: Mark). Your sister, Fasha (Masque name: Farah). Your little brother, Endivan (Masque name: Edward).

Terrabrand said:
... wait, what? I'm sorry, I find this unbelievable: Even if they can't recognize our Ki per se or anything, there's seers, there's sorcery, there's all kinds of reasons we could get caught even if we Instant Transmit out. Why would it be at all safe just given the risks we know? (let alone any we don't).
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The ki is fine because you can suppress if needed and don't need to power up to sense somebody. Sorcery is fine because there's little they can do once you're gone. Seers...less certain. Given what Sensei has told you, searching for somebody blindly is prohibitively difficult, and commensurately expensive. I wouldn't say you had a good chance if Kakara knew of something that might snarl her up, and I wouldn't give you an option if you were guaranteed to get caught and irreversibly trapped. There might be hidden hazards to things, and you might get blindsided by the actions of others, but I'm not going to trick you by lying to you about your odds.

EDIT: That's not to say that I won't give you options that are bad ideas. Going on the Sealing now, for instance, I'm I don't need to tell anybody would end badly. But if I come out and say something is okay, it's fine.
 
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PoptartProdigy said:
The ki is fine because you can suppress if needed and don't need to power up to sense somebody. Sorcery is fine because there's little they can do once you're gone. Seers...less certain. Given what Sensei has told you, searching for somebody blindly is prohibitively difficult, and commensurately expensive. I wouldn't say you had a good chance if Kakara knew of something that might snarl her up, and I wouldn't give you an option if you were guaranteed to get caught and irreversibly trapped. There might be hidden hazards to things, and you might get blindsided by the actions of others, but I'm not going to trick you by lying to you about your odds.

EDIT: That's not to say that I won't give you options that are bad ideas. Going on the Sealing now, for instance, I'm I don't need to tell anybody would end badly. But if I come out and say something is okay, it's fine.
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To clarify, I never thought you might be trying to trick us, I simply felt that, with what we knew, it seemed inconceivable it wouldn't be risky at best, and thought that perhaps you had not thought through the relevancy of the seers or the like. But since you seem to have reasons for each, I will accept that it's your ruling and perhaps even logical, as strange as it still feels to me.
 
Is there any canon example of Ki-based invisibility? It manipulates light, bend atoms fast enough to avoid fissioning the atmosphere or even producing sonic booms, and solar flare at least concentrates ambient light. With her prodigal talent it would seem a good investment, especially if it was a generally unknown application.
 
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Lailoken said:
Is there any canon example of Ki-based invisibility? It manipulates light, bend atoms fast enough to avoid fissioning the atmosphere or even producing sonic booms, and solar flare at least concentrates ambient light. With her prodigal talent it would seem a good investment, especially if it was a generally unknown application.
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Closest is the after image technique. Or the invisible man, but that trick might have been magic
 
I think we should try to design it. It fits with what we have seen ki do, it being unknown makes it even more useful, and combined with multiform and Kakara's natural IT, flight, and ki-manipulation talents would be extremely potent.

Plus, I want to combine it with Great Ape form just to screw with people. Nobody expects ninja-Godzilla.
 
After the 23th tournament most of the z fighters fought by sensing ki though, so a ki technique that makes you invisible wouldn't be that useful unless you could mask its ki simultaneously.
 
[x] Plan Aranfan

@Aranfan, concerning your question, if I had to sacrifice one thing, it probably would be the oozaru training, but it seems to be quite popular among voters, so it's your choice. I personally don't care all that much for it, but meh.
 
Lailoken said:
Is there any canon example of Ki-based invisibility? It manipulates light, bend atoms fast enough to avoid fissioning the atmosphere or even producing sonic booms, and solar flare at least concentrates ambient light. With her prodigal talent it would seem a good investment, especially if it was a generally unknown application.
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I don't think there has been a 'pure' style of invisibility. As mentioned the closest that has been seen in DB (or its sequels) are all primarily speed based. The Afterimage technique, or Goku in the World Martial Arts tournament (I THINK fighting Krillin) just moving from side to side so fast he was invisible.
 
Bakkasama said:
After the 23th tournament most of the z fighters fought by sensing ki though, so a ki technique that makes you invisible wouldn't be that useful unless you could mask its ki simultaneously.
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Well. We already know how to supress our ki well enough that it takes someone with sensing on our level to detect us. So, as long as they aren't mutually exclusive... Even if it they make each other harder, so that someone a level below where we are can detect us, that's still useful.
 
Aranfan said:
But it wouldn't be blind. If we got caught couldn't they scry the past of the location we were in to determine who it was?
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More or less, but I'm giving Kakara the benefit of the doubt in assuming that she'll take precautions to hide her face. And Seers have no special ability to follow you once you vip out.

Lailoken said:
Is there any canon example of Ki-based invisibility? It manipulates light, bend atoms fast enough to avoid fissioning the atmosphere or even producing sonic booms, and solar flare at least concentrates ambient light. With her prodigal talent it would seem a good investment, especially if it was a generally unknown application.
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Ask again once your Ki Talents are at Elite across the board.
 
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