Dragon Ball: After the End
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Especially considering the focus on precise ki manipulation.
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
[X] Actually, Lord Vegeta has the authority to say whether his son can fight or not, even sealed. And with the secret of Ki out, we can simply talk directly to him. Ask Valentine Somerlad for permission to train his son in how to fight.
-[X] Dandeer has to be in the room
You know
Normally I'm against torturing Dandeer
But I really want to see explode.
-[X] Dandeer has to be in the room
You know
Normally I'm against torturing Dandeer
But I really want to see explode.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I hope we train ki manipulation next year. The high energy training room is giving me a bunch of ideas of omakes for it.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Glad to hear it!
Headcanon Follows:
I figure there has to be something like the High Energy Room, probably several such rooms.
Outlier "planet-exploding" attacks aside, even the typical blasts you see thrown around by people at, say, Frieza's power level are the equivalent of nuclear bombs. And I'm not just talking about his final form, either; the stuff he was doing earlier was on that level too. Mountains getting outright vaporized, things of that nature.
A place where people actually practice attacks like that is, almost by definition, NOT a place you can go without dying if you have a power level anything less than the power of, say, Namek Saga Krillin. Even if everyone is observing 'range safety' rules to the best of their ability, and that is questionably possible given that a lot of the techniques have to be practiced in three dimensions or involve active sparring against a live target... yeah, it's a problem.
So picture those training chambers 'Karen' had Maya carving out to practice her powers back in Year Three, but scaled up to be useful for people one hundred to one thousand times stronger.
...
You need a room buried about as far down in Garenhuld's crust as reasonably possible. It's a big room. The floor is covered in random shrapnel and debris from more massive explosions and blasts and beams than anyone can count, but it doesn't matter because no one incapable of flight has set foot in the chamber for centuries. The wards that muffle ki signatures aren't enough by themselves. You need walls, ceilings, and floors that can tank ki blasts at power levels up into the tens of millions, and be at most cratered and scarred rather than just having massive, building-sized holes blown in them.
This is a place you could credibly imprison an oozaru and, with a straight face, say "it's okay, he can't break anything." You might be wrong, but it wouldn't be a stupid statement to make.
Royals reserve (one of) the High Energy Room(s) for super-saiyan training of new Scions. It's an established prerogative. Like reserve one, because they have to master the transformation where no one is watching. That's the biggest argument for there being more than one such room.
The Talts managed to train fifty-something super-saiyans because they, collectively, were able to use one such room on multiple occasions for the "parties" Poptart Prodigy alluded to. The High Energy Rooms are far enough down, and warded well enough, that nobody realized what they were up to until it was too late.
There are saiyans who never set foot inside a High Energy Room. If you're not actively planning to train up your power level into the hundreds of thousands at some point in your life, it will never be anything other than an unsafe place for you to go. If you're not planning to train up into the millions, there's no good reason to spend time there. From a mere human's point of view, it's an uninhabitable hell where some crazed band of super-monkey-heroes randomly set off nuclear bombs and fire mountain-searing laser blasts at each other, all the time.
Kakara? She feels safe and comfortable enough to think of it as a place to study, when she's trying quirky ways to get around her problem with reflexive GRRR at thinking about Dandeer.
Headcanon Follows:
I figure there has to be something like the High Energy Room, probably several such rooms.
Outlier "planet-exploding" attacks aside, even the typical blasts you see thrown around by people at, say, Frieza's power level are the equivalent of nuclear bombs. And I'm not just talking about his final form, either; the stuff he was doing earlier was on that level too. Mountains getting outright vaporized, things of that nature.
A place where people actually practice attacks like that is, almost by definition, NOT a place you can go without dying if you have a power level anything less than the power of, say, Namek Saga Krillin. Even if everyone is observing 'range safety' rules to the best of their ability, and that is questionably possible given that a lot of the techniques have to be practiced in three dimensions or involve active sparring against a live target... yeah, it's a problem.
So picture those training chambers 'Karen' had Maya carving out to practice her powers back in Year Three, but scaled up to be useful for people one hundred to one thousand times stronger.
...
You need a room buried about as far down in Garenhuld's crust as reasonably possible. It's a big room. The floor is covered in random shrapnel and debris from more massive explosions and blasts and beams than anyone can count, but it doesn't matter because no one incapable of flight has set foot in the chamber for centuries. The wards that muffle ki signatures aren't enough by themselves. You need walls, ceilings, and floors that can tank ki blasts at power levels up into the tens of millions, and be at most cratered and scarred rather than just having massive, building-sized holes blown in them.
This is a place you could credibly imprison an oozaru and, with a straight face, say "it's okay, he can't break anything." You might be wrong, but it wouldn't be a stupid statement to make.
Royals reserve (one of) the High Energy Room(s) for super-saiyan training of new Scions. It's an established prerogative. Like reserve one, because they have to master the transformation where no one is watching. That's the biggest argument for there being more than one such room.
The Talts managed to train fifty-something super-saiyans because they, collectively, were able to use one such room on multiple occasions for the "parties" Poptart Prodigy alluded to. The High Energy Rooms are far enough down, and warded well enough, that nobody realized what they were up to until it was too late.
There are saiyans who never set foot inside a High Energy Room. If you're not actively planning to train up your power level into the hundreds of thousands at some point in your life, it will never be anything other than an unsafe place for you to go. If you're not planning to train up into the millions, there's no good reason to spend time there. From a mere human's point of view, it's an uninhabitable hell where some crazed band of super-monkey-heroes randomly set off nuclear bombs and fire mountain-searing laser blasts at each other, all the time.
Kakara? She feels safe and comfortable enough to think of it as a place to study, when she's trying quirky ways to get around her problem with reflexive GRRR at thinking about Dandeer.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I imagine that the room is mostly made of huge thick slabs of metal. That way damage can be fixed just by melting it all back into place. Also huge amounts of welding.
All the heavier elements like metals tend to sink towards the center of the planet. I can think of no reason Saiyans can't mine out the center of the planet so they likely have ridiculous amounts of metal. So much that they can't sell it on the unmasked market because people would ask questions, but useful for training rooms. The walls could be miles thick of solid metal.
All the heavier elements like metals tend to sink towards the center of the planet. I can think of no reason Saiyans can't mine out the center of the planet so they likely have ridiculous amounts of metal. So much that they can't sell it on the unmasked market because people would ask questions, but useful for training rooms. The walls could be miles thick of solid metal.
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Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
The heat of Molten metal can still kill a Super Saiyan.
Also generally speaking you need the core of a planet your living on, thats where all the gravity comes from!
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Keep scale in mind. They don't need the whole core or even a appreciable percent of it.
Also can mere heat kill a Super Saiyan?
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Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
Thats why they keep throwing Broly into the sun.
At least in the alternate timelines he doesn't come back pissed off and on fire.
Which doesn't make much sense to me. Now, being unable to breathe properly because of superheated air, if it's not toxic in the first place, is something I can kinda understand.
Either way, the Exiles have developed solutions to the whole "heat" and "breathing" issues in the past few centuries.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Then you get into questions of why they need air. We use oxygen to create energy. High level Ki users obviously don't get their energy from oxygen or anything else from their environment. It is not like they breath in the whole atmosphere with every breath.
@PoptartProdigy : How much medical research has been done on the effects of ki on the body?
@PoptartProdigy : How much medical research has been done on the effects of ki on the body?
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Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - Dragon Ball: After the End | Page 636 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 15911-16361]
##### NetTally 1.9.9
[X] The time has finally come. You need to talk to Dandeer again.
-[X] Ask Dad and Grandma for advice. Doubles as insurance as they know what's happening.
-[X] Also, double-check that Jaron actually got permission for the training. If he didn't, you'll offer a formal apology to Dandeer, because whatever your feelings for her are, it was genuinely negligent on your part.
-[X] Talk to Dandeer in private about Jaron and his wish to fight.
--[X] Also ask her about her long term plan. The current situation does not seem tenable long term. Jaron can't be kept in an infantile state of dependency forever, and the Vegetans obviously aren't happy with him not being allowed to train.
No. of Votes: 20
[X] Actually, Lord Vegeta has the authority to say whether his son can fight or not, even sealed. And with the secret of Ki out, we can simply talk directly to him. Ask Valentine Somerlad for permission to train his son in how to fight.
No. of Votes: 8
[X] Fuck. Dandeer. You've tiptoed around her for long enough. Her son has ki, and he's on-camera as somebody who helped take Murk down. You have all the justification you need to teach him how to fight with ki. Teach Jaron, and damn Dandeer's expressed feelings on the matter.
No. of Votes: 6
[X] *Take a long, deep breath* You hate Dandeer, Dandeer hates you. Surprisingly (not) You know that she hates you and she knows that you hate her. But her son wants to learn how to fight. Not her first born son, but her second son. And as much as you want to make that decision... you really can't not without putting everything that you have been working towards in danger. Which means that you are being put in a terrible, horrible position. You need to talk to Dandeer about this. Both in the Masque and out of it. You hate this idea, but this is the best way to handle things because she does not handle even the image of things not being run by her. And the worst part, if we refuse to do this... Jaron will go off and do this on his own. Dandeer has to understand that... Right? He is doing this because he wants to be a good son. So either she has to convince him not to do this... or she has to let him do this. The other option is to reveal that she knows about Ki and Magic, because Jaron is figuring it out on his own, and if he decides that he is going to do this... then he is going to do this unless she actually stops him.
No. of Votes: 2
[X] Lailoken
No. of Votes: 1
[X] Actually, Lord Vegeta has the authority to say whether his son can fight or not, even sealed. And with the secret of Ki out, we can simply talk directly to him. Ask Valentine Somerlad for permission to train his son in how to fight.
-[X] Dandeer has to be in the room
No. of Votes: 1
Total No. of Voters: 38
##### NetTally 1.9.9
[X] The time has finally come. You need to talk to Dandeer again.
-[X] Ask Dad and Grandma for advice. Doubles as insurance as they know what's happening.
-[X] Also, double-check that Jaron actually got permission for the training. If he didn't, you'll offer a formal apology to Dandeer, because whatever your feelings for her are, it was genuinely negligent on your part.
-[X] Talk to Dandeer in private about Jaron and his wish to fight.
--[X] Also ask her about her long term plan. The current situation does not seem tenable long term. Jaron can't be kept in an infantile state of dependency forever, and the Vegetans obviously aren't happy with him not being allowed to train.
No. of Votes: 20
[X] Actually, Lord Vegeta has the authority to say whether his son can fight or not, even sealed. And with the secret of Ki out, we can simply talk directly to him. Ask Valentine Somerlad for permission to train his son in how to fight.
No. of Votes: 8
[X] Fuck. Dandeer. You've tiptoed around her for long enough. Her son has ki, and he's on-camera as somebody who helped take Murk down. You have all the justification you need to teach him how to fight with ki. Teach Jaron, and damn Dandeer's expressed feelings on the matter.
No. of Votes: 6
[X] *Take a long, deep breath* You hate Dandeer, Dandeer hates you. Surprisingly (not) You know that she hates you and she knows that you hate her. But her son wants to learn how to fight. Not her first born son, but her second son. And as much as you want to make that decision... you really can't not without putting everything that you have been working towards in danger. Which means that you are being put in a terrible, horrible position. You need to talk to Dandeer about this. Both in the Masque and out of it. You hate this idea, but this is the best way to handle things because she does not handle even the image of things not being run by her. And the worst part, if we refuse to do this... Jaron will go off and do this on his own. Dandeer has to understand that... Right? He is doing this because he wants to be a good son. So either she has to convince him not to do this... or she has to let him do this. The other option is to reveal that she knows about Ki and Magic, because Jaron is figuring it out on his own, and if he decides that he is going to do this... then he is going to do this unless she actually stops him.
No. of Votes: 2
[X] Lailoken
No. of Votes: 1
[X] Actually, Lord Vegeta has the authority to say whether his son can fight or not, even sealed. And with the secret of Ki out, we can simply talk directly to him. Ask Valentine Somerlad for permission to train his son in how to fight.
-[X] Dandeer has to be in the room
No. of Votes: 1
Total No. of Voters: 38
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Well, the moon gives off weird moon rays that interact with Saiyans. Maybe DBZ stars are just even more dangerous on the inside than real stars?
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I am down for Dragon Ball Mad Science Quest
- Location
- Earth
[X] The time has finally come. You need to talk to Dandeer again.
-[X] Ask Dad and Grandma for advice. Doubles as insurance as they know what's happening.
-[X] Also, double-check that Jaron actually got permission for the training. If he didn't, you'll offer a formal apology to Dandeer, because whatever your feelings for her are, it was genuinely negligent on your part.
-[X] Talk to Dandeer in private about Jaron and his wish to fight.
--[X] Also ask her about her long term plan. The current situation does not seem tenable long term. Jaron can't be kept in an infantile state of dependency forever, and the Vegetans obviously aren't happy with him not being allowed to train.
-[X] Ask Dad and Grandma for advice. Doubles as insurance as they know what's happening.
-[X] Also, double-check that Jaron actually got permission for the training. If he didn't, you'll offer a formal apology to Dandeer, because whatever your feelings for her are, it was genuinely negligent on your part.
-[X] Talk to Dandeer in private about Jaron and his wish to fight.
--[X] Also ask her about her long term plan. The current situation does not seem tenable long term. Jaron can't be kept in an infantile state of dependency forever, and the Vegetans obviously aren't happy with him not being allowed to train.
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
Eh serious face on here. I might spoiler this, since in theory it could be drawing a lot of the theory I use the party sorcerer in the RP, so it may dip into a few bits of musing about events that won't make sense out of context or the rest of you might not really care about (since the higher level stuff is currently out of the grasp of the quest).
The TLDR of it, I'll post here though. Considering that the Exiles only have the one planet and how much of the civilization is Ki based, I suspect most 'high energy training rooms' are more magical based then Ki or Material based at this level of the Exiles Esoteric infrastructure. .
The TLDR of it, I'll post here though. Considering that the Exiles only have the one planet and how much of the civilization is Ki based, I suspect most 'high energy training rooms' are more magical based then Ki or Material based at this level of the Exiles Esoteric infrastructure. .
When I think of the exiles, I honestly think 'paranoid' would be a word that could be an understatement for their security measures. They are after all hiding from their Enemy, and from the galaxy at large as a side effect of that, so anything at all that could risk their secret coming out would be a criminal offense at best. Even when fighting the invaders for example, no one really went for a power level of over a million, the type of level that even Fodder like Krillen eventually surpassed rather easily. So any time someone might suggest a new way of shielding themselves against Ki Sense, I suspect its subject to years or even decades of analysis before it could hope to see general use (more then a little Garenhild influence).Above all after all, they need to contain their power, their Saiyan heritage and their very existence from the world around them. While Bulma might have been able to create rooms that could contain the strength of Super Saiyan 2+ Vegeta in a cave with a box of scraps, the Exiles lack such a frighteningly clever mind, and likely possessed whatever genius that had been left behind to be placed in their escape vessels. Considering their surprise at discovering the Ki shielding in the Invaders vessel, its rather clear that they haven't had much innovation in that field, if at all. Now if someone approved the Tinkering I wanted, we could have gotten to fixing that, but alas!So while a technological solution out, perhaps there is a material solution they could have used?
We know that distance can work for smaller power levels, considering the tunneling she did while training Maya for the first few times. However we know that from WoG (I think, it could just be from other discussions elsewhere) that by the time you hit Super Saiyan, you can easily be detected from anywhere in the Solar System. This is even if you have a few planets you and the sensor. Meanwhile if you hit Super Saiyan 2, you can expand that range to multiple systems, despite the intervening space or many materials that might be in the way.
Thats not to say that there might not be things that can block the Ki Sense or prevent that from happening. After all, there had to have been something that the ships were amde from that allowed the Saiyans to escape the enemy enough to set up their own planets. Perhaps the oldest and most 'valued' of the training rooms, the type the various Houses fight over and keep secret from everyone that isn't the most trusted of friends might have been made from the remains of the original ships, the only places the Exiles fight safe enough to train for a while (at reduced levels)Maybe the solution used by the Invaders is material based rather then technological? Either way, considering the trouble training Maya at the moment, its quite possible we might eventually run out of places where we can take her to train undetectably from invaders without bringing her further into the secret.
We've got no clue (no tinkering!)
Sorcery!
Now sorcery is something we know the Garenhilders have to. Plus we know the limits of what they can generally contain with their current wards as well, with Golden Oozaru seriously risking their collapse. We know that the Goun make fairly good use of the limited resources that they possessed, and that the Vegetans might do the same, if 50% of current roster didn't involve being Dandeer. We also know from the existence of the Seal and the masque that they tend to be rather good at containing or sealing magics, even if they had to inevent and build all their lore from the ground up (or stole it from the past with Seers).
I suspect the earliest history of the exiles, once they managed to start pushing against the limits of what might be trained in their hastily converted training rooms, dealt with the issues and trauma of the first 'awakenings', slowly began to test and develop what they can do, until the construction of the first 'major' training chamber (that became the Great Hall). As the limits of the subtle arts began to be slowly developed, so to did the magical 'infrastructure', the collective works and master/apprentice chains that formed a sorcerors linage, their heritage.
As each link in a chain was forged, the wards around the 'major' rooms grew stronger, and the various houses could build and maintain their own separate training halls, away from the major centres. If control over the clans had become more centralized and united, then perhaps the sorcerors could have eventually been brought further under the control of a United Royal house, so careful tabs could be kept on who controlled and maintained how many different warded rooms that didn't appear to be used actively for anything, yet showed strange wear and tear as they prepared for a Super Saiyan rebellion.
In the future, perhaps if we were playing a Jaffur Quest, eventually the methods of creating the various wards and training rooms might begin to crosspollintate and combine, perhaps the alien technological methods could be enhanced with the exiles strongest wards to create a Room that could allow the Lords to gain access to the second Form, and further the gap between themselves and the 'common' rabble.
Then it might be become the Third Form that is anathema for a lord to reach for
A few decades more, then perhaps the first form might be allowed for certain members of the common rabble, despite their desires.
Another few centuries, then perhaps the Lords can safely reach the third, banning the Fourth!
Step by Step, Shoulder by Shoulder, each generation preparing the lift the next on its shoulders, slowing building the infrastructure that might one day forge a glowing giant Saiyan middle finger aimed directly at the enemies backside.
We know that distance can work for smaller power levels, considering the tunneling she did while training Maya for the first few times. However we know that from WoG (I think, it could just be from other discussions elsewhere) that by the time you hit Super Saiyan, you can easily be detected from anywhere in the Solar System. This is even if you have a few planets you and the sensor. Meanwhile if you hit Super Saiyan 2, you can expand that range to multiple systems, despite the intervening space or many materials that might be in the way.
Thats not to say that there might not be things that can block the Ki Sense or prevent that from happening. After all, there had to have been something that the ships were amde from that allowed the Saiyans to escape the enemy enough to set up their own planets. Perhaps the oldest and most 'valued' of the training rooms, the type the various Houses fight over and keep secret from everyone that isn't the most trusted of friends might have been made from the remains of the original ships, the only places the Exiles fight safe enough to train for a while (at reduced levels)Maybe the solution used by the Invaders is material based rather then technological? Either way, considering the trouble training Maya at the moment, its quite possible we might eventually run out of places where we can take her to train undetectably from invaders without bringing her further into the secret.
We've got no clue (no tinkering!)
Sorcery!
Now sorcery is something we know the Garenhilders have to. Plus we know the limits of what they can generally contain with their current wards as well, with Golden Oozaru seriously risking their collapse. We know that the Goun make fairly good use of the limited resources that they possessed, and that the Vegetans might do the same, if 50% of current roster didn't involve being Dandeer. We also know from the existence of the Seal and the masque that they tend to be rather good at containing or sealing magics, even if they had to inevent and build all their lore from the ground up (or stole it from the past with Seers).
I suspect the earliest history of the exiles, once they managed to start pushing against the limits of what might be trained in their hastily converted training rooms, dealt with the issues and trauma of the first 'awakenings', slowly began to test and develop what they can do, until the construction of the first 'major' training chamber (that became the Great Hall). As the limits of the subtle arts began to be slowly developed, so to did the magical 'infrastructure', the collective works and master/apprentice chains that formed a sorcerors linage, their heritage.
As each link in a chain was forged, the wards around the 'major' rooms grew stronger, and the various houses could build and maintain their own separate training halls, away from the major centres. If control over the clans had become more centralized and united, then perhaps the sorcerors could have eventually been brought further under the control of a United Royal house, so careful tabs could be kept on who controlled and maintained how many different warded rooms that didn't appear to be used actively for anything, yet showed strange wear and tear as they prepared for a Super Saiyan rebellion.
In the future, perhaps if we were playing a Jaffur Quest, eventually the methods of creating the various wards and training rooms might begin to crosspollintate and combine, perhaps the alien technological methods could be enhanced with the exiles strongest wards to create a Room that could allow the Lords to gain access to the second Form, and further the gap between themselves and the 'common' rabble.
Then it might be become the Third Form that is anathema for a lord to reach for
A few decades more, then perhaps the first form might be allowed for certain members of the common rabble, despite their desires.
Another few centuries, then perhaps the Lords can safely reach the third, banning the Fourth!
Step by Step, Shoulder by Shoulder, each generation preparing the lift the next on its shoulders, slowing building the infrastructure that might one day forge a glowing giant Saiyan middle finger aimed directly at the enemies backside.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I wish there had been a seer PC in the RP. Then we would have a better idea of what they can do and how to take advantage of it.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
So what do we do if Lord Vegeta demands that we teach him as well?
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
Take a picture of Dandeers face and frame it on our wall.
@Sucal, two issue with I have with your long-ass post:
1) Assuming that said "cross-pollination" doesn't exist currently.
2) That the non-Training Grounds wards could contain a Super Saiyans power.
Honestly, I'm curious as to how many magic users there are amongst the Exiles. My estimate places them around 150 to 300.
1) Assuming that said "cross-pollination" doesn't exist currently.
2) That the non-Training Grounds wards could contain a Super Saiyans power.
Honestly, I'm curious as to how many magic users there are amongst the Exiles. My estimate places them around 150 to 300.
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
1) We haven't started studying the Aliens vessels yet.
2) Worked for the Talts
3) Its unknown. Supposedly all but 2 of them are Gokun
Actually, the Talts used the Training Hall. Back then, you could reserve the whole thing for a private get-together. Not so much anymore.
And yes, I know it's unknown. But we have some information:
The ability to use magic is rare then 1 in 20.
Magic usage is viewed with prejudice to an even worse degree then the Sight.
Most Saiyans that possess the Sight don't get trained in it.
The Exile population is 300,000, split roughly evenly between both Clans.
So, if we say the odds of having magical ability are 1%, then of the ~150,000 Gokuns, ~1,500 possess the ability to use magic. If only 10%-20% get training, that's 150-300 Sorcerers.
Mind, these could be way off. It might be that only 0.5% possess the ability, and only like 2% get trained, for roughly 15 Gokun Sorcerers.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I hope that somebody is.