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I'm hoping that now that Ki usage is free game, we'll get more AP.
I'm kind of skeptical of that. Kakara spends basically every hour of every day working at something or other. I don't think "keeping the Masquerade a secret" is actually consuming that much of her time. Plus, a lot of her actions have to be taken among saiyan society, in saiyan form. For those purposes, the idea that the Masquerade has evolved from "saiyan ki users hiding from humans" to "saiyan ki users pretending to be human ki users that live more openly among humans" isn't going to help.

Let's look at a representative example of a hypothetical plan for Year 5's actions (incidentally, Kakara's thirteenth birthday falls some time in this year, right). Courtesy of Bakkasama...

...

School: 2
Contacting Jaffur: 1
Seer training: 1
Train Tien Style: 1
Train Maya: 1
Research [Perfect Multiform]: 1
Scion observations: 1

Seer training, Scion observations, training Tien Style, and researching Perfect Multiform probably have to be done in saiyan form. We can't be seen in public in Masqued form reading books full of saiyan literature and saiyan technique history.

Contacting Jaffur may well be harder depending on how Dandeer reacts to recent developments. At the very least, doing it with Seer powers still requires us to make time to actually sleep in saiyan form. Which Kakara almost never does, instead using time spent in her Masqued form as a substitute for sleep as a saiyan and vice versa.

Training Maya could get easier or harder depending on how her parents react to all this.

So that's about six actions worth of activities that probably don't get any easier as a result of the Masquerade breach.

...

School is already done under Masque but does not change noticeably as a result of ki powers being an overt, open thing, unless we do something goofy and blatant like have Karen use Multiform to complete all our homework during school hours by being in class and in the library doing our homework at the same time... which is actually not such a bad idea. Okaaay, that could conceivably save us an action. IF we make it very clear to everyone (including our parents) that we know Multiform and are in fact rather good at it due to our own efforts to study in secret in past years, AND IF this doesn't somehow cause more problems than it solves at school.

We MIGHT be able to use Multiform to ace school. I do not know. That could conceivably save us an action point, or reduce the action point cost of doing well in school, which amounts to the same thing. On the other hand, there may be unforeseen obstacles to doing this- such as our parents saying "no, that's a bad idea, because if the principal gets the idea that you can be in two places at once you will be a test-cheating and truancy hazard forever."

...

@Bakkasama then listed several other things we COULD do with the remaining actions (he assumed there would be thirteen total, so the above list uses eight and leaves five).

- Raising our grades
- Explaining to the Misfits what the heck is up with Ki since we flew in front of the whole school. [This is already partly covered]
- Training Jaron in Ki.
- Explaining to the world at large what was that about.
- Training our machine sense .
- Negotiating with the scouts and aliens
- Doing something about the Trasteia-Aramai war
- Examine the Reflective trait.
- Mato and Jaffur style.
- Social

Basically, none of these get easier because of the Masquerade breach, except insofar as some of them are only made relevant/possible BY that breach. About the only way I can imagine the breach making our action economy better is if it lets us do our schoolwork in less time
 
Would be nice if we could combine training the misfits, better living with ki and and dealing with the maskerade break in one action. (Make a blog. Ask the misfits to help.)

Honestly we are likely better off not teaching the misfits the more combat uses of ki. They are unlikely to be strong enough to matter against the scouts in any case.
 
Well, don't blame me, it was Bakkasama's list. Being charitable rather than just gratuitously assuming other people are morons for no reason, we can reasonably infer that Bakkasama meant "train the skills we need to obtain in order to train Machine Sense."

...

I agree that actually training the Misfits to use their ki as superheroes is a Very Bad Plan, at least in the short run. And we should not even consider training them unless we can make them swear they won't even try to fight any aliens, because no kidding the aliens will straight up murder them. Even then it's probably a bad idea. They're children, they may decide it's an exciting adventure instead of suicidally idiotic.

The AE fighters will be better off NOT having anyone as squishy as a Krillin or a Yamcha; we can't casually bring them back from the dead the way the Z fighters can.

EDIT: 'Squishy' is here defined in relative terms. A power level of 200,000 is not particularly 'squishy' by the standards of the fight we expect against the alien army, even though it'd be very squishy indeed by the standards of post-Namek Dragonball.
 
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I'm kind of skeptical of that. Kakara spends basically every hour of every day working at something or other. I don't think "keeping the Masquerade a secret" is actually consuming that much of her time. Plus, a lot of her actions have to be taken among saiyan society, in saiyan form. For those purposes, the idea that the Masquerade has evolved from "saiyan ki users hiding from humans" to "saiyan ki users pretending to be human ki users that live more openly among humans" isn't going to help.
I can think of one major thing that would consume a good chunk of Masqueraded time: travel time. And then there's all the little things Kakara like does to speed things up that she couldn't do in public previously. Add in us taking "Better Living Through Ki", and we'll probably gain quite a few time-saving measures, which add up.

Plus, as you mentioned, once we reveal we have Multiform(we don't have to reveal how good we are), we can be in multiple places at once, and those places don't necessarily have to be at school. We spend, what, 8 hours a day, about 180 days in a school in RL? That's 1/3rd of the day for half a year, or 1/6th, and Garenhulders likely have a similar ratio.

But, yes, it probably won't. There's a I reason I used the word "hope".

Here's a general plan I proposed a while ago:
As such, here's a general plan:
Attend School (Improve): 3
Train with Sensei x2: 2
Study Magic: 1
Contact Jaffur: 1
Drama Club: 2
Fenella: 1
Loose Lips (?): 1
The Power of Learning: 1
Train Maya: 1
Deal with Masquerade (?): 2
Study Jaffurs Form with Mato: 1

Here's a revised version:

Attend School (Improve): 3
Train with Sensei: 1
Study Magic: 1
Contact Jaffur: 1
Drama Club: 2
Fenella: 1
Teach the Misfits Ki: 1
-Train Maya, and have her help train the Misfits as well
-Train Human Masque
The Power of Learning: 1
Research(?)/Ki Tricks(?) Better Living Through Ki: 1
-Train Human Masque
Create Groundbreaking Science Blog: 1
Study Jaffurs Form with Mato: 1

That's 14 AP, leaving us with 2 AP breathing room. Training Tien Style, talking to the Scouts and reflecting on a trait are all possible things we could do with them.
 
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It would be cool to reflect on oddball. Combined with new and novel ki tricks and we might be able to get it up to loony tune levels.
 
"It is a rather unfortunate fact that the greatest usage of ki is combat. Not just for the counterproductive destruction such tends to invoke, but in the greater implications lying behind. I can say with a good deal of certainty befitting my long years that we are not an inherently violent species. Our passions and rationale do not revolve on ending the lives of one another despite what some may say, our thoughts and feelings are not devoted to sadism and spreading misery. So why then, has ki the very force of life spread in this ugly path?

It is not hate that moves us so, but sloth, contentment. A laborer toiling in his craft may say 'oh, this work is backbreaking, why must it be so?' From there he improves, creating tools to ease his burden, techniques to better his lot. And then, he stops. 'Life is better now', he may think, in memory of his past pain. And ingenuity halters.

But the soldier, defending his home, does not stop there. 'I have enemies,' he might think, 'this may not be enough.' And fear will drive him to greater heights, further developments. If he grows content? Well, then one who continued will end him. And it is those that never stop that rise above, victorious in conquest, passing their knowledge on.

It is competition that forces Greatness, the drives on development. Setting a man against the world, for all that it may continuously fail, will produce the greatest of harvests. And yet, this should not be so. Why must conflict, fear, hate, anger, and pain be the source of triumph? Why can't the laborer see his works and say 'this can be better, it can always be better?' Contentment is fleeting, a force of docility. And yet, it can be subdued. This old man implores you, never stagnate, always rise. Have ambition in all you set out to accomplish, not just in the art of destruction."
-Kirllan Yamvha Saiyan philosopher. Not popular, but Kakara found his work well researching.
Inspiration drawn heavily from Polyhistor Academy.
 
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"It is a rather unfortunate fact that the greatest usage of ki is combat. Not just for the counterproductive destruction such tends to invoke, but in the greater implications lying behind. I can say with a good deal of certainty befitting my long years that we are not an inherently violent species. Our passions and rationale do not revolve on ending the lives of one another despite what some may say, our thoughts and feelings are not devoted to sadism and spreading misery. So why then, has ki the very force of life has spread in this ugly path?

It is not hate that moves us so, but sloth, contentment. A laborer toiling in his craft may say 'oh, this work is backbreaking, why must it be so?' From there he improves, creating tools to ease his burden, techniques to better his lot. And then, he stops. 'Life is better now', he may think, in memory of his past pain. And ingenuity halters.

But the soldier, defending his home, does not stop there. 'I have enemies,' he might think, 'this may not be enough.' And fear will drive him to greater heights, further developments. If he grows content? Well, then one who continued will end him. And it is those that never stop that rise above, victorious in conquest, passing their knowledge on.

It is competition that forces Greatness, the drives on development. Setting a man against the world, for all that it may continuously fail, will produce the greatest of harvests. And yet, this should not be so. Why must conflict, fear, hate, anger, and pain be the source of triumph? Why can't the laborer see his works and say 'this can be better, it can always be better?' Contentment is fleeting, a force of docility. And yet, it can be subdued. This old man implores you, never stagnate, always rise. Have ambition in all you set out to accomplish, not just in the art of destruction."
-Kirllan Yamvha Saiyan philosopher. Not popular, but Kakara found his work well researching.

Inspiration drawn heavily from Polyhistor Academy.

Dude...Saiyan's are an inherently hyper aggressive species. I dare say though that doesn't negate the message of this speech, but Saiyans by and far seek out physical conflicts....unless there is WoG somewhere in the quest that the years of interbreeding with the humans here have bred out that distinct racial trait.
 
Dude...Saiyan's are an inherently hyper aggressive species. I dare say though that doesn't negate the message of this speech, but Saiyans by and far seek out physical conflicts....unless there is WoG somewhere in the quest that the years of interbreeding with the humans here have bred out that distinct racial trait.
The philosopher might have been indulging in hopeful thinking, but in DBZ we only see a handful of Saiyans and other descriptions of them are by their enemies.

Also Trunks, Gohan, Pan and Goten are all not especially aggressive people.
 
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The philosopher might have been indulging in hopeful thinking, but in DBZ we only see a handful of Saiyans and other descriptions of them are by their enemies.

Also Trunks, Gohan and Goten are all not especially aggressive people.

They all are bloodknights at some level. Except for Goten, we've seen them all be eager to get into fights they didn't need to. Back in Z, Gohan was going to go down with a slightly uppity dude who was giving him some shit for bumping into him on the street. Before Videl came and he had to fake not being eager for the fight, for example.
 
They all are bloodknights at some level. Except for Goten, we've seen them all be eager to get into fights they didn't need to. Back in Z, Gohan was going to go down with a slightly uppity dude who was giving him some shit for bumping into him on the street. Before Videl came and he had to fake not being eager for the fight, for example.
When was this? Before Saiyaman, while Saiyamans identity was secret, lead up to the tournament?
 
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You are welcome to your incorrect opinion.

What could possibly go wrong?
I am tired.

I can think of one major thing that would consume a good chunk of Masqueraded time: travel time. And then there's all the little things Kakara like does to speed things up that she couldn't do in public previously. Add in us taking "Better Living Through Ki", and we'll probably gain quite a few time-saving measures, which add up.
Travel time? Maaaybe. We know Karen takes mass transit and walking to get home from school, but this is also part of her socialization time with the Misfits, or can be. I'm honestly skeptical that she 'wastes' an hour a day on travel time while Masqued, and you'd have to save her an hour a day at least to justify getting an extra action point. Probably more, because the big limiting factor on Kakara's action economy is both time and energy. There's a reason why extra motivation confers the ability to carry out extra actions, and why Driven gives her two of her sixteen.

From what we've heard, Kakara is very close to the upper bound of what any remotely humanish mind can cope with in terms of "productive use of time," to the point where she HAS to plan rest, games, and breaks into her schedules, because otherwise she'd go crazy and be less productive overall. Taking away the time when she is "unproductive" in terms of her "Scion's action economy" productivity would probably yield diminishing returns in terms of how much freedom of action she gains in the process.

I'm not sure what you mean by "all the little things," but honestly I'm having trouble picturing any of those techniques being significantly more beneficial, either singly or in aggregate, than Multiform. If being in three places at once only nets you two AP as a ki technique, the odds are that ki-based lifehacks aren't going to be good for more than another one or two.

Plus, as you mentioned, once we reveal we have Multiform(we don't have to reveal how good we are), we can be in multiple places at once, and those places don't necessarily have to be at school. We spend, what, 8 hours a day, about 180 days in a school in RL? That's 1/3rd of the day for half a year, or 1/6th, and Garenhulders likely have a similar ratio.
There may well be a practical limit on how much study time we can gain via Multiform. For instance, it may take significant amounts of time just sitting still and meditating to re-integrate our Multiform bodies and their experiences, in which case if you send out your Multiform clones to go study three separate subjects for six hours each, you wind up spending, oh, eight hours just sitting there trying to assimilate everything they've learned. This limits the utility of the technique.

So for purposes of actually mastering schoolwork, it may well be that having three Multiform clones during school hours, only one of which is at school, is NOT as effective for purposes of learning the relevant content areas. Not compared to giving school our (literally) undivided attention.

This is why I suggested using Multiform clones to do school-related homework during school hours, not entirely unrelated tasks. That will tend to save time.

They all are bloodknights at some level. Except for Goten, we've seen them all be eager to get into fights they didn't need to. Back in Z, Gohan was going to go down with a slightly uppity dude who was giving him some shit for bumping into him on the street. Before Videl came and he had to fake not being eager for the fight, for example.
Okay, but there's a huge 'matter of degree' factor going on here.

Full-blooded saiyans will do batshit things like deliberately allow the world-ending biomonster to become stronger by assimilating an enemy android, because they crave a challenge, or tossing the biomonster a Senzu bean to 'even things up' while said biomonster is fighting their own son AND about to destroy the world, because it's a more fair fight.

Half-blooded saiyans may have violent urges, but they're not nuts to the same degree. Their competitiveness may lead them to seek conflict and confrontation, but it won't push them to quite the same level of insanity.

It's reasonable to speculate that full-blooded saiyans are hyperaggressive and hypercompetitive because they have the natural hyperaggression of their species AND the natural competitiveness conferred by ki. Whereas hybrid saiyans mainly have the hypercompetitive streak, and a significantly reduced hyperaggressive streak.
 
Don't think it was ever said in cannon, but every ki user we see in the entire series is competitive. Or at least I can't think of any counter examples.
 
...Um, where did you get that from?
Follow the chain of quote links about four posts up; we're all ultimately talking about a post by @fictionfan , in which a hypothetical saiyan philosopher argues that his species is not aggressive solely because of some kind of special viciousness, but also because the very nature of ki creates an incentive to interpersonal competition, including violent interpersonal competition

I'm arguing that in the context of that belief, it is plausible to say that saiyans are both naturally aggressive AND supernaturally aggressive (because of ki), while hybrid saiyans are not (very) naturally aggressive BUT still have that supernatural aggression 'boost' (because of ki).

I'm not arguing that this belief is necessarily 100% correct, just that a specific anomalous result (hybrid saiyans still being aggressive and competitive, but less stupidly so than their full-blood saiyan fathers) is explicable in its context.

...

As to the Namekians, how much do we know about their culture, as distinct from the magics they worked and the personalities of a few powerful individuals like Dende and Kami? Is it possible that they had a different sort of competitive streak, perhaps competing to work great 'magical' wonders using ki and/or sorcery?

...

I'm not married to the idea of "ki fuels competition" actually being true, mind you. But I think it's interesting and merits full exploration.
 
I'm not married to the idea of "ki fuels competition" actually being true, mind you. But I think it's interesting and merits full exploration.
*rereads the omakes to make sure*

No, it's saying something rather different. The argument presented in that is that conflict and fear drives Ki usage to progress primarily in the field of conflict. Classic arms race scenario and all that.
 
Nah.
Jaffur was born to do the dance of capitalist supremacy on all the lesser primitives.
His Saiyan heritage would have held him back.
Now Jaron can get ALL the money.
Oh my Kai, he's part Chlorfor?

Anyways. We got training restrictions limited. The ki secret is out. Does this mean we can train higher and higher now until we unlock new transformations?
Because I really wanna see Kakara go... even further... beyond! Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnhhhh...~!
 
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