fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Also too late now. We are beyond competent level. Unless, @PoptartProdigy can our Mom help us with higher level skills?
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Dragon Ball: After the End
Not to my knowledge, and I'm positive Berra is aware of it.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Yeah. Basically, her actions, the ones we've directly observed, make sense in terms of her stated motivations.
If her motivations are significantly different from what we've heard, then her actions cease to make sense unless there is a huge amount of secret information that hasn't even been hinted at.
To be fair, @PoptartProdigy , telling us Kala is a master teacher without telling us what she's a master teacher of was inevitably going to lead to us underestimating the utility of her knowledge base. It would have been really helpful to have her character sheet up at some point.
...
That said, revealing to her that we've kiiind of, um, spent the last three years secretly researching styles and deciding Tien style is great and practicing Multiform, but we were embarrassed to ask about it Because Reasons? Then sheepishly rubbing the back of our neck and asking her to train us in Tien style? Yeah, I suspect she'd find that kind of endearing. Most mothers would, at least saiyan mothers.
Honestly, the vast majority of our ability to maintain this conspiracy comes from the fact that nobody suspects us of being involved. Our opposition to the Seal isn't a secret, but our involvement with the Senzus is. Multiform gives us some extra deniability, but given that "be in two places at once" IS a thing saiyans can do... Berra (or anyone else) who actually started to suspect us wouldn't be fooled by "but Kakara can't be in two places at once."
Look at it from the point of view of a suspicious investigator who is well-versed in saiyan techniques. Kakara has an alibi, she was off doing XYZ when the meeting with the Senzus took place! She can't be in two places at... oh crap. Kakara's an acknowledged prodigy in ki manipulation and the inventor of the Golden Oozaru form. She learned Instant Transmission when she was, like, seven. OF COURSE she could learn Multiform if she really wanted to.
Remember how we utterly failed to keep training Maya a secret? Same problem, only as far as we know, we've been fortunate enough to NOT get found out this time. I doubt that's because of our own brilliant efforts and talents, though, so much as it's because no one has the inclination to seriously audit our activities in an attempt to find out if we're involved with subversives. The only person with an incentive to try is Berra, and he's got to have a huge blind spot when it comes to the idea of his loving daughter conspiring against him.
Even assuming he doesn't know we can do Multiform, if he encounters any evidence whatsoever that Kakara is heavily involved in a conspiracy with the Senzus, and our only alibi is "but we don't know Multiform," that alibi is going to last about five seconds. Because that's how long it will take Berra's internal monologue to go:
Berra:
"But Kakara doesn't know Multi..."
[dawning realization]
"Fuuuuuuu-"
- Location
- USA
Yeah, gonna second the fact that not knowing that our mom could teach us Tien style was not too cool, although I haven't ever been here for one of the year votes. Also, does anyone know why we've been hiding multiform? I never read earlier discussion.
Edit: Totally unrelated, but holy shit, over 10% of my total posts on SV are for this quest!
Edit: Totally unrelated, but holy shit, over 10% of my total posts on SV are for this quest!
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
When the actions list for the next turn comes up I am going to list all of the resources I can think of that will increase the rolls for those actions. I hope you all will help me with it.
@PoptartProdigy : Can our family help with that better "living through ki" project? I really like the idea, but if we have a bunch of other stuff we can do with support I would rather stand on the shoulders of Giants.
@PoptartProdigy : Can our family help with that better "living through ki" project? I really like the idea, but if we have a bunch of other stuff we can do with support I would rather stand on the shoulders of Giants.
Actually, Poptart has mentioned there was a lot of stuff happening we didn't see, on account of being an 8 year old Gokun Scion, aka about as far removed from the behind-the-scenes stuff as possible.
You expect me to hint about things I've said are massive spoilers I can't reveal? You are optimistic, I'll grant.
But...yes.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I just read though the discussion for the actions of year 2 and quoted everything I could find that talks about hiding Multiform that was not a vote. This is all I could find. There were many different things that people had to talk about mostly how we were getting into that cult meeting.
That is it besides votes.
- Location
- USA
Am I the only one that remembered that? I mean, it was between Poptart and I in the thread, but still.
I mean, I'm not reliable with it because I see it as a reason to believe everything* Dandeer said about the sealing is a lie and she's just a psycotic bitch that needs to die**, but that's just my bias talking.
*Okay, so not the, "abused by Yammar*** part". That's we know for sure.
**Or preferably live a very long time with every bone in her body broken and healed in the most painful way possible, only so it can be broken again. This process would repeat ad nauseam until she dies or the treatment is no longer effective****
***That's his name right?
****In which case a new method of
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Actually looking at the vote for year 2 it doesn't actually say to keep it secret. I don't know how it ended up happening. Maybe a comment somewhere?
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Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
Why don't we turn this into a book to promote the use of ki in society? Like Gohan in DBOnline. By introducing Ki as a life-changing idea that dramatically improves the value of one's life.
The Secret is out, but we can use this to mold how the use of qi is seen in society and at the same time disseminate the basics of qi manipulation throughout. Furthermore, it puts the focus on Kakara as the lynchpin of this revolution which we can use to evolve our public image. We can also use the books to promote a philosophy closer to our personal agenda.
Other than the political effects of this, it'd give us an IC excuse to to basically poll all the members of saiyin society to see if all of them have methods of using ki to make life easier which would probably be much better than what we could come up on our own. I'm sure everyone has a few tricks they haven't thought to spread, and official backing would let us collect them all together and use them for our own life. It'd be an interesting problem to work on with our mom, since her teaching skill should help us improve the message and the action itself synergises extremely well with our traits.
Mind you, we won't reveal all our training methods to them, just enough to give a taste and most humans due to lack of talent/time wouldn't be able to master ki enough to be a threat anyway. The primary focus would be to increase the demand so that our worldwide alien conspiracy can use to get deeper hooks into society.
Also, if everyone starts learning how to use qi, it'd curb any hypothetical discrimination against ki-users that comes up. Thoughts?
(Compassionate: Since we're helping people, Ambitious: Because we're controlling how ki is presented to a world, Hopeful: Because w're making things better, Ki Prodigy: Because we're working with Ki Manipulation, Inquistive: As we're ferreting out information, Oddball: Because most Saiyins wouldn't think of this, possibly Protector: because it used to be Pacifist+Open-Armed. We'd also get small bonuses from Level-headed, Convictions and Mature since it's a long-term plan to transform society based on our convictions. )
The first action would be to bring this up with our father and use his authority to interview the saiyins on qi-tricks and techniques, then then decide what we want to do with that information later.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
You are a smart smart man. I hope you feel proud of this idea. Great way to leverage being the Scion with other advantages.
[]Write a book "Better living though ki". Collect ki tricks for quality of life improvement from Saiyans all of over and write a book on it. Try and learn the tricks as well.
It is such a great way to change the way people think about ki and encourages people to use it for something besides fighting.
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I like this idea -- it will take up a lot of actions (maybe even as far as 3 or 4), but this sounds like a really fun one.
The biggest problem I can see with Dandeer having a doomsday machine is that she's never mentioned having one, and deterrence kind of doesn't work if it's a secret.
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
Note that collecting and making an official copy of these techniques has major affects for the exiles too. Firstly, it increases Exile comfort especially now that we can use ki anytime we want, and probably makes sure they aren't rusty, but it also makes them more familiar with exotic effects. Example: Dodonpa uses heated qi. A similar but much lesser technique can be used to heat water, food and many other things.
It also encourages them to train Masque form, since now that they're actually allowed to use qi in that form and Better Living through Ki makes using qi in that form much more attractive, people will naturally enhance their Masque proficiency over time.
- Location
- Australia
You should have told us. It was wrong for you to refrain from telling us such relevant and important information on the basis of a technicality.
Nope.
I think we'd need to also take the "Better Living Through Ki" vote (you?) suggested, but yeah, that's a neat idea.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I would be better if we could publish this year, but we can just start collecting and practicing the tricks this year. With the intention of writing the book.
Yes I suggested it to begin with, but the idea has gone through alot of revision since first proposal.
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Inde-
Wait, this is the internet age. We could create an internet blog/vlog/series/whatever.
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
This is was part of the original reason for my idea. I basically imagined people posting qi techniques on an internet forum which we could copy.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
That should really bring down the action count required.
New reputation gained: Ki Guru
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
My gestalt impression is that people have been hoping to either:
1) Break out Perfect Multiform as a devastating battlefield surprise if Berra and Kakara end up confronting each other physically over the Sealing, or
2) Use Multiform to give Kakara an alibi: "I can't have been doing X, I was in location Y at time Z!"
I honestly don't think (2) would have worked. (1) would work if we didn't USE Multiform, I think... but we do use it regularly, because if we didn't, we wouldn't be gaining free actions from being in multiple places at once. Berra cannot possibly be stupid enough to miss the fact that his daughter is in three places at once a significant fraction of the time over years of her life, when she's actively using this ability to, for example, study with him and play with our brother or train Maya at the same time.
It's more like we kept NOT using Multiform, when we theoretically could have. It's like we're saving it for a special occasion, and the occasions are never quite special enough.
For instance, Multiform would be a useful way to circumvent the power restrictions we labored under against the alien scouts- it was seriously suggested in the confrontation at the school, because we can have three Karens at power level 500,000 just as easily as we can have one. The fact that the Multiform clones have lower peak potential doesn't matter because we're effectively forbidden from using more than about 0.2% of our full potential anyway. Multiform would have let us do cool things to save and help people in the aftermath of the Tastreyan attack. Multiform
In hindsight, we could have used Multiform a lot over the past couple of years, so it's easy to get the idea that the thread as a whole wants to keep it secret
Of course, a big part of what usually happens is that "use Multiform" isn't one of our default choices for the vote, and nobody thinks of it until there's already substantial support behind one or more write-in plans. At which point breaking out Multiform risks splitting votes and causing trouble and ends up not being adopted.
Yes, but for Dandeer's core motivations to be a lie, it's not just that there would have to be something happening behind the scenes. It's that there'd have to be highly specific deceptions behind the scenes. The entire Sealing, and Dandeer's seemingly unguarded utterances, even her very thoughts at some points, would basically have to be a facade built up to create a false impression of Dandeer's motives... one that fools us only because we don't know what's going on, a deception that others could presumably pierce.
It doesn't make sense to me. It's like... um, this is in NO way intended to reflect on you, it's just a useful analogy...
It's like the belief that the Kennedy assassination was orchestrated by, say, the Federal Reserve Bank. It's not just that the official story (which on the face of it is pretty solid and consistent) would have to be wrong. It's that it would have to be specifically wrong, in ways that don't present any apparent flaws or hints that lead us toward the true conclusion.
It seems far more likely that:
1) There were unknown parties involved and Dandeer concealed her involvement.
2) Dandeer faked her injuries in an attempt to win Berra's sympathy and aid in Sealing Jaffur.
3) There were non-royal saiyan factions within House Vegeta that quietly informed Dandeer that they'd support her actions, and may indeed have been doing so all along, just because she's unpopular as regent doesn't mean she has a literal zero percent support rating.
Or things of that vein.
But the part of the puzzle that almost certainly IS as portrayed is Dandeer's motives for Sealing her husband and son. We know for a fact Dandeer was abused by her husband; she's not faking that. We know she IS irrationally protective of Jaffur/Jaron and trying to keep him away from ki powers and his saiyan heritage. We know that when pressured to explain her actions, she has repeatedly fallen back on the idea of violent saiyan customs as a genetic curse that the Sealing protected Jaffur from.
If she were faking these motives to the extent of being able to mimic them in the situations we've seen... again, suffice to say that this requires nearly every bit of interaction we've had with her to be a superb, detailed lie. To an extent that would make it nearly impossible for us to talk to her meaningfully at all.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
You know if there is a teaching skill then I am surprised that Kakara has not developed it from all the time she spent teaching Maya.
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
So what are people think of actions this turn? We seem to want at least one action for better living through ki, and we'll likely want some for handling the impact of qi on our daily life as karen, for handling the reveal which should synergies with better living if we go through the book/blog, and for dealing with scouts/making preps for the invasion. What ideas do you guys have to handle this? Especially the effect on our daily life?
Actually, I was just pointing out that it's a possibility, because we know there was something going on we didn't see.
And it's quite possible that her motivation of a "family" is completely honest, but not why she decided to Seal Jaffur.
The extreme crackpot theory being she has been brain-fucked as well by a hidden conspiracy.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
This is a good analysis from earlier about minimum actions. We had much discussion about next years actions in that part of the thread.