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Dragon Ball: After the End

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Yeah not the place for the Immortality debate, though I do have strong feelings on it. And no one is twisting anything on purpose.

And as I've stated before, all of these cool abilities come second to finding a way to end the threat that The Enemy poses. I am fairly sure we are going to need something more than mere Power or Skill to fight something like this.
 
ChronOblivion said:
And as I've stated before, all of these cool abilities come second to finding a way to end the threat that The Enemy poses. I am fairly sure we are going to need something more than mere Power or Skill to fight something like this.
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Hey, this is Dragon Ball. Anything that can't be beaten by MORE POWER or MORE SKILL is definitely beaten with the power of friendship and teamwork Spirit Bombs and/or Multi-Person Combined Kamehamehas. :p
 
ElleonXan said:
Hey, this is Dragon Ball. Anything that can't be beaten by MORE POWER or MORE SKILL is definitely beaten with the power of friendship and teamwork Spirit Bombs and/or Multi-Person Combined Kamehamehas. :p
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Does the Multi-Person Combined Kamehameha still count as a victory for teamwork if every participant is the same person?
 
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Nah, not immortality. This is a civ quest so our loss condition is not our death.

Something like having people forget about us if we are discovered or evacuating to a planet away from the enemy
or summoning zenoh as the "fuck you" option if the enemy finds us
 
The Fourth Monado said:
In Dragon Ball, they are the same thing.

See Zamatsu.
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Zamatsu. Aka, the guy Goku could defeat with one punch. The guy Future Trunks, before all his power-ups was stronger than. The guy who was only issue because his immortality came with ultra-fast healing, and was teamed up with a far stronger partner, and even then his best role was "meatshield". Who nearly ended up Mafuba'd.

Like, if Vegeta was immortal, do you really think he could have beaten Frieza? Frieza would crush him, and probably find some to either eliminate him or make use of him. Suspended animation? Give his body to Ginyu? Put him in a modifier Healing Chamber and harvest his meat as food for the troops?
 
ElleonXan said:
Hey, this is Dragon Ball. Anything that can't be beaten by MORE POWER or MORE SKILL is definitely beaten with the power of friendship and teamwork Spirit Bombs and/or Multi-Person Combined Kamehamehas. :p
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I'd personally be disappointed if this does turn out to be the case.

Oh, and you guys are acting like this quest isn't going to end with Super Saiyan Blue Kakara and Super Saiyan Rose Jaffur fusing into Super Saiyan Violet Jakara.
 
Gore17 said:
Like, if Vegeta was immortal, do you really think he could have beaten Frieza? Frieza would crush him, and probably find some to either eliminate him or make use of him. Suspended animation? Give his body to Ginyu? Put him in a modifier Healing Chamber and harvest his meat as food for the troops?
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Actually, yes

he could have

remember, immortality here is less biological immortality and more conceptual "I cannot die"
Gore17 said:
Zamatsu. Aka, the guy Goku could defeat with one punch. The guy Future Trunks, before all his power-ups was stronger than. The guy who was only issue because his immortality came with ultra-fast healing, and was teamed up with a far stronger partner, and even then his best role was "meatshield". Who nearly ended up Mafuba'd.
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That healing comes standard with immortality. And if I know the questbase here, we're going for far stronger than Future Trunks.

Also, fusing with the universe.
 
The Fourth Monado said:
Actually, yes

he could have

remember, immortality here is less biological immortality and more conceptual "I cannot die"
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Yes, and? Vegeta was nowhere near Frieza's level, to the point Frieza toyed with him. Immortality would simply have meant that Frieza couldn't kill him: it doesn't stop a stronger opponent beating you into the ground and restraining you.
The Fourth Monado said:
That healing comes standard with immortality. And if I know the questbase here, we're going for far stronger than Future Trunks.

Also, fusing with the universe.
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I said ultra-fast healing, which still took a while for the larger injuries(something Trunks took advantage of). A wish from the standard dragon balls would likely result in the healing taking longer.

And that was Fusion Zamasu, who was an odd-duck, being the fusion of two alternates from separate timelines, one with the body of a Saiyan using a Super Saiyan Blue variat and the other an immortal Kai. Very much not standard.
 
Gore17 said:
Yes, and? Vegeta was nowhere near Frieza's level, to the point Frieza toyed with him. Immortality would simply have meant that Frieza couldn't kill him: it doesn't stop a stronger opponent beating you into the ground and restraining you.
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To be fair, and I know this isn't the argument, but i'd say the combination of Zenkai's from basically being killed every time, combined with the rage at the impossibility of his situation, would probably lead to Vegeta reaching SSJ.
 
Gore17 said:
Zamatsu. Aka, the guy Goku could defeat with one punch. The guy Future Trunks, before all his power-ups was stronger than. The guy who was only issue because his immortality came with ultra-fast healing, and was teamed up with a far stronger partner, and even then his best role was "meatshield". Who nearly ended up Mafuba'd.

Like, if Vegeta was immortal, do you really think he could have beaten Frieza? Frieza would crush him, and probably find some to either eliminate him or make use of him. Suspended animation? Give his body to Ginyu? Put him in a modifier Healing Chamber and harvest his meat as food for the troops?
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Well, for that one dbz fic I wanted to write one of the ideas was for Frieza to achieve his wish for immortality and then get curbstomped by piccolo fused by Kami. In the initial draft, they would have cut his head (him not regenerating since it wouldn't kill him anyways) and then straped it to a ki absorbtion machine from Gero's technology as a renewable source of energy for a city.

Years later, aliens would go to earth tosee if they included in the new galaxy government and discover Frieza's fate via spies.

I mean, it is ridiculous enough to fit DB but I thought it was a bit cruel even for him so it was scrapped.
 
anailater said:
To be fair, and I know this isn't the argument, but i'd say the combination of Zenkai's from basically being killed every time, combined with the rage at the impossibility of his situation, would probably lead to Vegeta reaching SSJ.
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Yes, I'm aware of that case. Saiyans are bullshit and all that. :V

But fine, lets use Krillin instead. :drevil:
 
Gore17 said:
Yes, I'm aware of that case. Saiyans are bullshit and all that. :V

But fine, lets use Krillin instead. :drevil:
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I mean eventually Krillin might figure out the potential of solar flare destructo disk.

But I am one of those weird people who would argue with a straight face that no matter how unlikely theres always a chance for the weaker fighter to win in any given situation.

I view an ant killing me as possible as Yamcha killing Buu, but thats still better odds than 0%
it might be 0.0001% but thats still not 0%
 
My knowledge of the Dragonball setting is not great, and the immortality debate is going all sorts of places I don't care to follow, BUT... one comment.

KaintukeeBob said:
. . .

That's a terrible plan. A 'Golden Gun' that can end The Enemy will no doubt also be capable of ending us, so you know the bad guy (or a future bad guy) will get it.
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The Enemy is scary enough that I, for one, would consider creating a weapon capable of killing myself a perfectly acceptable price for putting an end to it (him?)
 
Simon_Jester said:
My knowledge of the Dragonball setting is not great, and the immortality debate is going all sorts of places I don't care to follow, BUT... one comment.

The Enemy is scary enough that I, for one, would consider creating a weapon capable of killing myself a perfectly acceptable price for putting an end to it (him?)
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The enemy also assimilates things it considers useful.

One miss and the enemy becomes even more invincible.
 
Ridiculously Average Guy said:
Maybe better to ask to go back in time before The Enemy became The Enemy and kill them as a baby?
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But then you get into the moral issue of killing someone for a crime they haven't committed yet.
I'd be down for trying to change history for the kid so they don't become the enemy, but of course with time travel rules in dragon ball either way it won't help cause it would just create a new timeline and our one would still be fucked.
 
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