Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Power, especially political power is social. To enjoy power of that kind involves enjoying exercising power over others.
Those others tend to experience this enjoyment much more negatively.
Dragon Ball: After the End
Power, especially political power is social. To enjoy power of that kind involves enjoying exercising power over others.
Those others tend to experience this enjoyment much more negatively.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
We could ask Sensei via telepathy before telling Dad anything. Just say "I need to ask Sensei something first" and then a quick Hey Sensei, Kakara here, on a scale of 1 to 10 how true is the statement "Seers can't See The Enemy", and should I be hiding this from Dad for Seer shenanigans?
What do you say?
[] Tell them it's pretty personal, and we'd like some time to process and think about it before saying anything
-[] Later, ask Sensei if the Seers are keeping the ability to See the Fall of Earth a secret, and if so, can we tell Dad?
-[] If it's a secret, tell Dad it's personal enough we'd just rather not talk about it again.
Going forward, who will you tell?
[] If it's a Seer secret, tell nobody
[] Otherwise, tell Dad and Grandma (without showing The Enemy's face, or what we saw of it) - this is kind of their job
Will you still refrain from opposing Dad's attempts to reveal Maya to the Exiles at large?
[] Yes (allow the reveal).
EDIT: Telepathy probably isn't long-range enough (we should think about training it to a global range), so we're just deferring the conversation until after we talk to Sensei now.
DOUBLE EDIT: Upon further reflection, The Enemy's words in the vision make the Seer Secret unlikely.
Whilst I agree with you, there is a strong tendency among those who want power for power's sake to do unethical things for said power. Whilst I would also argue our inherent control over Kakara's morality makes the point moot, the majority of examples we have to draw on do have the two traits go hand-in-hand, so the concern that it's not correlation but causation is understandable.
Some people just like to be in charge. Sometimes it's because they want to be able to make the decisions because they think they're the best for the job, sometimes they want to be able to make decisions for their own benefit that others are unlikely to make (NOTE: This is generally the bad one)... and sometimes, they just enjoy being the one who gets to make those decisions, who other people have to follow the orders of.
Hey man, some people are into that. They have whole websites and everything! :lol
[] Tell them it's pretty personal, and we'd like some time to process and think about it before saying anything
-[] Later, ask Sensei if the Seers are keeping the ability to See the Fall of Earth a secret, and if so, can we tell Dad?
-[] If it's a secret, tell Dad it's personal enough we'd just rather not talk about it again.
Going forward, who will you tell?
[] If it's a Seer secret, tell nobody
[] Otherwise, tell Dad and Grandma (without showing The Enemy's face, or what we saw of it) - this is kind of their job
Will you still refrain from opposing Dad's attempts to reveal Maya to the Exiles at large?
[] Yes (allow the reveal).
EDIT: Telepathy probably isn't long-range enough (we should think about training it to a global range), so we're just deferring the conversation until after we talk to Sensei now.
DOUBLE EDIT: Upon further reflection, The Enemy's words in the vision make the Seer Secret unlikely.
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Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
Doesn't our telepathy have a few miles range or lose accuracy over distance? We ARE in the south pole so using telepathy to talk to him might not reach him or also hit other people. Which kind of defeats the idea of secrecy.
*Suddenly imagines a group of normal humans being hit with telepathy and start hearing voices, becoming a recurring gag*
Of course, if you want to try...
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Ah. We're probably more than "a few hundred miles" away from Sensei aren't we? I'll edit the plan to just say it's personal, and we need time to process.
- Location
- Australia
Not necessarily. Goku has always expressed his desire above all else as becoming the strongest but we never see him being corrupted by that. He fights for fun and to protect, but never for the sake of exercising his power over others. We can be completely good despite being power-hungry, and easily to boot. You just have to not be fatalistic or defeatist about it.
Hum, apparently I explained things really badly if that is what you got out of it. In those examples it is power so they can make decisions which is okay regardless of why they want to make those decisions, good or bad doesn't really enter into it. Power hungry to me means when you aim for power so you obtain some that you leverage into more which results into more and everything that happens is incidental to the power you continuously gather.
Power in general is what you do with it having no worth outside of that. Falling into the trap of thinking it has some intrinsic value is what I consider stupid. It is like making a wish to have all money in the world, fundamentally nonsensical. At least that is how I see it.
And this is probably my last post in the subject, just felt you were polite enough to deserve me explaining my position before disappearing.
As for the vision I think saying it isn't urgent, the opposite really, so consulting with more experienced people before sharing anything about it seems like the best thing to do but not entirely sure how to best put it.
I'm just saying that we should consider the possibility and plan around it if doing so isn't too expensive. Kakara is a seer, and she rolled high on the vision, but she isn't a "best-there's-ever-been-potential" level seer, and there's been a long time for far more skilled seers to have gotten lucky. If she really is the first to achieve this there must be something really exceptional which we have no indication of in play.
-or, she's not the first to see this. The seers just mumble about headaches when they're asked about the event (and what happened to Kakara would seem to fit the bill), and nobody else has any way to verify it. They're an inherently insular and remote institution which influences or outright controls everything important. If there's anybody who'd be well-positioned to know about fledgling seers and remotely keep an eye on them or predict needed intervention it would be, well, seers. Given their natural secretiveness it wouldn't be surprising if early records weren't widespread, they're the best people to track down and hide them if they existed, and they're really the natural loremasters and record-keepers of the civilization anyway.
If it's the latter, it means that all the seers have been keeping quiet about it, which suggests that there may be a very good reason which we should probably ask a seer about before telepathing copies of the vision which nearly broke Kakara directly into the minds of dozens of powerful people.
That's a bit uncharitable. I almost compulsively hoard power despite being so naturally disinclined to use it that I don't even like voting. It's simply that if I have the power it means that I don't need to worry about somebody else having it instead.
Well, yes, which why everybody should just give all the power to me.
The Fourth Monado
S U B A R A S H I I
- Location
- Away
something something fuck no
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
I would point out that it would be more akin having all the money in the world, except everyone else has to let you buy stuff with it. But yes, power's intrinsic value is only what you can get out of it - you don't really want to "buy" anything but more power then it's pretty pointless.
I can mention that the vision isn't in any way urgent if you think that would help, but we still need a reason to actively not share it, which a blanket "it's personal" statement accomplishes.
But we gotta grind that deceit skill tho
On another note, I thought I'd quickly explicitly list what we know abut The Enemy at this point:
- It's very short.
- It sounds male.
- It has covered itself in clothing - it might be deliberately concealing its identity?
- It absorbs power from dead foes (possibly just information, but the wording sounds more like it's getting more than that.)
- It sounds "dead", speaking in a cold and monotone "sibilant hiss".
- It knows Saiyans can be sorcerers, and isn't very impressed.
- It sounds as if it has deliberately taken measures against Seers - the Seer conspiracy theory seems unlikely in light of this statement.
- It seems to want to kill the Saiyan race (going so far as to consider specific countermeasures) - does it hold a grudge against the Saiyans?
- Looking at its face is a Bad Idea. Eldritch horror?
- Garlic Jr. is short, male, and would have to have escaped from The Dead Zone AKA The Void. This seems like the most likely possibility... but would his grudge be against the Saiyan race as a whole, instead of just Goku and co. - who are already dead?
- Baby is short (at least, google images makes him look short, I never saw GT) probably sounds male, can enter people (absorb them?) and has a big grudge against the Saiyan race in particular. He would also have to have returned from the dead.
- Cell absorbs people, has a malleable form (could be in a short form), can sound male and hissy in some forms (I think?) and would also have to have returned from the dead. Like Garlic Jr. though, his grudge is more likely to be against Goku and Gohan specifically - would this transfer onto the entire race?
- Monster Carrot, having amassed his power over decades, escaped from the moon to wreak vengeance upon all who would sully his mighty name. Gaze not upon his whiskered face, lest he transform you into a carrot!
- Pilaf is short and male. He seemed to want to rule the world, not destroy it, but it could be that whatever gave the Emperor his power boost changed his outlook somewhat?
- It could be an entirely unknown God - perhaps a God of a race the Saiyans slaughtered, like the Tuffles? (For those unfamiliar with GT like me, Baby was a Tuffle.) What would the God of a dead race look like?
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- Location
- Australia
An almost flawless theory, but if it really was Monster Carrot we would've seen a rabbit ear-like bulge in the Enemy's hood, of which we saw none.
Maybe it's a God of Death? I mean we know a God of Destruction exists so maybe there are other gods besides Beerus and the Kais? Maybe it has something to do with whatever Whis is?
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"Right now I need to go ask Sensei to make sense out of what I sensed. We might as well bring Maya to get her checked over while we're there."
Everybody forgets Pilaf.
- Location
- Australia
Pilaf wanted to rule the world, not destroy it.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
I'll put unknown God on the list. It could be a God of some race the Saiyans slaughtered?
If we said this, we'd have to say it via telepathy - Dad wants us to keep the existence of other ki users on the down-low..
I did indeed forget Pilaf - I'll put him on there.
Guys, who really cares if its a seer secret?
I don't remember taking any loyalty oaths to keep any secrets. Its our vision so we can tell whomever we want. Also we're the scion so we outrank them anyway.
If telling people about the enemy was somehow harmful, I imagine our teacher would have already Seen us about to blab and come stop us.
At the very least we should tell dad.
[x] Tell Maya that we Saw something that is one of those secrets we can't tell her.
-[x] Tell Dad Everything via telepathy.
[x] Yes (allow the reveal)
I don't remember taking any loyalty oaths to keep any secrets. Its our vision so we can tell whomever we want. Also we're the scion so we outrank them anyway.
If telling people about the enemy was somehow harmful, I imagine our teacher would have already Seen us about to blab and come stop us.
At the very least we should tell dad.
[x] Tell Maya that we Saw something that is one of those secrets we can't tell her.
-[x] Tell Dad Everything via telepathy.
[x] Yes (allow the reveal)
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
I think it's unlikely that it is a Seer secret, but you'd have to imagine that the guys who can see the future would have a pretty good reason to keep something a secret. The Sight isn't perfect though - unlike a huge event (like The Enemy destroying Earth) why would anyone be looking at us right now? Random visions, meanwhile, are far too scattershot to assume perfect coverage.
Maybe the fact that saiyans forced him into the dead zone twice?
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
Why tell Maya it is a secret? Saying we saw our great grandpa's death fulfills the same purpose without making her suspiscious, which is something Berra wouldn't want.
Also, it can't be monster carrot. Roshi killed him in early dragon ball.
Also, it can't be monster carrot. Roshi killed him in early dragon ball.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Yes, but my point is that was Goku and co., who he's already killed and got revenge on, not the Saiyan race as a whole. As opposed to, say, Baby, who explicitly wants revenge upon every Saiyan alive.
Valid point RE: Maya, but clearly Monster Carrot used his mighty powers to burrow his way back from death itself like half of the cast.
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ElleonXan
Self-Proclaimed King of the Dumpster Fires
- Location
- USA
[X] Tell Maya that we Saw something that is one of those secrets we can't tell her.
-[X] Tell Dad Everything via telepathy.
[X] Going forward tell:
-[X] Sensei Carrick
-[X] Grandma
[X] Yes (allow the reveal)
Honestly, I think this is probably the way to go. I doubt this is a whole "Seer secret" thing, seeing as we haven't really seen the seers come across as a shadowy conspiracy hell-bent on hoarding knowledge to rule from the shadows, but even if it is a Seer secret? This isn't ASoIaF after all... we're not likely* to be knifed in the back over this.
*note: I said likely. Not that it is impossible... just unlikely.
-[X] Tell Dad Everything via telepathy.
[X] Going forward tell:
-[X] Sensei Carrick
-[X] Grandma
[X] Yes (allow the reveal)
Honestly, I think this is probably the way to go. I doubt this is a whole "Seer secret" thing, seeing as we haven't really seen the seers come across as a shadowy conspiracy hell-bent on hoarding knowledge to rule from the shadows, but even if it is a Seer secret? This isn't ASoIaF after all... we're not likely* to be knifed in the back over this.
*note: I said likely. Not that it is impossible... just unlikely.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
[X] Tell Maya that we Saw our great-grandfather die.
-[X] Tell Dad Everything via telepathy.
[X] Going forward tell:
-[X] Sensei Carrick
-[X] Grandma
[X] Yes (allow the reveal)
Yeah, upon further reflection, the Seer Secret seems unlikely. I like @Bakkasama 's idea of just telling Maya we saw our great-grandfather die and not elaborating though.
-[X] Tell Dad Everything via telepathy.
[X] Going forward tell:
-[X] Sensei Carrick
-[X] Grandma
[X] Yes (allow the reveal)
Yeah, upon further reflection, the Seer Secret seems unlikely. I like @Bakkasama 's idea of just telling Maya we saw our great-grandfather die and not elaborating though.