Dragon Ball: After the End
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
[X] Yes ("Nosy Little Girl" action is re-purposed into "Training Maya" action for the remainder of the year. You will teach your friend in ki, likely causing her power level to skyrocket and inevitably bringing her to the attention of your father. You will be open with Maya about that, but as you have elected not to reveal saiyan society to her as of yet, will remain mum on the wider implications of such a discovery. If you want to convince her to let you tell your Dad, you have until her power grows too great to be missed to do so)
[X] No (You should be getting back to the party)
EDIT: Why would we upgrade from slacking? We've successfully passed the "slacking" roll, making this even more a waste of time this year. Did I miss something?
[X] No (You should be getting back to the party)
EDIT: Why would we upgrade from slacking? We've successfully passed the "slacking" roll, making this even more a waste of time this year. Did I miss something?
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Maybe, but we don't know that for sure. Plus really how much do we know about her besides that she is a loner, hate the conformism of her society and that she is either a mutant human or an hybrid sayan under a mask? We are not talking about a friend of a lifetime here, we are talking of an aquitance we made 2 years ago when we were 8 who sometime we see as a group outside of classroom... and I repeat she is 10 not an adult or teenager, so who know how she would react to anything.
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
[X] Yes ("Nosy Little Girl" action is re-purposed into "Training Maya" action for the remainder of the year. You will teach your friend in ki, likely causing her power level to skyrocket and inevitably bringing her to the attention of your father. You will be open with Maya about that, but as you have elected not to reveal saiyan society to her as of yet, will remain mum on the wider implications of such a discovery. If you want to convince her to let you tell your Dad, you have until her power grows too great to be missed to do so)
[X] No (You should be getting back to the party)
[X] No (You should be getting back to the party)
ElleonXan
Self-Proclaimed King of the Dumpster Fires
- Location
- USA
Please don't start this again. If you want a reason, go pack and read the PAGES of back and forth during the last time someone asked why a good portion of us didn't want Kakara to be slacking. Suffice to say that in spite of the whole "but the mechanics" bit, some of us (myself included, obviously) would rather have a main character that narratively wasn't the type of person who would slack on grades.
And since I know you're the type of person who doesn't mind things like this, I'm going to ask you why you chose what you did. Since the write-in vote and the standard yes vote pretty much mean the same thing, only varying the time in which we inform our friend of the inherent "danger" of us training her, what made you decide that telling her upfront of the chance that she'll be found out and letting her make the decision on her own is inferior to waiting a week, helping her gain more power, (thus making her more likely to be found out sooner) and telling her then? Especially since, if you're truly convinced that she'll say no after learning the risks, we'd be losing an action on either side... we can't really train her if she doesn't want us to or not, whether or not we previously trained her for a week.
So how about it? Wanna change your vote to the option that doesn't have us being a prick and hiding risks from our friend until after we've already started her on the path to getting found out?
Ridiculously Average Guy
I'm you, but stronger
- Location
-
[X] Yes ("Nosy Little Girl" action is re-purposed into "Training Maya" action for the remainder of the year. You will teach your friend in ki, likely causing her power level to skyrocket and inevitably bringing her to the attention of your father. You will be open with Maya about that, but as you have elected not to reveal saiyan society to her as of yet, will remain mum on the wider implications of such a discovery. If you want to convince her to let you tell your Dad, you have until her power grows too great to be missed to do so)
[X] No (You should be getting back to the party)
If dad finds out her secret because he senses her? Well, it's not our fault is it.
[X] No (You should be getting back to the party)
If dad finds out her secret because he senses her? Well, it's not our fault is it.
ElleonXan
Self-Proclaimed King of the Dumpster Fires
- Location
- USA
If she just naturally increases her power and gets found out? Then no, it isn't.
If we help train her to reach the level of power where she gets found out? Then yeah, it kinda is.
This is why not being up front with her and letting her make her own decision would make us a jerk.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
I literally just meant that, for this year, that scene is past, and was wondering why it was being brought up again.
I have no idea what you mean by this, so I'm assuming it's complimentary. Thanks!
I don't understand what you mean by this. The two choices I think you're referring to:
[ ] Yes ("Nosy Little Girl" action is re-purposed into "Training Maya" action for the remainder of the year. You will teach your friend in ki, likely causing her power level to skyrocket and inevitably bringing her to the attention of your father. You will be open with Maya about that, but as you have elected not to reveal saiyan society to her as of yet, will remain mum on the wider implications of such a discovery. If you want to convince her to let you tell your Dad, you have until her power grows too great to be missed to do so)
[ ] Tell Maya about how Dad will eventually sense her if we train her. We can train her if she wants, but she has to understand that we might get in trouble if Dad finds out we trained her and we'll have to stop training her one day unless she wants to definitely be sensed.
Neither of them seem to delay telling her about the risks? I mean, I suppose the first option makes the assumption that she'll want to continue after she's told, but if we're open about the fact that Dad will sense her either way, I don't see a real difference between the two?
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Because some of us give a shit about her character and her friendship with Gemma. Personally, I'm not voting for it because I don't have the energy to fight for it right now.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Oh, right. I'd point out that we have a quantitative measure of any effect on said relationship in that we remain at Allies [Dependable] so we know that it had no effect, but seriously let's just not start this thing up again.
ElleonXan
Self-Proclaimed King of the Dumpster Fires
- Location
- USA
It was complementary. I was questioning your choice and asking you directly to change your vote, which some people find offensive. Seeing as how you've done it before to others, I assumed that you'd be okay with it.
And the difference between the two choices is this: in the write in, we're being very up front and honest about the risk to Maya's secret that comes with training. We're letting her decide if that risk is too much. In the standard yes option, we start training her and then a week in...
In other words, you'll start her on the path to training, get her hopes up, wait a week, and then say: So as we're training here's the stuff you probably should have known beforehand, but I'm telling you now. Also, even though this is your life and your secret, I'm taking initiative for this decision, not you. (As cited by the rest of the Author's post that I quoted that I'm too tired to go back and recopy in.)
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Oh, I see! That makes sense. I don't think it's a big deal, but I would change my vote for that - except that every vote for the write-in has the Maintain Grades vote, which I'm against (I would be more inclined to vote for Raise Grades if two actions were somehow freed up, if there weren't aliens invading over the next few years, as I consider Maintain Grades to be a trap option.) I'd rather, if she said no, that Poptart held a vote over what to do with the new action. Alas, I have only two choices, so I consider [X] Yes to be the lesser of two evils.
Good argument though!
- Location
- Somewhere I shouldn't be
[X] Yes ("Nosy Little Girl" action is re-purposed into "Training Maya" action for the remainder of the year. You will teach your friend in ki, likely causing her power level to skyrocket and inevitably bringing her to the attention of your father. You will be open with Maya about that, but as you have elected not to reveal saiyan society to her as of yet, will remain mum on the wider implications of such a discovery. If you want to convince her to let you tell your Dad, you have until her power grows too great to be missed to do so)
[X] Yes (Show off for our friend)
[X] Yes (Show off for our friend)
ElleonXan
Self-Proclaimed King of the Dumpster Fires
- Location
- USA
I see. I was afraid of that, but figured I'd hedge my bets and try anyway.
Though being totally honest, and please don't take this the wrong way, but it seems to me you're relying too much on the mechanics and stats of the quest, and not taking the narrative into account enough. It seems like you keep making choices based on (and are definitely referring often back to) actions and relationship status, without extrapolating where it can lead narritively. As we can't see but the few numbers that our illustrious QM tells us, I personally have to take the story we're reading as just that, a story. And I think that's why we keep having such a disconnect: you're (at least from what it seems to me) trying to play the quest like a game, to optimize and win, whereas I'm trying to shape it like a flowing narrative, which sometimes means taking a less optimal, more narratively satisfying route. Or in other words, it seems like you're voting to win a game and I'm voting for the story I'd like to read.
Or maybe I'm just sleep deprived and don't know what I'm talking about.
Either way, with that I'm going to go to sleep. I'm so out of it I literally took two whole minutes to comprehend the "good argument" remark.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
Are we sure that is the case? I mean, we did have a scene that talked about us slacking but logic says that a drop in grades would be noticed later in the year while us slacking would be noticed by our friends at the begining.
Considering that we would start training next week, we would still tell her before we start training her. It more the difference between "I could teach you but if I do we will eventually reach a point in which we will HAVE to tell dad or I will get in trouble. Are you sure you want to do this?" and "I will train you but we will eventually reach a point in which we will have to tell dad or stop, otherwise he will find out on his own".
The first tells Maya she will either get us in trouble unless she tells dad if we train her or we can not train her at all. It might guilt her into not training if she thinks she is asking us to get in trouble with our parents for her or it might not and it says that she should prepare herself mentally to tell dad. More importantly, it relegates the concecuences of what happens (in Maya's opinión) to her so we would get in trouble because of her in Maya's eyes. Most importantly, Kakara is delaying picking a stand in the matter.
The second has Kakara decide that yes, she will train Maya and that is her choice. It also gives Maya a taste of power to tempt her to continue training with us and tells her that, at some point, we either tell that or we stop training her and that is our condition to train her but we can worry about it as we aproach that point.
The most important diference about the vote is probably what it tells about Kakara and her opinión on the matter. So we have to ask: How do we feel about having someone that powerful in our planet?
She is not a Saiyan. She has no cap to her power and she has more potential than Tien Shin Han. She will eventually surpass the 15 millón power level, something only Lords and Scions can do. If she lives long enough, she will eventually surpass FPSS and become the strongest being in the planet unless we change the law. That kind of power is dangerous to have outside the ruling houses unless you are absolutely certain she won't use it against you.
Are we ready to have Kakara take that position? Say "Yes, I trust Maya enough to risk that and I am willing to own up to that"? To defend her right to train if she is introduced to saiyan society?
rkyeun
Cabbitus Maximus
- Location
- ◕ ‿‿ ◕
@PoptartProdigy
This is not trying to be a write-in, but I'm on my phone in the back of a bumpy van ride and so editing large blocks of copypasta with precise cursor movement is not an easy task compared to stream of consciousness writing.
[X] Tell Maya before we agree to training. Tell her you're likely to get in trouble for doing so. Tell her if she gets too strong, people will be able to see her powers and she'll find trouble. Tell her if she wants to keep going past the cutoff, she's going to have to meet your dad. Don't slack on grades, it's part of our masque and our alibi vs treason.
This is not trying to be a write-in, but I'm on my phone in the back of a bumpy van ride and so editing large blocks of copypasta with precise cursor movement is not an easy task compared to stream of consciousness writing.
[X] Tell Maya before we agree to training. Tell her you're likely to get in trouble for doing so. Tell her if she gets too strong, people will be able to see her powers and she'll find trouble. Tell her if she wants to keep going past the cutoff, she's going to have to meet your dad. Don't slack on grades, it's part of our masque and our alibi vs treason.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
I guess I do see it as sort of a game? I see Kakara as being defined by our choices, so if something goes wrong that we could have prevented, that's our responsibility. If I put myself into her adorable brown booties, if I had the information available to me I would absolutely slack off at school and focus on "more important" things, though that's partially shaped by my ability to look back and say "yeah, my primary school grades were pretty meaningless." It's also not so much that I don't see the narrative as important as that we've been explicitly told that we "maintain" relationships off-screen, and I feel like we're taking a single comment about our slacking as indicative of our entire relationship with her.
I mean, as purely a story, that makes sense - you only know about the characters from what's written down on the page, and since this single conversation is a huge part of what we've seen of Gemma, that would make sense! The conversation wouldn't look like that if that wasn't what the author wanted us to know about Gemma. It would definitely be indicative of what the author wanted us to know about their relationship, because that's just good writing. But in a Quest you have all this extra information, so these "snapshots" don't have to be so indicative of the entire relationship, so much as actually just being individual snapshots regarding certain choices we've made.
I guess overall, I see reading it as a purely a story is only giving part of the picture, and when you're actually making decisions rather than reading along not taking all of the available information just... rubs me the wrong way. The two are certainly related - in fact, I'd say it was pretty obvious that a Quest is both a story and a game - but you have to acknowledge that there are key differences between the two, to make the best decisions.
Funnily enough, I suppose it's a matter of perspective in that sense - you see Kakara skipping her homework as being "wrong" and indicative of bad things for her character, because as a character in a story that's what it would imply. The author would be using that to tell us something. But in a quest, especially one where the main challenge of player interaction is prioritisation, I think this particular decision falls under the "game" side of the quest and from that perspective it's better for Kakara's character to focus on more pressing things. Because in a story the character will win or lose based on how the story is supposed to go, but in a game - and in a quest - bad things happen because the players made bad choices (or the dice go poorly - but planning around that is also part of the challenge.)
Anyway, I think the grades will start mattering more when we get to secondary school, so whichever comes later of the invasion and that point, I'll be voting for a "Raise Grades" action (and then slacking, and then raise grades when we fall a grade, and then slacking after we have our grade back, etc. etc.)
It wouldn't have been brought up if it wasn't referring to the dice roll, and a while back I asked whether the order of actions in the vote mattered, and as part of the answer we were told that the dice just happened to have the first 3 actions come up in this order - so I'm pretty sure that was indirect confirmation.
EDIT: Thinking more about it, I'd argue that the "story" part is the decision of what the ideal outcome for our character is. Do we want a happy, friendly girl or a brooding vengeance-driven warrior? (NOTE: We managed to pick both.) Do we want to be a powerful fighter, or give up on that entirely and focus on other things? Do we want to be a competent slippery politician, or a straight-shooter even when a little lie would make things better for everyone? And so on. The "game" part of the quest is taking these goals and saying "this is the best way from us to get from where we are now to this point, where we have achieved these goals".
I think that individual action decisions and plans fall under the "game" part, and act in service to the "story" part - so I see this example, and mechanically both lead to the same outcome but have different journeys there, and I think "well, they both lead to the same point, with the same 'story' end (and if we do take Raise Grades when our grade falls, I do believe that) but we can also advance towards these other 'story' goals by taking this route, so this choice is superior."
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Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
[X] Yes ("Nosy Little Girl" action is re-purposed into "Training Maya" action for the remainder of the year. You will teach your friend in ki, likely causing her power level to skyrocket and inevitably bringing her to the attention of your father. You will be open with Maya about that, but as you have elected not to reveal saiyan society to her as of yet, will remain mum on the wider implications of such a discovery. If you want to convince her to let you tell your Dad, you have until her power grows too great to be missed to do so)
[X] No (You should be getting back to the party)
I decided to go all in with Maya. She has potential to be a pretty strong fighter by the time Kakara becomes a Lady and while that is dangeroues fo the status quo in the long run, it could be a boon if she becomes loyal to Kakara. It would be a way to go around the Elder-Lord-Scion limit each clan has for the +15millon PL fighters each clan has and if she is loyal to Kakara first that would be a pretty big stick to have in politics. It would cause us a lot of trouble just to get to that point and burn some of our political capital (which is something we don't want as we need it for the Jaffur unsealing aftermath) but if actual threats come our way later on, a fighter on that level would be useful. On a galactic politics stage, having a strong agent who is not a saiyan could be interesting too as a figurehead; she wouldn't have the now mythical weight saiyans have but could build a power base while we get ready to unveil our existence.
[X] No (You should be getting back to the party)
I decided to go all in with Maya. She has potential to be a pretty strong fighter by the time Kakara becomes a Lady and while that is dangeroues fo the status quo in the long run, it could be a boon if she becomes loyal to Kakara. It would be a way to go around the Elder-Lord-Scion limit each clan has for the +15millon PL fighters each clan has and if she is loyal to Kakara first that would be a pretty big stick to have in politics. It would cause us a lot of trouble just to get to that point and burn some of our political capital (which is something we don't want as we need it for the Jaffur unsealing aftermath) but if actual threats come our way later on, a fighter on that level would be useful. On a galactic politics stage, having a strong agent who is not a saiyan could be interesting too as a figurehead; she wouldn't have the now mythical weight saiyans have but could build a power base while we get ready to unveil our existence.
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
[X] Yes ("Nosy Little Girl" action is re-purposed into "Training Maya" action for the remainder of the year. You will teach your friend in ki, likely causing her power level to skyrocket and inevitably bringing her to the attention of your father. You will be open with Maya about that, but as you have elected not to reveal saiyan society to her as of yet, will remain mum on the wider implications of such a discovery. If you want to convince her to let you tell your Dad, you have until her power grows too great to be missed to do so)
[X] No (You should be getting back to the party)
Because I actually prefer Kakara committing to stand by her friend. She's still going to do what she can to inform her of risks and consequences, but she's decided right now that Maya's worth investing time and energy into.
Also, I had a thought about Maya: Clearly she's not a Saiyan in some hyper-elaborate super-paranoid disguise scheme she doesn't know about, but neither is she "just" a Mutant.
She's a Paladin. She's been chosen by one or more Deity (perhaps Gohan, perhaps Piccolo, perhaps the deity of the far-distant past of Garenhuld who perhaps set up a complicated plan to keep their people safe, maybe someone else) to gain this power to be the best Champion for this planet at this time. She'll be one of our stoutest, most trustworthy companions, mark my words.
[X] No (You should be getting back to the party)
Because I actually prefer Kakara committing to stand by her friend. She's still going to do what she can to inform her of risks and consequences, but she's decided right now that Maya's worth investing time and energy into.
Also, I had a thought about Maya: Clearly she's not a Saiyan in some hyper-elaborate super-paranoid disguise scheme she doesn't know about, but neither is she "just" a Mutant.
She's a Paladin. She's been chosen by one or more Deity (perhaps Gohan, perhaps Piccolo, perhaps the deity of the far-distant past of Garenhuld who perhaps set up a complicated plan to keep their people safe, maybe someone else) to gain this power to be the best Champion for this planet at this time. She'll be one of our stoutest, most trustworthy companions, mark my words.
- Location
- Scotland
[X] Yes ("Nosy Little Girl" action is re-purposed into "Training Maya" action for the remainder of the year. You will teach your friend in ki, likely causing her power level to skyrocket and inevitably bringing her to the attention of your father. You will be open with Maya about that, but as you have elected not to reveal saiyan society to her as of yet, will remain mum on the wider implications of such a discovery. If you want to convince her to let you tell your Dad, you have until her power grows too great to be missed to do so)
[X] No (You should be getting back to the party)
Changing back to this cause i agree with knight
[X] No (You should be getting back to the party)
Changing back to this cause i agree with knight
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Wait, are paladins a thing anywhere in Dragon Ball or are you just extrapolating from the existence of gods? Because while that would be neat, if they don't already exist I think taking it as fact is thoroughly unsupported by the information at hand.
Either way though, she's our friend and a potential high-value asset as a very strong fighter - and both of those things are important to us (though I admit, I voted for training her before someone in the thread pointed out there was more to be gained than just helping a friend.)
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
They're not literally a thing, it's just how I'm expressing the concept.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Oh, okay! That's less of a reach, though I think on balance I'd consider it less-likely-than-not. Still, with gods being a thing, it's certainly possible. Do we know if they've ever blessed anyone else before?
As it stands then, the possibilities are:
- Human mutant
- Saiyan by-blow
- Human chosen by a god
- Jaffur's "dead" sister
- Weird magic shit on a human while young
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
Well, @PoptartProdigy is kind of treading new ground, between having Gohan, Goku, Vegeta, and (most likely) Piccolo explicitly reaching Deity status, and delving into their nature beyond just "strong, magical, and from the Afterlife".
That said, the closest equivalent I can think of off-hand was the Elder Kai unlocking Gohan's potential so he became Mystic Gohan. In that case, Gohan and the Kai were in the same physical place and it took, what, a day? But it was also a situation where it was a bit slapdash, with heavy elements of "ohcrapohcrapohcrapohcrapohcrap gotta do something!". In which case it's possibe that something more subtle could be worked over a longer time period with prep time over greater distance.
I'm just kind of spitballing the idea though.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Oh, so there is a precedent? That makes it much more likely - about as likely as the other two front-runners, I'd reckon.