Firstly, she can't be a half or a quarter Saiyan, there's no one with that much Saiyan blood on Garenhuld.
In addition, she's far too weak to be any kind of Saiyan-human hybrid.
Dragon Ball: After the End
In addition, she's far too weak to be any kind of Saiyan-human hybrid.
It's often a lot more subtle than open romance. She is pretty clearly enamored and infatuated, then shuts down any suggestion of sharing the experience with anyone other than the two of them. Expect possessiveness.
She's described as insecure and isolated on the level of Jaron, and she's keeping tremendous secrets even from parents who don't appear to respond with anything but accusations of lies. She is an alien on her own world.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Not necessarily! Just because the average adult clocks in at 1.5 million doesn't mean they're born there. Much like the saiyans of old, saiyans babies are born with power levels generally in the hundreds, and possibly into the thousands. Maya is in fact abnormally strong by the standards of a saiyan who is not the beneficiary of Z Fighter training, especially considering that she hasn't undergone the frankly brutal training that even non-Z-Fighter saiyans would have received.
Consider: at the age of 10, with no formal or even terribly intense training and no idea of what she was doing, Maya Webley has a power level of 927. With even the slightest training, she'll be awesomely powerful. Once things begin to settle down and she has a second to think, expect Kakara to have a minor freak-out over the fact that one of her friends is in fact a galactic-scale powerhouse.
So, in short, her power level indicates little about her ancestry.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
What qualifies as a "galactic-scale powerhouse"? Do we?
- Location
- Australia
She has no appearance of being enamoured or infatuated with us. She doesn't want anyone to know about her powers except us, who is both endowed with the same powers and, critically, a close friend.
Insecure and shy, yes, but not isolated. She has no problems being with the Misfits and our relationship with her grew as easily as it did with everyone else.
That's a reasonable thing to do. It's not a mark of instability and nothing so far has shown she's unstable.
And despite that has shown no signs that she's anything but normal, at least by our standards.
Gohan was not born that powerful. He only got to over 1k in his "fight" with Raditz because his rage boosts his power level.
Isn't that basically anyone Saiyan-saga Vegeta and up?
Frieza ruled the entire galaxy with less power than we had when we initially transformed into a Super Saiyan. So yes.
Well not all at once, but if we start making choices that undermine him we will go in that direction. Yes the jaffur thing was a mistake on his part, but that's because he was not thinking clearly on the issue, not because he isn't a good leader.
1) we are supervided, we are also a child of 10 so not an adult capable of caring for her needs and Goku is not a good example of responsble behavior.
2) it's as wild a guess as your guess that our dad will harm our friend.
Plus the whole masquerade thing is based on a paranoia that the qm and our people tell us is true...
3) delecting the memory of this encounter and having her followed to make sure she doesn't blow up the whole ki thing is the wrost I think could reasonably expect and for me that's a minor thing compard to jaffur's. If things go well on the other hand she get a support network larger than a 10 year old friend who have other things to think about beside her problems.
- Location
- Australia
Harm? No, I expect him to do a number of other unpleasant things, things like forbidding her from increasing her power level, or having someone spy on her, or forcibly inducting her into Saiyan society (with or without her knowledge). He's done at least one of those things before.
Yeah, exactly. That's something we want to avoid. She would have her memory deleted and a permanent stalker because she trusted her friend and her friend repaid that trust with betrayal.
Khona Moshr
Pink Flamingo Cabal Healer(they/them)
- Location
- Alabama
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] Plan Water Under the Bridge
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Easily.
That's true, but they were outliers. Both Goku and Gohan were much weaker at early ages than what evidence suggests the average was. After all, Raditz was once a terrible threat who cheerfully walked all over Goku while being considered only a mixing saiyan, and Goku was sent to Earth due to impardonable weakness. Gohan was considered at birth to be human plus a tail, with no exceptional power level to challenge that until he was pushed. Clearly, the standard is higher than we might first expect from the protagonists.
Vegeta at that time was a galactic factor. Ginyu was a factor. Even Cooler's goons were only factors, if substantial ones. They could be defined as accountable factors within the galactic system. They acted within a status quo, and could feasibly have some impact on it if they overcame other factors' opposition.
Freeza was a powerhouse. He defied classification or accounting by normal standards and could only be realistically opposed by another person of his weight class. By himself, he had enough power to redefine a galaxy's worth of politics and economics despite any quantity of objections from mere factors. Factors lived in the status quo he mandated. That he existed in a galaxy that regularly spat out universe-class powerhouses and multiverse-class factors does not diminish him or his standing. And that is exactly what I mean when I say, "powerhouse."
- Location
- Australia
Goku was born with a power level of 2, which Bardock was disappointed in specifically because it was merely average.
To my knowledge, Goku was sent to Earth to destroy everything because he was a Saiyan baby and that's what Saiyan babies did.
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If Saiyan Saga Vegeta didn't classify as a powerhouse, I doubt Maya's going to become one either unless we reveal our true power. After all, the guy surpasses his dad (who had a power level of at least abou 10.000) as a kid, yet still didn't become a powerhouse until much, much later (and that was mostly due to zenkais).
Ok lets agree we disagree on this. I'm not all that confortable to trust a 10 year old with a gun that could destroy a moon if not a planet without adult supervision, and I don't think our father would do something as drastic (through reversible, and not so bad in my opinion) as my wrost case scenario without trying other options, plus I sincerally don't see what's so bad with the induce her to Saiyan society, she would have peers and she would continue to live in the human world (please don't make asine comments about arranged marriages or kidnappings, our dad and society isn't that mostrous from what we have seen). But I understand not wanting to betray her trust indirectly by trusting our father (by telling him if she let us) if you don't trust him anymore after one bad choice on an issue he was not objective about.
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- Location
- Actually pretty lost
[X] Plan: Open and honest
[X] Ask Maya what's wrong.
-[X] In fact, hug her again. Couldn't hurt.
--[X] We thought she was keeping it a secret because no-one else could do this, and told us because we can... so we figured she'd be happy to tell Dad since he can do it too.
---[X] If she insists, then we won't insist...
----[X] ...But now we're worried about having told her that Dad can do it too without him knowing. It's a secret to everyone!
-----[X] If everything is said, done, and resolved, tease her. "So...you think I'm pretty?"
Okay, I like the last line of your plan so I added it to mine. To anyone who's unsure of the differences, WUTB's penultimate vote is this:
----[X] ...But now we've told her that Dad can do it too without him knowing, so she has to keep that a secret too! It's a secret to everyone!
The difference is that my plan leaves the way open for her to consider her position, in case it was a knee-jerk response to someone else being informed, whilst WUTB shuts down the "telling Dad" option entirely. I argue that giving Dad the option of either informing her about the Masque and Saiyans, or simply running with our story and helping us keep it straight, is superior to WUTB's complete backtracking on that point. @Andres110 (and correct me if I'm wrong) is concerned about the possible negative consequences of her discovering the Saiyans, which I think he is overestimating but which is overall fair enough as a position. But I would argue that if those consequences were to come about, Dad would instead choose not to tell her about the Saiyans in the first place and would instead help us with our story, as he doesn't want bad things to happen to Maya either.
TL,DR: If telling Maya about the Saiyans and the Masquerade would lead to Bad Things happening to her, Dad will choose not to tell her about them and will instead simply help us come up with/maintain a story.
[X] Ask Maya what's wrong.
-[X] In fact, hug her again. Couldn't hurt.
--[X] We thought she was keeping it a secret because no-one else could do this, and told us because we can... so we figured she'd be happy to tell Dad since he can do it too.
---[X] If she insists, then we won't insist...
----[X] ...But now we're worried about having told her that Dad can do it too without him knowing. It's a secret to everyone!
-----[X] If everything is said, done, and resolved, tease her. "So...you think I'm pretty?"
Okay, I like the last line of your plan so I added it to mine. To anyone who's unsure of the differences, WUTB's penultimate vote is this:
----[X] ...But now we've told her that Dad can do it too without him knowing, so she has to keep that a secret too! It's a secret to everyone!
The difference is that my plan leaves the way open for her to consider her position, in case it was a knee-jerk response to someone else being informed, whilst WUTB shuts down the "telling Dad" option entirely. I argue that giving Dad the option of either informing her about the Masque and Saiyans, or simply running with our story and helping us keep it straight, is superior to WUTB's complete backtracking on that point. @Andres110 (and correct me if I'm wrong) is concerned about the possible negative consequences of her discovering the Saiyans, which I think he is overestimating but which is overall fair enough as a position. But I would argue that if those consequences were to come about, Dad would instead choose not to tell her about the Saiyans in the first place and would instead help us with our story, as he doesn't want bad things to happen to Maya either.
TL,DR: If telling Maya about the Saiyans and the Masquerade would lead to Bad Things happening to her, Dad will choose not to tell her about them and will instead simply help us come up with/maintain a story.
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- Location
- Australia
That is not what it does. WUTB outright says that we're leaving the option up to her. The difference between these lines:
"But if she doesn't want to tell him, that's fine. It's completely up to her."
"If she insists, then we won't insist..."
Is that the former (from Water Under the Bridge) isn't a form of light insistence and thus isn't pressuring her to tell Dad.
The real difference is that O&H tries to guilt Maya by playing up our "worry" over telling her about Dad, which is a scummy thing to do to our friend.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
It just ocurred to me that, had we actually raised our PL then someone might have come to investigate and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Oh well, you know what they say about hindsight: it is for commoners that don't have seer powers. Of course, since it would take a while for us to master them...
It seems to me the issue is less about trusting dad (since we were going to call him anyways) and more about Kakara having so few friends that she (read: us) wants to have her cake and eat it by having Maya come willingly so that we can do our duty without hurting our friendship.
It seems to me the issue is less about trusting dad (since we were going to call him anyways) and more about Kakara having so few friends that she (read: us) wants to have her cake and eat it by having Maya come willingly so that we can do our duty without hurting our friendship.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
"..But now we've told her that Dad can do it too without him knowing, so she has to keep that a secret too! It's a secret to everyone!" is absolutely shutting down the "tell Dad" route and assuming we're going to be keeping it a secret.
I kind of missed the difference between the other two lines though, even after reading through them both three times, sorry about that. (At first, I thought your plan was mine with a tease added onto the end!) But I think it's perfectly reasonable to state that we think telling Dad is better than not telling Dad. That's not "guilting", that's "persuading", and it is very low-key. This is how regular conversation works - you try to bring others around to your point of view, and if you don't succeed that's fine.
We aren't "playing up" our worry, we are absolutely worried about Dad finding out we've kept this a secret (and if you aren't you really should be. This is absolutely "let's Mind Delve Kakara!" territory!)
I think it would be nice to do Saiyan things with Maya, yes.
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- Location
- Australia
That is not the issue. It's not about "friendship vs duty", it's about "letting Maya choose what is best for Maya vs deciding what is best for Maya and steering her towards our decision", the former being in line with being her friend and the latter being in line with pursuing our goals as much as we can despite friendship.
No it isn't. It's "You can tell Dad, but if you don't, don't tell people about Dad." It's not shutting down the Dad route, it's just saying she shouldn't tell her parents or the Misfits or others about Dad. (Including Dad, because we don't want to get in trouble.)
It's guilting at best, lying at worst. At best, it's saying "I'm scared of what happens if you don't tell Dad, so tell Dad or I'll be scared." At worst it's lying because there really isn't anything to be worried about if Maya doesn't tell Dad. The only way a problem can crop up is if he's told, not if he's not told. As it is, the worst that happens to Maya or anyone else if she doesn't tell Dad is that Maya misses out on cool Saiyan stuff. Nothing more.
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- Location
- Actually pretty lost
I agree it's not friendship vs duty - it's friendship and duty. Not only do I believe that she'll be better off for us telling Dad (since, as I have argued, if telling her about the Masquerade will lead to bad things he just won't do it) but we're the Goddamn Scion. It is absolutely our duty to tell Dad that "hey, a girl I know is displaying a Power Level way above what you would expect, does this have any implications for the Masquerade?"
Persuading someone that bad things might happen if they make a particular decision is not "guilting"; you don't "guilt" someone into putting on their seat belt. And it is not lying to say that I absolutely am scared of what happens if she doesn't tell Dad, and Dad finds out. She is a person who interacts with both us and Jaron on a regular basis (both of whom are under regular surveillance in Masque form), with a power level far higher than any other non-Saiyan on Garenhuld. A power level she's going to show off more around us, now that she's told us. A power level that will surely rise, unless we decide we're heartless monsters and refuse to have anything to do with her. If any of our observers notice she has a weirdly high power level, what do you think their first thought is going to be, if not "That's the Scion's friend... is she training her?!" or even just "Woah, how is her power level that high? I better call this in!" Or if she ever slips in her own hiding of her Power Level - which again, will only rise, and thus become more likely.
EDIT: I mean, that's a risk we might have to take if she has a good reason for not sharing - but wow do I hope we can convince her not to take that risk.
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Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
Actually, I was writing that before Deathbybunnies posted his latest plan. I wasn't talking about your discussion, it just ended being posted after it.
- Location
- Australia
It's also our duty to not betray Dad and perform treason, but we're doing that anyway because he will make the wrong calls when it comes to Jaffur. Maya wants to keep it a secret, she's good at keeping it a secret, and we can convince her to continue keeping it a secret if she for some reason changes her mind, not that that's likely. Nothing bad can or will happen if the status quo is kept, but telling Dad will compel him to act and that will only lead to bad things.
It would be telling her that it was a mistake to reveal her powers to us.
Maya has proven very adept at hiding her power level. We're the best ki senser in Garenhuld and we didn't get even a hint of her power despite being around her so often. All we'd have to do is tell her to keep her power level down or else Dad will sense it and he'll know, which Maya has decided didn't want to happen. Furthermore, we don't have any observers - Jaron does, so so long as she doesn't raise her power level near Jaron things will be fine.
Their first thoughts are twice irrelevant. Once because they'll never sense her power and twice because it would be easy to clarify what happened.
The ability to hide one's power level doesn't actually have anything to do with their power level. Ki Control is the only variable and Maya's good enough that she's hidden on a planet with Saiyans abound and us as a friend with no one the wiser.
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Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
I think you meant raise? As in, ability to hide one's power level has to do with ki control instead of máximum power level, so it wouldn't matter if she got stronger as long as she kept her PL low since they would only sense her when she exerts herself that way. Either that or other's ability to sense it? Either way, I think Deathbybunnies is worried about Maya unconsciously raising it in times of distress or if she gets really angry. Edit: Or if she wants to practice with Kakara, which can be countered by going to isolated locations that makes it unlikely for her to be sensed, which would have to be more and more remote as she grows stronger until she can be sensed from anywhere in the planet, which hopefully would be years down the line.
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- Location
- Australia
EDIT:
Maya has had her power for years now. I doubt she hasn't had moments of distress of significant anger in her life yet. If she has, then we know she can hide her power level. If she hasn't, we know she's got a good enough handle on her emotions that that isn't a problem.
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Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
Added another bit in an edit:
Or if she wants to practice with Kakara, which can be countered by going to isolated locations that makes it unlikely for her to be sensed, which would have to be more and more remote as she grows stronger until she can be sensed from anywhere in the planet, which hopefully would be years down the line.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Actually, I'd argue that it's our duty to, upon seeing our father make a huge mistake, attempt to rectify that mistake. Her ability to keep it a secret when she only uses it alone out in the woods is very different to her ability to keep it a secret when she uses it whilst interacting with the Scion.
It would be telling her that we think we just made a mistake telling her about Dad if she isn't okay with telling him about herself. Which, frankly, it sort of was, except every other option except telling her nothing was even worse.
Jaron has constant surveillance, but we regularly interact with other Masqued Saiyans - our family and Jaron's watchers, for instance.
I don't think we can guarantee that she'll stay hidden, especially if she grows more comfortable with the idea of "showing off" since shje's got a friend to talk to about it/show off to now. Clarifying what happened would be admitting we didn't tell them about this. There is no way we get out of that conversation without Dad Mind Delving us - what if we're lying about this? Or hiding more? We are.
I think you meant raise it, unless I'm going crazy. But actually, we have no idea if her control over her power level ever slips - such as, in times of stress - which will become much more obvious with a higher power level. And when training? We can't tell her not to use her power level then, that won't work!
Dang, now I got ninja'd!
Eventually, as a "galactic powerhouse" without a warded training hall of her own, she's going to be caught. It will likely happen before we pull off our Jaffur rescue. And then shit will hit the fan.
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