Dragon Ball: After the End

[KaintukeeBob]

[X] Plan Tea Party
[X] I haven't seen Betreal in SO LONG! Like, forever. I wanted to see him again! He was my first real friend, you know. I wanted to invite him to a tea party for all of my non-Super Saiyan friends! I'm gonna invite Sophie and Maya and Jennifer - she hates being called Jenny - and Gemina and Jaron and Felicity and I'd love if you can come as Barry or Barney or whatever your Masqued name is.
-[X] I also wanted to make sure none of you had been doing something super illegal, like dying your hair blonde. Lotsa stuff is happening, and I really really really hope you can all stop hiding soon, but if there's been any hair dye involved, it'll be SO. MUCH. HARDER.
-[X] Oh, they threw Jaffur's mom out of the Ancestor Cult thingy and I stopped a coup just by making people talk! You'll probably hear about it on the radio soon. Your radio still works, right? It isn't blocked by all the hiding magic you're using?
-[X] Anyway, I just want to see when you guys are coming back to the non-hiding world, because it'll be much better to have you all together. Maybe we can get everyone together and talk?

(All language used above is an example, not intended to be used as-is. The general tone and content is all you'd be voting for)


Please remember: they're cut off from Saiyan society, they literally haven't heard much of the goings on of the past year or so (outside of the radio broadcast, if they can still get that). Most Senzus can't go out into 'public' as Saiyans, and I'm guessing that Masqued Saiyans can't get a lot of news about the unMasqued world.

Anyway, the general thought of my vote is to push them to rejoin society, hopefully get the Senzus, the Vegetas, and the Gokus to sit down at a table, and casually check if they have any Super Saiyans (and encourage them to NOT have any, if they don't already).

I'm really trying to play up the Oddball here, hoping to keep them off balance. The discrepancy between what they may have heard about our recent behavior (assuming they had an informant in the Council) and our actions here would help with that, and I'm hopeful that we can actually get them to come to a table. Whether or not that table is set up for a tea party is up for debate.

 

[anailater]

I really don't like that vote at all.
First issue is it should say saiyan friends, not super saiyan friends, then I'm not a fan of revealing we're friends with masqued Jaron.
The second part doesn't sound like us at all, like seriously we're the scion, we are young but we don't talk like a stereotypical valley girl on LSD.

 

[PoptartProdigy]

Spoiler: Foreword

The placebo effect: If you give someone a pill that does nothing and tell them it makes their skin itch, their skin might start itching after taking the pill. The cause is incorrect, but their symptoms are real - they really do have itchy skin afterwards. In Dragon Ball, Man-Wolf was turned back into a human by hypnotising him into thinking Krillin's bald head was a full moon.

This is basically an idea/suggestion in the form of an omake. Took me a week on-and-off to get it done but here it is at last.

Remember the Power


Kakara stepped back and forth, rubbing her hands, anxious at what she was about to do. That first vision of hers when she consciously looked for one, the horrible one that Sensei said was a false vision, it was one that she didn't want to remember. The way she was, the things that were happening, it was worse than a nightmare. It would be a blessing to forget, but she can't. Or rather, she won't.

As much as it would be easier to try not to think about it, Kakara has to remember it. Sensei said it was a false vision, something that won't come true, and it's not something Kakara would let come true, but it doesn't change that it was a vision. It's not something she imagined, it's something her power showed her. The sound, the feelings, the smells...they were all what she would feel if that actually happened, she knew this.

And in that vision she experienced the second level - Super Saiyan 2. It was only for a moment but she felt its power running through her body and she remembered it. They say that Goku became more powerful after the God transformation ran out because his body remembered his power, and while Kakara never actually reached the second level, her mind did. She probably can't reach the Super Saiyan 2 just because of it, nor should she if she could, but if she ever needs to transform, remembering the feeling may help her do so.

So now, Kakara is going to sit down in this private, warded corner of hers away from everyone else and meditate. She's going to run the memory of the vision through her mind and she's going to do so every once in a while from now on so she can't forget. She tortured herself for a year just so she wouldn't lose a fight if someone grabbed her tail, she can do this...

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Hm...let's try something new for the rewards system. This gets canon status and provides a cookie's worth of a bonus towards your "control the transformation" check when/if you go SSJ2. You may remember that check as the one that, once failed, led to Kakara gleefully planning to snip Jaffur's head off with her bare hands.

 

[KaintukeeBob]

I really don't like that vote at all.
First issue is it should say saiyan friends, not super saiyan friends, then I'm not a fan of revealing we're friends with masqued Jaron.
The second part doesn't sound like us at all, like seriously we're the scion, we are young but we don't talk like a stereotypical valley girl on LSD.

Click to shrink...

True...but not all of the people invited (in fact, most of them) are Saiyans. And we don't indicate AT ALL that Jaron is Jaffur's Masque.

And the 'valley girl on LSD' is part of how I'm invoking Oddball - if they've heard the events of the 2nd Council, it will take them completely off guard.

In short, you are misunderstanding the purpose of how I phrased the invitees and you are complaining about something that was my intended goal.

That said, I'll be just as happy if my vote doesn't win, as long as the winner is something better. Please suggest a better plan.

No, really, please. My plan isn't even good, it's just the least bad thing I could think to suggest. Please suggest something better.

 

[ShadowAngelBeta]

Should we mention that the patriarch and matriarch are moving as well? On the one hand if they're too far into rebellion then we just revealed an ace we have, on the other hand if they're not then they'll be more reassured that something is being done.

...Maybe not the best reason, but so far the only one they even have an idea that might be on Jaffar's side is us. If they are on Jaffar's side anyway.

... *sigh* fucking politics.

 

[Aranfan]

[X] Plan Tea Party

 

[Bakkasama]

...

I don't think Tea party is a good idea. I mean, Oddball was good to diffuse the tensión of the first meeting but in this case it might be better to play on the Vegetan respect for authority. Or at least not act as a vale guild when he expects a serious discussion. I mean, he went into rebellion for this, let's not make light of it.

[X] The current situation with clan Vegeta and Dandeer's regency is untenable and if left as it is, it would tear our society apart. We have been working on contingencies for it for the last two years and on ways to resolve it. Given that last time we meet we were both working on stopping this from ever happening, we would like to hear his thoughts on the matter though. What has him and his family been doing these last few years? What are their intentions?

There, to kickstart the serious proposals.

 

[Terrabrand]

[X]Politely request that he explain why his House has gone into hiding these past few years. Many disagreed with the sealing of the Vegetas, but none of them went into what could be seen as a rebellion (try and work out if Raditz did so because he tried to power up, but don't say so). Explain that we are looking for a way to resolve this difficult situation peacefully, but don't imply that we're planning to unlawfully reverse the sealing. He's the Head of a rich and powerful house, he's likely better at politics than we are - at least the dishonest bits.

Right...I wonder how they deal with (if it's ever happened) if someone accidently goes SS, I mean grief is the key emotional trigger and a need of course. What would be the course of action...punishing them for something that's (kinda) out of your control?

What would be the protocol?

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Well, PoptartProdigy has mentioned previously that it's something that doesn't tend to come up what with the lords removing the need aspect, in most conditions.

 

[Bommelom]

I'm really trying to play up the Oddball here, hoping to keep them off balance. The discrepancy between what they may have heard about our recent behavior (assuming they had an informant in the Council) and our actions here would help with that, and I'm hopeful that we can actually get them to come to a table. Whether or not that table is set up for a tea party is up for debate.

Click to shrink...

I don't think this is a good idea, we want him to respect us, not think Kakara is an idiot.

Many disagreed with the sealing of the Vegetas, but none of them went into what could be seen as a rebellion (try and work out if Raditz did so because he tried to power up, but don't say so). Explain that we are looking for a way to resolve this difficult situation peacefully, but don't imply that we're planning to unlawfully reverse the sealing. He's the Head of a rich and powerful house, he's likely better at politics than we are - at least the dishonest bits.

Click to shrink...

I think this is beating a bit too much around the bush. If we want to know why they were hiding, why not ask? It's not like they'll be offended. Also don't see why we can't just tell Raditz we want to unseal Jaffur, it's not like he can do anything with the information.

..But, right, should probably just vote.

[X] Plan Honest Truth
-[X] Tell him you came here because you want to unseal Jaffur, and, well, Dandelor is a sorceror who's very opposed to Dandeer. You also want to ask him a few questions, though.
-[X] Don't necessarily do everything below in order, do it in the way that makes most sense.
-[X] You're curious to why precisely they hid, and what they have been doing for the last two years.
--[X] Did they hide because Raditz almost transformed, because they believe Dandeer's rule is unlawful or because they're planning something?
-[X] What do they know about the seal? Do they know how to undo it?
--[X] If they don't know, tell them that Jaron and Jaffur are separate people and the seal trapped Jaffur within his own mind.
---[X] Note that Jaffur seems to be growing attached to Jaron and that simply unsealing Jaffur by getting rid of Jaron might not be a good idea.
-[X] How much do they know about what's been happening outside?
--[X] If the answer is "not much", tell them the important events of the last two years.
-[X] What do they think should be done with Lord Vegeta? Also, while you think he's a horrible father and person, how was he as a ruler compared to Yammar, or, if they've been observing recent events, Dandeer?

Just tell them why we're here and ask them what we want to ask, no need to be tricky. Not completely sure if asking about Vegeta is a good idea, though.

 

[Terrabrand]

[X] Plan Honest Truth

Okay, I can work with this better.

 

[Aranfan]

[X] Plan Honest Truth

 

[jamie96969]

[X] Plan Honest Truth

 

[KnightDisciple]

[X] Plan Honest Truth

 

[Andres]

-[X] What do they think should be done with Lord Vegeta? Also, while you think he's a horrible father and person, how was he as a ruler compared to Yammar, or, if they've been observing recent events, Dandeer?

Click to shrink...

Why are we asking this? We're not releasing Vegeta, he is far too evil and cruel to let free. If we do so we will be directly responsible for all the suffering he'll cause, to his family, to his subjects, and to all Saiyans.

 

[Gore17]

Why are we asking this? We're not releasing Vegeta, he is far too evil and cruel to let free. If we do so we will be directly responsible for all the suffering he'll cause, to his family, to his subjects, and to all Saiyans.

Click to shrink...

That's presumably why they're asking.

 

[Bommelom]

Why are we asking this? We're not releasing Vegeta, he is far too evil and cruel to let free. If we do so we will be directly responsible for all the suffering he'll cause, to his family, to his subjects, and to all Saiyans.

Click to shrink...

Because, well, if the Senzus want to release Vegeta, it's better for us to know sooner rather than later.

I don't think we'll be the one to decide whether or not to release Vegeta, though. If we unseal Jaffur, there's not much we can do to prevent him from having his father unsealed if he wants that to happen other than sealing him again.

 

[Deathbybunnies]

I think this is beating a bit too much around the bush. If we want to know why they were hiding, why not ask? It's not like they'll be offended. Also don't see why we can't just tell Raditz we want to unseal Jaffur, it's not like he can do anything with the information.

Click to shrink...

I did ask why they went into hiding - I just also mentioned that we should try and figure out whether his transformation attempt was a factor without explicitly asking, even if he doesn't mention it. And I think we should, at first, be a little tricky; these guys are in active rebellion for a reason, and we don't actually know what that reason is yet. Best not lay all our cards on the table from the get go when we don't need to, we're in the position of power here.

I'm not saying we won't ever be up-front, but right at the start a little sounding out is probably prudent, so I'm sticking to my plan.

 

[Gore17]

I did ask why they went into hiding

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We know why they went into hiding: our father would kill them otherwise.

House Senzu [Serious]: Your father has made his position clear: Head Raditz's attempt at transforming during the Sealing was lawbreaking and as good as treason. Their rebellion against Dandeer Vegeta since is only worse, in his eyes. He seems to regret the situation, but shows no signs of backing down.

Click to shrink...

 

[Bommelom]

We know why they went into hiding: our father would kill them otherwise.

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That was after their decision to go into hiding, though. He might have judged differently if Raditz (and the rest of House Senzu) had eventually accepted the sealing of Jaffur and Vegeta.

 

[Lailoken]

Seriously, don't let him frame the conversation here. There is absolutely no reason why Kakara should be the one answering questions instead of asking them here, and he knows it. He's hoping that we'll be casual enough to let him set her up to go first anyway. The fact that he doesn't have an angry Super-Saiyan lord blasting his way in right at this very moment is already enough starting evidence of Kakara's good intentions. She doesn't have anything more to prove until he explains himself. She shouldn't even be asking specific questions here, because that reveals what she already knows and he isn't in the slightest bit entitled to that. Every piece of information we volunteer is a chance to screw up our ability to pursue our goals, and if we haven't gotten anything from him first we're disadvantaged in deciding what and how to present.

 

[Deathbybunnies]

Seriously, don't let him frame the conversation here. There is absolutely no reason why Kakara should be the one answering questions instead of asking them here, and he knows it. He's hoping that we'll be casual enough to let him set her up to go first anyway. The fact that he doesn't have an angry Super-Saiyan lord blasting his way in right at this very moment is already enough starting evidence of Kakara's good intentions. She doesn't have anything more to prove until he explains himself. She shouldn't even be asking specific questions here, because that reveals what she already knows and he isn't in the slightest bit entitled to that. Every piece of information we volunteer is a chance to screw up our ability to pursue our goals, and if we haven't gotten anything from him first we're disadvantaged in deciding what and how to present.

Click to shrink...

I completely agree. we have no reason to volunteer any information, and he has every reason to answer our questions. We can always decide to tell him (or not) after we have our answers, and will be able to make a better judgement call with more information.

EDIT: I mean, we can be polite about it - not giving away our plans doesn't mean we have to be unnecessarily aggressive; depending on his answers, we might want to work with him in the future.

 

[Lailoken]

We know why they went into hiding: our father would kill them otherwise.

Click to shrink...

Berra already had the opportunity to execute him, and didn't take it. While his opinion certainly carries a lot of weight, he doesn't actually have any authority over them in anything but extremis.

I completely agree. we have no reason to volunteer any information, and he has every reason to answer our questions. We can always decide to tell him (or not) after we have our answers, and will be able to make a better judgement call with more information.

EDIT: I mean, we can be polite about it - not giving away our plans doesn't mean we have to be unnecessarily aggressive; depending on his answers, we might want to work with him in the future.

Click to shrink...

I've written up what is really the most benevolent response he could have any reason to hope for. He's lucky he isn't getting smacked around for trying to con her into a disfavored negotiating position in the first place.

[X] "I have held my peace on that matter for several years, and feel it best to continue for at least a moment longer. In fact, I would suggest that since the very fact of this conversation already demonstrates my general goodwill it would be more fitting for you to be the one to begin the disclosures. What are your intentions and methods, and why is assisting you the right thing for me to do? Convince me."​

 

[Gore17]

That was after their decision to go into hiding, though. He might have judged differently if Raditz (and the rest of House Senzu) had eventually accepted the sealing of Jaffur and Vegeta.

Click to shrink...

Except:

"No. This...is not your affair. Not your business. You have no right! I...I..."

Raditz's power level spikes-

CRASH

"You dare?!" roars Dad, suddenly out of sight. "Your resistance, I can understand, but to dare reach for the transformation? Don't you speak to me of what my rights are, you lawbreaking cretin!"

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As far as he knew, Berra and Dandeer would view him disfavourably, and he was there when House Talt was tortured to death.

Berra already had the opportunity to execute him, and didn't take it. While his opinion certainly carries a lot of weight, he doesn't actually have any authority over them in anything but extremis.

Click to shrink...

Again, see above.

Seriously, don't let him frame the conversation here. There is absolutely no reason why Kakara should be the one answering questions instead of asking them here, and he knows it. He's hoping that we'll be casual enough to let him set her up to go first anyway. The fact that he doesn't have an angry Super-Saiyan lord blasting his way in right at this very moment is already enough starting evidence of Kakara's good intentions. She doesn't have anything more to prove until he explains himself. She shouldn't even be asking specific questions here, because that reveals what she already knows and he isn't in the slightest bit entitled to that. Every piece of information we volunteer is a chance to screw up our ability to pursue our goals, and if we haven't gotten anything from him first we're disadvantaged in deciding what and how to present.

Click to shrink...

I completely agree. we have no reason to volunteer any information, and he has every reason to answer our questions. We can always decide to tell him (or not) after we have our answers, and will be able to make a better judgement call with more information.

EDIT: I mean, we can be polite about it - not giving away our plans doesn't mean we have to be unnecessarily aggressive; depending on his answers, we might want to work with him in the future.

Click to shrink...

I've written up what is really the most benevolent response he could have any reason to hope for. He's lucky he isn't getting smacked around for trying to con her into a disfavored negotiating position in the first place.

Click to shrink...

You're assuming the worst of him and his behaviour, I'll note. And assuming that this isn't some sort of protocol in Clan Vegeta.

 

[Deathbybunnies]

Berra already had the opportunity to execute him, and didn't take it. While his opinion certainly carries a lot of weight, he doesn't actually have any authority over them in anything but extremis.





I've written up what is really the most benevolent response he could have any reason to hope for. He's lucky he isn't getting smacked around for trying to con her into a disfavored negotiating position in the first place.

[X] "I have held my peace on that matter for several years, and feel it best to continue for at least a moment longer. In fact, I would suggest that since the very fact of this conversation already demonstrates my general goodwill it would be more fitting for you to be the one to begin the disclosures. What are your intentions and methods, and why is assisting you the right thing for me to do? Convince me."​

Click to shrink...

On the other hand, I think that's going a bit too far in the other direction; we might end up agreeing with and wanting to work with him. We simply don't need to be that antagonistic. my vote:

[X]Politely request that he explain why his House has gone into hiding these past few years. Many disagreed with the sealing of the Vegetas, but none of them went into what could be seen as a rebellion (try and work out if Raditz did so because he tried to power up, but don't say so). Explain that we are looking for a way to resolve this difficult situation peacefully, but don't imply that we're planning to unlawfully reverse the sealing. He's the Head of a rich and powerful house, he's likely better at politics than we are - at least the dishonest bits.

It comes across as much friendlier, but doesn't actually give anything away apart from a vague "want to resolve this peacefully". Being in a position of power should certainly be leveraged, but I don't want to make an enemy if we don't have to.

EDIT: For those who want to just spill our guts to the guy, remember he's the Head of House Senzu. They're rich and well-connected; this man is going to be a politician through and through. I don't believe they intend anything physically hostile, but he's invited us back to his house because he thinks it's the best way to get what he wants. We don't know that the guy is working against our interests, but we similarly we can't know that his interests align with ours either; we need more information before making any decisions, especially one as serious as letting slip we might be plotting treason against our father and Dandeer.

 

[Lailoken]

Except:

As far as he knew, Berra and Dandeer would view him disfavourably, and he was there when House Talt was tortured to death.

Again, see above.



You're assuming the worst of him and his behaviour, I'll note. And assuming that this isn't some sort of protocol in Clan Vegeta.

Click to shrink...

Had Berra executed him right there he'd probably have been considered within his rights, but Lord Goku doesn't have the authority after the fact. It's entirely possible that Raditz was frightened of what the Regent would decide, but that's not what was argued, and it doesn't really explain his decision to hide his entire house.

-and I'm 99% sure that the proper Vegetan protocol for his situation is either prostrated begging or some sort of honorable suicide, possibly by proxy. In any case, Kakara isn't Vegetan, and his status as a rebel makes him doubly unentitled to demand upfront concessions from her based on Vegetan protocol. The game theoretic situation here is clear and he knows perfectly well that anything other than a summary demand for explanation would be the product of either incompetence or pure grace. Considering that the opportunity to explain himself at all is already grace, he can't really complain if he doesn't get offered even more right off the bat.

On the other hand, I think that's going a bit too far in the other direction; we might end up agreeing with and wanting to work with him. We simply don't need to be that antagonistic. my vote:

[X]Politely request that he explain why his House has gone into hiding these past few years. Many disagreed with the sealing of the Vegetas, but none of them went into what could be seen as a rebellion (try and work out if Raditz did so because he tried to power up, but don't say so). Explain that we are looking for a way to resolve this difficult situation peacefully, but don't imply that we're planning to unlawfully reverse the sealing. He's the Head of a rich and powerful house, he's likely better at politics than we are - at least the dishonest bits.

It comes across as much friendlier, but doesn't actually give anything away apart from a vague "want to resolve this peacefully". Being in a position of power should certainly be leveraged, but I don't want to make an enemy if we don't have to.

Click to shrink...

Kakara could well be considered complicit in the rebellion if she does anything but immediately tell her father what she knows. She is taking a huge risk just talking to him. This is an extremely serious matter for both of them, and it isn't antagonistic to treat it seriously. Even a flat, "You have exactly one chance to convince me why I should risk my life for you," wouldn't be out of line, because giving them that one chance and just considering risking her life for them in the first place is already incredibly generous.