- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I should probably edit that to say "not closed" instead, because that's really what it's supposed to mean. No votes yet.
Dragon Ball: After the End
- Location
- Somewhere on Earth
Hrmm.
I think we'll have to work on Dandeer a bit more soon, at this point she's being pressured like crazy and can't find any way out, maybe if we speak to her soon and give her an 'out' she'd take it.
I think we'll have to work on Dandeer a bit more soon, at this point she's being pressured like crazy and can't find any way out, maybe if we speak to her soon and give her an 'out' she'd take it.
- Location
- Australia
I have no problem with the idea that redemption is possible, even for the worst offenders. Vegeta is proof of that. What I disagreed with is the idea that we can't judge a person based on what we know about them.
Terrabrand's point of "We don't know if he liked killing children" does have merit and it does warrant giving Yammar the benefit of the doubt because he might truly regret his actions. The reason why I think he shouldn't get it is because he didn't just kill children, he bragged about it. That implies he's completely fine with it, doesn't regret it, and hasn't repented because he thinks there's nothing to repent for.
Yammar killed children and bragged about it on stage. What I'm seeing is arguing in favour of giving him the benefit of the doubt in spite of it. It's like saying we can't say Frieza is an evil person because we don't know for sure that he wasn't donating all the profits from the PTO to puppy orphanages. I'm sure that's not what either you or Terrabrand meant and it feels like a strawman even to me, but I don't know of any other way to interpret what your posts said.
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- Location
- Australia
There probably were those who were sympathetic with her plight, but it doesn't excuse what she did to Jaffur.
- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
Given his overall conduct, I don't feel bragging is accurate.
Otherwise, I will limit myself to saying that my point, personally, can be summed up as 'this is our first meeting with him and we had limited rumors alone to work off previously'. We know he killed kids, yes. We don't really know how he conducted himself then or any of what he did prior or hence.
Whereas we knew even before we met him, so to speak, in canon, that Frieza was a galactic tyrant. We learned very early of his annihilation of the Saiyan homeworld. He was unendingly cruel from the first moment he came on screen. There is a minute chance in the early scenes he was 'not so bad', and then he tries to take advantage of Goku's kindness to blow up the world, as i recall.
In short, I'm saying we have too little evidence and too much room, especially now that we've seen him, for the assumptions of guilt on Yammar to be... Exxagerated, and him A Good Man 99% of the time. We, for example, had no clue he was a member of the ancestor cult. Wat other defining features might we be unaware of?
Put another way, he is perhaps more likely than not to be Evil, but it's a 75%/25% kinda divide, not 99+% likely evil.
There were, but they were too afraid of Yammar and their fellow members of the Faith to defend a widely hated person who was just cast out for heresy. Remember, the previous updates mentioned Dandeers having supporters gathered around her.
- Location
- Somewhere on Earth
Look, what she did was a bad thing, straight up, as horrible as her husband was, sealing him like that has caused serious destabilisation towards Saiyan society, and is literally heresy in the eyes of that cult, yes I'm sympathetic towards her, but I'm like that because of how traumatised she is, not because I feel her actions were right to take.
- Location
- Australia
@PoptartProdigy
What was so disastrous about Vina's regency?
First Form Frieza killed Bardock with a power level 50 times greater than he completely effortlessly even though he wasn't specifically targeting Bardock. A maximum-trained Full Power Super Saiyan is 75 times more powerful than a base Saiyan can possibly be, so how can mere numbers help at that point? Could they all keep up Kaioken x10 indefinitely? I mean...100,000 humans of a power level of 5 can't defeat First Form Frieza just because their total power level would be the same.
EDIT: Even with a drastically smaller difference in power, you still get this.
EDIT2: Wait...I think this has been answered before. Has this been answered before? Sorry if it has.
What was so disastrous about Vina's regency?
First Form Frieza killed Bardock with a power level 50 times greater than he completely effortlessly even though he wasn't specifically targeting Bardock. A maximum-trained Full Power Super Saiyan is 75 times more powerful than a base Saiyan can possibly be, so how can mere numbers help at that point? Could they all keep up Kaioken x10 indefinitely? I mean...100,000 humans of a power level of 5 can't defeat First Form Frieza just because their total power level would be the same.
EDIT: Even with a drastically smaller difference in power, you still get this.
EDIT2: Wait...I think this has been answered before. Has this been answered before? Sorry if it has.
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- Location
- Australia
+20 from Talented Communication, +30 from cookies, +something from Convictions, +something from Level-Headed, +something from Mature, +something from Pacifist, +something Open-Armed, +something from Socialiser...
Does anyone want to try convincing Dandeer to break the seal on Jaffur? Even if the DC was 100 we'd have a minimum 50% chance of success on that front.
Does anyone want to try convincing Dandeer to break the seal on Jaffur? Even if the DC was 100 we'd have a minimum 50% chance of success on that front.
- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
Maybe try an argument to the tune of it being a good first step for repentance and possibly being accepted back into the faith?
- Location
- Australia
No, she cares more about her family than her former cult. We can use the emotional distress caused by her excommunication as leverage, but we can't use the excommunication itself as leverage.
The argument we need to use is the secret we need to reveal to her anyway if we ask her to break the Seal - the truth about what actually happened to Jaffur. We need to tell her about the prison we saw she locked Jaffur into, that it hasn't locked the bad parts of him away so much as it locked ALL of him away. For that reason she should free him. Of course, we'd also have to reveal that Jaron is a real person as well and just as much her son as Jaffur. It's not a simple matter of deactivating Jaron and letting Jaffur come to the fore, because doing so will either kill or imprison Jaron. We'll need her to split the two minds into two bodies, not just break the Seal.
At the end of our argument, that's when we should say we'll speak to the Cult on her behalf to be let back in should she want us to. Not as incentive to free Jaffur, but as a simple consequence of doing the right thing and us responding appropriately.
- Location
- Somewhere on Earth
Doubtful it'd work, Dandeer has been pushed so much that she's likely fallen back on Jaron as practically the one thing in her life that she feels doesn't hate her, now that she's been excommunicated from the faith she's really going to ball up, like, imagine you're in that situation, you're just going to let your son and husband go back to being the tormented monster and terrifying abuser you saw in them many times before just for the slim chance that less people might hate you then? She was minutes away from being lynched back there.
Y'know that saying 'you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink'? We first have to show her that what she did was bad, and then give her an out to the tune of "We'll do all we can to help you".
Edit: DAMNIT ANDRES YOU BLOODY NINJA
I'm seeing somebody who is exquisitely aware that his entire society teeters on a mere perception of weakness.
- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
So, hey, just finished reading the lore/history screen, and I love it. That is all.
Now would be the time. Kakara just saved her life from the father of the monster who tortured her, and if she were ever going to have any doubts would be now.
- Location
- Somewhere on Earth
We probably shouldn't focus on getting the seal broken, though, again, we need to convince her what she did was bad, but when she was just exposed to the father of her husband, she's likely going to be thinking the sealing was a better idea than ever at this point, what would be good is to try and build a bit more of a rapport with her, so we can more easily convince her that what she did was wrong later.
- Location
- Just passing through.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[x] Go see Fennella before you go.
- Location
- Australia
[X] Go to Dandeer. Inform her about Jaffur and Jaron, and try to convince her to help us with the unsealing in a way that won't hurt either of her sons.
I'll put 3 of my cookies into convincing her to accept. I'll put all of my cookies in if it involves more than one roll.
I'll put 3 of my cookies into convincing her to accept. I'll put all of my cookies in if it involves more than one roll.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Ah! We've been talking past each other. You can't judge where Yemma will put him, no, but the point of me saying, "but none of this matters, figure it out yourselves," was to point out that you the real life people can and should make your judgments based on what you know.
*-AReallyBigNumber from Dandeer's personality tags*
I will say that as of this moment, a straight Communication check to get her to undo the Seal is possible. It wasn't in the immediate aftermath.
- Location
- Australia
So it's possible to convince her now but it wasn't possible in the time between her excommunication and before she left the Hall?
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