- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
You can always reference the actual Rules Screen, under the Informational Threadmarks.
*eyes the Informational threadmarks*
*eyes, "Discord Server Link"*
Dragon Ball: After the End
*eyes, "Discord Server Link"*
- Location
- Italy
I think Gohan did something similar to it once in the pre-tournament of power, against that wolf guy that blinded him. He basically expanded his super saiyan aura to sense his movements and attacks before they could connect with him.
Of course that was VERY short ranged, so it's not exactly what you're thinking of, but it's a starting point. Your idea reminds me a bit of "En" from HunterxHunter, except with ki.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
Gohan does that in the Dragon Ball Super anime. He was fighting a wolf man whose ki he couldn't sense and the wolf had used a poisonous ki technique to blind Gohan. So since he couldn't see or sense his opponent he turned super saiyan and saturated the air with his ki to sense the fluctuations when his opponent moved through it.
Edit: Ninja'd
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Sounds like a niche application. Possibly worth looking into if we know we're going to fight an android or something, but probably not worth it otherwise.
- Location
- Not here. Maybe on SB.
Um, sure? I'll try, at least.But why you say that?
With Machine Sense we wouldn't need that (at least against androids).
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Oh, whoops. I checked the first posts of the thread and didn't see it, my bad*eyes, "Discord Server Link"*
Part of the reason I thought of this was as a kind of halfway-machine sense. It's not quite the same thing, but it means we aren't acting completely blind against high level android opponents as we would be otherwise.
Also, I could imagine it might be possible to create a variant to be used offensively in kind of the same way Dazarel used his telekinesis.
- Location
- Italy
we could certainly sense them. using their energy though...
Well, i see it like this
1)we can already use it. after all we saw 17 and 18 raise their hand for the genkidama both against kid bu and jiren.
2)We can't use it, and machine sense likely wouldn't change things. They gave what was basically their "human" energy, but the energy the androids use is not ki in the way that counts, so there is no "genki" for them to gift. This might very well be a limitation of the technique itself.
- Location
- United States
Machine sense seems like a really cool talent for a path we didn't take. If we'd gone deep into tinkering, machine sense would probably synergize with that. And as far as we know, there are only two androids in the whole universe, and while we'll probably interact with them eventually, it's probably going to be a while.
On the other hand, we have a talent that obviously synergizes with the genki dama, which is a pretty big deal, and seems open ended enough that we'll probably be able to do lots of neat things with it. Redirecting or absorbing ki attacks because everything is basically our ki? Some ki-based version of Jaffur's synchronicity spell, because we sense others' ki just that well? Maybe doing the same for opponents, too. What about donating more ki, letting us act in the galaxy through non-Saiyans without being exposed? What about letting us make our ki look like someone else's?
I can't tell you precisely what All is One will do, but it'll probably do a bunch of useful stuff.
On the other hand, we have a talent that obviously synergizes with the genki dama, which is a pretty big deal, and seems open ended enough that we'll probably be able to do lots of neat things with it. Redirecting or absorbing ki attacks because everything is basically our ki? Some ki-based version of Jaffur's synchronicity spell, because we sense others' ki just that well? Maybe doing the same for opponents, too. What about donating more ki, letting us act in the galaxy through non-Saiyans without being exposed? What about letting us make our ki look like someone else's?
I can't tell you precisely what All is One will do, but it'll probably do a bunch of useful stuff.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
It kind of sounds like we'd be swapping out a Ki Sense Talent for a Ki Sense or Control Talent.Oh, whoops. I checked the first posts of the thread and didn't see it, my bad
Part of the reason I thought of this was as a kind of halfway-machine sense. It's not quite the same thing, but it means we aren't acting completely blind against high level android opponents as we would be otherwise.
Also, I could imagine it might be possible to create a variant to be used offensively in kind of the same way Dazarel used his telekinesis.
I'd note that Machine Sense works at distances that this talent wouldn't, so I'm not sure it would be an improvement.
- Location
- Italy
There are probably more, but the two are the most important AND the strongest as far as we know.
Gero certainly was a genius, especially if they really became stronger with time like it seemed in db super.
..of course there's always a chance of some other races managing to create androids as strong or even stronger than them, but it's a bit unlikely. Gero had the advantage of access to TRUE martial artists, and through them had a more comprehensive understanding of Ki that nearly anyone outside Earth and Namek (and maybe Yardrat)
yeah, that pseudo-En sounds a lot like a ki control talent to me.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
8, 17, and 18 raised their hands for the genki dama agaisnt Buu. I see no reason why we wouldn't be able to draw on them by default.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I'm not sure that it would be an elite level talent if it was one. It's something that's been done before, after all. And it's definitely not intended to be an improvement on machine sense, just an alternative if we don't pick it.
OfSpaceandTime
Chaotically Inclined
- Location
- Ohio
- Pronouns
- Anything non-rude.
And Eighter is an actual machine, unlike 17 and 18 who do still have organic bits to them.
- Location
- Italy
to be fair while we see them raising their hands that doesn't necessarily mean their energy actually went to the genkidama. It's basically up to Poptart, it can be read either way.
while it has technically been done before, if no record of it remains it's basically a new discovery for us.
I mean, there's a chance that perfect multiform actually HAS been done before by Cell, but it's still an elite talent for us.
I'd say the easiest/shortest explanation for an elite talent could be "something that is beyond acknowledged mastery of the skill as presently understood".
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I just don't see extending one's ki a distance around oneself to be especially difficult or technical as to require an elite talent. Of course, I'd drop it if it turned out to be, but in comparison to more... conceptually complex tasks as even something like basic Multiform, it just doesn't seem to be much, you know?
- Location
- Italy
that would depend entirely on the EXTENT to which you spread your ki though, and how much more aware of things surrounding you it makes you.
Imagine, for example, using your ki to basically saturate the atmosphere of an entire planet. Or an entire solar system.
Also if your ki is spread around enough then it should be harder for your opponents to sense your precise location, which can be useful in a fight, especially if we combine it with IT to actually disappear without him being able to follow us either with his eyes or ki sense
You rated my literally-just-a-sad-reaction post Funny, which I'd assumed meant you were laughing at my misery?
But why you say that?
I know what they refer to in mechanical terms, which is to say "special abilities associated with Elite and Legendary skill levels", and I know what they mean in descriptive terms, which is "innovations that push the boundaries of the field". But I'm not quite sure what their intended purpose is - I'd been modeling it as "a cool way to emphasize the nature of mastery, which doubles as a new trick".
But that conflicts with "they're too powerful; no one should ever get more than two". So now I'm guessing they're supposed to be "unique trumpcards associated with achieving the highest levels of ability". Is that accurate?
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Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
- Location
- Something Clever
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I don't think the idea is "too powerful" so much as "too innovative" - it strains credulity for one person, no matter how talented, to revolutionize the same subject in too many different ways.
Which runs headlong into both genre tropes and actual history. Jaffur invented a whole, unprecedented style, including all the techniques - why should Kakara be incapable of inventing more than two revolutionary things in Ki Sensing, provided she finds inspirations for them?
(As for the history, there are at least two scientists I know of - one of them Newton, if I recall correctly - who came up with an awful lot of revolutionary - and correct - science, which they proceeded to get no credit for by the simple expedient of failing to tell anyone.)
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
If you know their mechanical and descriptive functions, I don't know why you need me to justify my design principles in order to function as a player.
- Location
- Italy
it's not that they're too powerfull.
it's that they're COMPLETE DISRUPTIONS OF WHAT HIS THOUGHT TO BE POSSIBLE.
Put it simply, according to this system there is no way that a single person could make an unlimited number of discoveries that big.
It would be like.. I don't know, a researcher in the past discovering how to make vaccines AND antibiotics AND heart surgery, all by himself.
One is possible (someone has to be the first after all), Two is unlikely but there are a rare few who might have the talent, drive AND luck to achieve that (legendary figures, like, say, Einstein). 3 is basically impossible. It has to be someone new.
I mean, in this quest a possible example would be for Kakara to discover how to make perfect multiforms, THEN how to make tens of copies instead of just 4 (While STILL not losing power), and THEN how to fuse them back together to multiply her power.
Too many discoveries believed to be impossible for one single character to sort-of-realistically achieve.
Also game balance. Nothing stops us from learning the discoveries of other people, but we can't do everything by ourselves.
yeah, that.
Jaffur really made only ONE revolutionary discovery (that we know of): ki refining.
He made his own techniques, but while those are different from the known ones, they're not revolutionary.
at the end of the days they're still beams, not that different from the known ones.
You seem defensive, and I'm really not trying to attack you or your decisions. I just want to get to know your design better, because it's interesting and will help me play the way you want the game to be played.
Please believe me.
- Location
- Not here. Maybe on SB.
Hm?.. Oh, find it.
The expression, rather than the misery itself, seemed funny to me. I don't know, if you will feel better with that.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
The design principle at play is, "Some of these talents are wildly broken and they need to be balanced."