Dragon Ball: After the End
- Location
- Under a Rock
Take care of yourself. We can be patient.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Yikes, wind down and get safely situated first.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Increasingly, I'm not.
nkd1325
KNIGHT OF ORANGE
- Location
- AT HIS MAJESTY'S SIDE
Take as much a break from quest making as you need. Real life takes priority. Also the only thing worse than malice is incompetence when it comes to employers. I really hope they get better at this soon if only for the sake of you and their other employees.
HoratioVonBecker
Imperfectly Aligned
So this week I reread the Android/Cell Saga. Things that seemed actionably relevant to this thread:
-#18 definitely makes the first move on Kuririn, without any sort of expectation or consent on his part. (It's a kiss to the cheek.) She gets a lot more flustered later, when he reciprocates; she probably has a thing for being the strongest person in the room. (Aside from her brother, anyway - he was apparently made even stronger.)
-According to the translation I had, #17 and #18 had too much of their "programming" dedicated to the Infinite Energy Reactors. Also, Gero didn't turn himself into an IER model, although that could just be the editor-induced villain-switching. (In-universe, perhaps he didn't trust #19 with that?) This suggests that Tinkering actually has quite a bit to do with spiritual stuff.
-The Androids' upgrades were almost entirely "bio-organic", but their energy was still undetectable. It was kind of implied that their only cybernetics were their killswitches. (Which Kuririn didn't think to wish away instead of their bombs. Oops.)
-Goku only seems to put his fingers to his head for teleporting when he's looking for something. He teleports without them quite a lot.
-Also, he a decent shot at sensing other star systems at only FPSS strength, and without expressing his full strength, because the tower wasn't shaking.
-Power levels don't seem to do anything to improve strength, but strength does do a lot to improve power level. Likewise, speed seems to be more of a skill/body thing than a power thing. They just scale to low-middle martial arts movie caps.
--To clarify, it doesn't change apparent force-of-impact, but it does affect how much you can hurt someone with a punch/knee/elbow/whatever. Presumably, melee is actually mostly useful due to invisible ki attacks.
--This is borne out by Vegeta's inability to lift the eight-ton metal man in the first interuniverse tournament.
--It also explains why tournaments are still an actual spectator sport.
--Oddly, this means that Superman actually has a chance of winning in a crossover duel.
--Also relevant: the thing @Lailoken mentioned about how weirdly effective temperature-differentials are against ki-users. When they're flying to look for Gero's lab, Kuririn wants to buy a coat.
--#17 and Cell's forcefields shut down all attacks they're subjected to, which might not just be based on powerlevel.
-Adapting to Super Saiyan as the basic state was chosen both for speed and because "the other forms take too much energy".
--This suggests that stamina is also distinct from power level.
--Endurance-training the other forms seems quite plausible, and might bring benefits. (Maybe to non-PL stamina?)
--We should figure out how to grapple people and then switch to hypermuscular form to punch/choke them out.
-Cell's favorite technique is the Kamehameha. Its' best technique is Solar Flare.
--Devise a Solar Flare hack that can be emitted from any part of the body, and perhaps left on constantly?
--Devise a counterstrategy that amounts to "flood battlefield with smoke, learn to fight by energy signature"?
--Devise a counter-counter strategy that amounts to "a boatload of illusory clones made of ki"?
--Seriously, sensory warfare is something that should be on our itinerary.
-Telepathy doesn't seem to show up, and Telekinesis seems to be a Cell-only thing (so probably inherited from Freeza). I think the former is more a late Boo Saga thing, but the latter might actually be a racial/mutant ability. Which I think psionics count as?
-#18 definitely makes the first move on Kuririn, without any sort of expectation or consent on his part. (It's a kiss to the cheek.) She gets a lot more flustered later, when he reciprocates; she probably has a thing for being the strongest person in the room. (Aside from her brother, anyway - he was apparently made even stronger.)
-According to the translation I had, #17 and #18 had too much of their "programming" dedicated to the Infinite Energy Reactors. Also, Gero didn't turn himself into an IER model, although that could just be the editor-induced villain-switching. (In-universe, perhaps he didn't trust #19 with that?) This suggests that Tinkering actually has quite a bit to do with spiritual stuff.
-The Androids' upgrades were almost entirely "bio-organic", but their energy was still undetectable. It was kind of implied that their only cybernetics were their killswitches. (Which Kuririn didn't think to wish away instead of their bombs. Oops.)
-Goku only seems to put his fingers to his head for teleporting when he's looking for something. He teleports without them quite a lot.
-Also, he a decent shot at sensing other star systems at only FPSS strength, and without expressing his full strength, because the tower wasn't shaking.
-Power levels don't seem to do anything to improve strength, but strength does do a lot to improve power level. Likewise, speed seems to be more of a skill/body thing than a power thing. They just scale to low-middle martial arts movie caps.
--To clarify, it doesn't change apparent force-of-impact, but it does affect how much you can hurt someone with a punch/knee/elbow/whatever. Presumably, melee is actually mostly useful due to invisible ki attacks.
--This is borne out by Vegeta's inability to lift the eight-ton metal man in the first interuniverse tournament.
--It also explains why tournaments are still an actual spectator sport.
--Oddly, this means that Superman actually has a chance of winning in a crossover duel.
--Also relevant: the thing @Lailoken mentioned about how weirdly effective temperature-differentials are against ki-users. When they're flying to look for Gero's lab, Kuririn wants to buy a coat.
--#17 and Cell's forcefields shut down all attacks they're subjected to, which might not just be based on powerlevel.
-Adapting to Super Saiyan as the basic state was chosen both for speed and because "the other forms take too much energy".
--This suggests that stamina is also distinct from power level.
--Endurance-training the other forms seems quite plausible, and might bring benefits. (Maybe to non-PL stamina?)
--We should figure out how to grapple people and then switch to hypermuscular form to punch/choke them out.
-Cell's favorite technique is the Kamehameha. Its' best technique is Solar Flare.
--Devise a Solar Flare hack that can be emitted from any part of the body, and perhaps left on constantly?
--Devise a counterstrategy that amounts to "flood battlefield with smoke, learn to fight by energy signature"?
--Devise a counter-counter strategy that amounts to "a boatload of illusory clones made of ki"?
--Seriously, sensory warfare is something that should be on our itinerary.
-Telepathy doesn't seem to show up, and Telekinesis seems to be a Cell-only thing (so probably inherited from Freeza). I think the former is more a late Boo Saga thing, but the latter might actually be a racial/mutant ability. Which I think psionics count as?
-I'd misremembered Gero and #19's powers; they can only drain you by touching you or your energy attacks. Energy attacks were surprisingly uncommon, and that really only changed at the end of the Cell Game.
-Cell seemed less obnoxious and less scary than when I was a kid, probably in part because I'd already been refreshed on how they beat him, and in part because I've read the Boo Saga. Also maybe because I knew the molted shell wouldn't come back to life and kill people.
-Kuririn never uses the Kienzan once, but he does punch fairly often. Cell is so durable that it doesn't actually help, but he does try it.
-Trunks and Kuririn kill Baby Cell and the computer without even trying to reprogram them. *squinting*
-The Androids don't display any energy blasts whatsoever until the Trunks sidestory - closest we get is #17's forcefield. Methinks their powers were reenvisioned partway through.
-Dende could make new Dragon Balls in 100 days. (This might conceivably have still required Shenron.)
-Cell says nothing about #16 being soulless and there isn't any obvious opportunity for him to do so, suggesting that particular bit of vitalist garbage to be an anime addition.
-If Goku had been slightly faster on the uptake, he could have teleported Cell to Kaio-sama's world, gotten Kaio-sama and Bubbles out, and skipped the whole death thing.
-Cell's core being in his head is pretty strange given that he lost his body from the ribcage up to Goku's kamehameha. Perhaps it wasn't his only core?
-Cell's final beam struggle seems to have been something of a willpower test, and he definitely uses both hands from the beginning. Vegeta distracting him by shooting him in the head was a beautiful detail.
-Goku's death lasted a lot longer than I remembered, but he made a fair go of "please don't trouble yourselves too much trying to revive me, I'll be okay". Also, he makes the entirely reasonable point that he's a monster magnet (and therefore, that this may be the best way for him to give Gohan the peaceful life Gohan and Chichi seem to want). I still think he should've talked to Chichi, but I can see his logic.
-I think the timelines work out as follows:
T1: Heart Plague kills Goku, Bulma builds time machine, Trunks writes 'HOPE' on the side. Three years after initial trip is supposed to happen, Cell kills Trunks and steals it, then uses the initial trip's coordinates because they were what was preprogrammed. (I think this is the main plot hole, and could probably be fixed by Cell choosing the earliest coordinates he knows are valid.)
T2: Trunks returns (probably twice), the Androids are beaten (probably by Reunited Piccolo), no-one ever figures out that Super Saiyan is improvable. Trunks or someone coming back with him kills the T1 androids. T1 Cell kills Trunks and ganks the T1 time machine, then goes back to Trunks' initial return time in a marginally different location, thereby creating T3. T2 Cell is never shown, but given that T2's Z Fighters had to deal with Boo first, they might be fine. Also it doesn't have androids to absorb.
T3: Canon. Goku gets his medicine, Trunks returns twice, Cell exists. Because Trunks knows about Cell before he tries returning to T1 this time, he creates T1B, forking the timeline with what would normally be a forward trip.
T1B: Hope to the Future. T3 Future Trunks kills the androids, and then three years later, Cell.
Result: T1 may have a rampant Boo, unless Beerus actually woke up and dealt with him. T2 has probably a full compliment of Z fighters, but probably only improved on Super Saiyan if Vegeta figured it out to fight Goku (or vice versa). They also have an android-less, timetravel-less Cell coming in 21 years, and may or may not be able to deal with Babidi before that. (...And T1B is wrecked again by Zamas, thus ignoring the looser threads in favor of stomping on Trunks' hopeful ending. This has rekindled my dislike for Super.)
-Cell seemed less obnoxious and less scary than when I was a kid, probably in part because I'd already been refreshed on how they beat him, and in part because I've read the Boo Saga. Also maybe because I knew the molted shell wouldn't come back to life and kill people.
-Kuririn never uses the Kienzan once, but he does punch fairly often. Cell is so durable that it doesn't actually help, but he does try it.
-Trunks and Kuririn kill Baby Cell and the computer without even trying to reprogram them. *squinting*
-The Androids don't display any energy blasts whatsoever until the Trunks sidestory - closest we get is #17's forcefield. Methinks their powers were reenvisioned partway through.
-Dende could make new Dragon Balls in 100 days. (This might conceivably have still required Shenron.)
-Cell says nothing about #16 being soulless and there isn't any obvious opportunity for him to do so, suggesting that particular bit of vitalist garbage to be an anime addition.
-If Goku had been slightly faster on the uptake, he could have teleported Cell to Kaio-sama's world, gotten Kaio-sama and Bubbles out, and skipped the whole death thing.
-Cell's core being in his head is pretty strange given that he lost his body from the ribcage up to Goku's kamehameha. Perhaps it wasn't his only core?
-Cell's final beam struggle seems to have been something of a willpower test, and he definitely uses both hands from the beginning. Vegeta distracting him by shooting him in the head was a beautiful detail.
-Goku's death lasted a lot longer than I remembered, but he made a fair go of "please don't trouble yourselves too much trying to revive me, I'll be okay". Also, he makes the entirely reasonable point that he's a monster magnet (and therefore, that this may be the best way for him to give Gohan the peaceful life Gohan and Chichi seem to want). I still think he should've talked to Chichi, but I can see his logic.
-I think the timelines work out as follows:
T1: Heart Plague kills Goku, Bulma builds time machine, Trunks writes 'HOPE' on the side. Three years after initial trip is supposed to happen, Cell kills Trunks and steals it, then uses the initial trip's coordinates because they were what was preprogrammed. (I think this is the main plot hole, and could probably be fixed by Cell choosing the earliest coordinates he knows are valid.)
T2: Trunks returns (probably twice), the Androids are beaten (probably by Reunited Piccolo), no-one ever figures out that Super Saiyan is improvable. Trunks or someone coming back with him kills the T1 androids. T1 Cell kills Trunks and ganks the T1 time machine, then goes back to Trunks' initial return time in a marginally different location, thereby creating T3. T2 Cell is never shown, but given that T2's Z Fighters had to deal with Boo first, they might be fine. Also it doesn't have androids to absorb.
T3: Canon. Goku gets his medicine, Trunks returns twice, Cell exists. Because Trunks knows about Cell before he tries returning to T1 this time, he creates T1B, forking the timeline with what would normally be a forward trip.
T1B: Hope to the Future. T3 Future Trunks kills the androids, and then three years later, Cell.
Result: T1 may have a rampant Boo, unless Beerus actually woke up and dealt with him. T2 has probably a full compliment of Z fighters, but probably only improved on Super Saiyan if Vegeta figured it out to fight Goku (or vice versa). They also have an android-less, timetravel-less Cell coming in 21 years, and may or may not be able to deal with Babidi before that. (...And T1B is wrecked again by Zamas, thus ignoring the looser threads in favor of stomping on Trunks' hopeful ending. This has rekindled my dislike for Super.)
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- Pronouns
- She/Her
Telepathy and Telekinesis both show up, in the anime at least, in the Sayian and Namek Sagas. Telekinesis also shows up through out Dragon Ball (pre-Z).
Great Greedy Guts
Ceterum censeo Vigilam esse delendam.
Telepathy also shows up during Dragon Ball itself. Lotsa mind reading going on there with Roshi in particular.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Telepathy is all over the 22nd Budokai.
- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
Yeah, I remember that.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Before I forget, wishing you well on holidays @PoptartProdigy! I hope you get your work situation sorted and can properly relax!
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I am waiting one (1) metric subjective eternity for the prospective job to call me back and tell me that I'm coming in for the second interview I know they're holding and want me at.
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I'm living that right now too. Hugs.
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Alright... at the risk of getting in trouble for necroing, I just had a brain blast while thinking about this story and I am unreasonably excited about it.
We are all planning on visiting Heaven eventually and we know we can meet ancestors who are from Garenhuld.
This means Kakara can learn about Gine Goku and Torruffal Vegeta's Forbidden LoveTM directly from the source!!!
We must spend as many actions as necessary to get the whole story once we get there. I will accept nothing less. 😠
P.S.
I finally got a real job! 😁 Already verbally accepted, now I am just waiting for the formal email.
I hope whatever luck I have leftover rubs off on you @PoptartProdigy 😉 Good luck!
We are all planning on visiting Heaven eventually and we know we can meet ancestors who are from Garenhuld.
This means Kakara can learn about Gine Goku and Torruffal Vegeta's Forbidden LoveTM directly from the source!!!
We must spend as many actions as necessary to get the whole story once we get there. I will accept nothing less. 😠
P.S.
I finally got a real job! 😁 Already verbally accepted, now I am just waiting for the formal email.
I hope whatever luck I have leftover rubs off on you @PoptartProdigy 😉 Good luck!
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Thread necromancy is not infractable on SV, so necro freely!
And here's hoping! I have a line on a good job; here's hoping it pans out!- Location
- United States
I was kinda worried about necroing when I thought of this, but yay apparently I can share my random brain blasts too.
We know Spirit Saiyan can be used to supercharge spells from our experience with Dazarel. Once we get back to Garenhuld and have nothing more pressing on our plate, we could Spirit Saiyan up and donate the ki to make stronger wards. Then, probably cooperating with Jaffur so we have the authority, we'd be safe to pursue higher transformations personally, and we could then let everyone else go for regular Super Saiyan. After that, we might be able to get another round of ward-buffing with the increased strength of the Saiyan population, though it'd probably cap around there since even if the wards are strong enough, I doubt most people would be going beyond Super Saiyan.
We know Spirit Saiyan can be used to supercharge spells from our experience with Dazarel. Once we get back to Garenhuld and have nothing more pressing on our plate, we could Spirit Saiyan up and donate the ki to make stronger wards. Then, probably cooperating with Jaffur so we have the authority, we'd be safe to pursue higher transformations personally, and we could then let everyone else go for regular Super Saiyan. After that, we might be able to get another round of ward-buffing with the increased strength of the Saiyan population, though it'd probably cap around there since even if the wards are strong enough, I doubt most people would be going beyond Super Saiyan.
HoratioVonBecker
Imperfectly Aligned
It'd be better to go for Katchin or maybe enchanting stealth alloy. Apparently the existing wards are hitting hard limits on how much they can sustain - given that they're based off of Sealing, it seems likely that if we give them any more they'll start sealing themselves. We really need to get them some wider-galaxy magic theory; I strongly suspect the solution is to work in other concepts like Stability or Transformation or something, so that it can use that extra power without collapsing into a magical event horizon.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
We talked about this idea. The problem is that the limit on the power level our wards can conceal isn't really a function of how much ki energy can be pumped into them. It's a function of how well we can craft spells. It won't necessarily supercharge as gracefully as the seal on Dazarel did.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Simon is correct. The wards architecture is pretty much at its limit (which is slightly weaker than a full-power golden oozaru). Stuff like Dazarel's seal can supercharge, but the wards are wide area, self-maintaining, overchargeable over the very short term, etc. Lots of complicating factors that take fiddly bits, which supercharging can basically crush/short out.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I had an interview today.
And was hired on the spot.
The job search is done! I have saner employment! RAISE THE FUCKING ROOF, FOLKS, BECAUSE MY LIFE JUST GOT WAY BETTER!
Looking forward to see you all again, real soon-
-next time-
-on Dragon Ball: After the End!
And was hired on the spot.
The job search is done! I have saner employment! RAISE THE FUCKING ROOF, FOLKS, BECAUSE MY LIFE JUST GOT WAY BETTER!
Looking forward to see you all again, real soon-
-next time-
-on Dragon Ball: After the End!
Last time on Dragon Ball: After the End...
Driven to the edge of burnout by a 90-hour work week, PoptartProdigy made themselves set aside their quests, leaving the player base abandoned to the grim specter of boredom while Poptart departed in search of new opportunities. After pulling themselves together and returning to Victoria Falls on a limited basis, Poptart left one last time in search of the legendary Good Job. Now they have returned, successful, and the saga at last continues!
Driven to the edge of burnout by a 90-hour work week, PoptartProdigy made themselves set aside their quests, leaving the player base abandoned to the grim specter of boredom while Poptart departed in search of new opportunities. After pulling themselves together and returning to Victoria Falls on a limited basis, Poptart left one last time in search of the legendary Good Job. Now they have returned, successful, and the saga at last continues!