Voting is open
@PoptartProdigy

Is the crowd upset because Clan Vegeta's more used to strong rulers and that's affecting the whole of Saiyan society?

What's all this about "colourless" people? Does that refer to the lack of blue hair or are you saying the entire planet is white people?

They are generally upset at the situation in general -- although naturally the Vegetans are more so because they're getting hit on the religious and secular fronts -- and are aiming it at a few individuals in particular.

"Colorless" isn't literal. But these are people with no understanding of ki, who were medieval peasants before the saiyans showed up, who don't have a damn Guardian, who don't have animal people, who don't have any of the Weird that nearly infested Earth, who don't know magic, who don't even know that they aren't on their race's home world right now and couldn't care less about finding out, who don't know or care that there's anything out in space, who don't even have the grace and decency to have spiky hair like some humans do...they come in all skin tones and hair colors, but to the eyes of a saiyan who never interacts with them unless they have to and was raised with stories of an Earth covered in strange and mystical creatures, the humans of Garenhuld are just lifeless. Barren. Divorced of the mystical hyper-reality that the average saiyan's life is, in comparison to a Garenhulder's. Imagine you're a typical saiyan of exactly 1.5 million power units. You move with the long practice driven into every saiyan that by moving too fast, you could break the planet. Your ears pick up noises kilometers away without thinking about it. Your eyes see with a crisp detail that professional cinematographers would weep to possess. You can track a bug as it flies around you by the shifting of the air molecules around you.

And then your Lord stuffs you into a Masque and tells you you'll get in trouble if your power level goes above five. You go from a glorious, nearly god-like hyper-reality to utter mundanity with nothing to recommend it. Colorless. After all, what is simple red compared to the glorious shades that appear to somebody of your full strength?

..Standard procedure?

Marry in the human parent (obviously, they take the saiyan's Clan name, and get no choice in the matter, although it's usually presented more appealingly than that) and handle child-rearing as is typical for a Garenhuld saiyan marriage. And make sure that the saiyan parent treads lightly around their Lord for the rest of their life for fear of the chewing-out they got, and that everybody knows they're an impulsive idiot who shouldn't be trusted to handle things themself.
 
Last edited:
Man, if that's how people of 1.5 million PL live, the world as a FPSSJ must be even more profound and the barren emptiness of the Masque that much worse...
 
Last edited:
Man, if that's how people of 1.5 million PL live, the world as a FPSSJ, must be even m ore profound and the barren emptiness of the Masque that much worse...

I'm honestly surprised that Gohan hasn't been telling the seers to kick their societies ass over the whole masque thing really.
 
They are generally upset at the situation in general -- although naturally the Vegetans are more so because they're getting hit on the religious and secular fronts -- and are aiming it at a few individuals in particular.
-[X] Adress the problem: half of our society is used to autority figures mediating more closely in their affairs and the resulting unrest is affecting the whole. It is your duty to take a more active role in your society to help with this and the cult is an important part of it.
@Bakkasama, the problem isn't Clan Vegeta's tradition of a ruler and the negative effects it has on Saiyan society, it's the Sealing and the Lords' inability/unwillingness to fix it. Your plan addresses the wrong thing.

Your ears pick up noises kilometers away without thinking about it.
How come only Piccolo heard when Future Trunks first arrived and told Goku about stuff? Why did Frieza fail to hit Goku with his eye beams when his sight was blocked by the smoke/water (can't remember which it was)?
 
Last edited:
I'm honestly surprised that Gohan hasn't been telling the seers to kick their societies ass over the whole masque thing really.
Okay, so while the Masque isn't the most perfect thing ever, it's pretty clearly been necessary to keep things in check.
Outside of the Sealing, Masques are pretty clearly not enslaving or anything; they're part of the structure that keeps the Exiles from getting noticed, because in this Universe, Getting Noticed = DEATH.

Got to ask, why are they so anti-innovation and anti-curiosity? How did such a world-wide trait develop?
Sounds like some bad history with poking the unknown.
What veekie said.
And/or some kind of chance encounter with something/someone from "out there" that left them scarred.
 
Bakkasama, the problem isn't Clan Vegeta's tradition of a ruler and the negative effects it has on Saiyan society, it's the Sealing and the Lords' inability/unwillingness to fix it. Your plan addresses the wrong thing.

Perhaps it was worded wrongly but I meant the bolded part. When they have a shitty situation, it is the job of the Lords of both clans to fix it. From the common saiyan's point of view, there is no action being taken and feel their lords have abandoned them in the current crisis. Yes, the problema is the Sealing but it is also the lack of leadership for them to rally behind that was caused by it. Sincé we can't just say "worry not champs, I've got this. The sealing will be undone" without causing more trouble for openly defying Berra, we are adressing the other side of the issue.
 
How come only Piccolo heard when Future Trunks first arrived and told Goku about stuff? Why did Frieza fail to hit Goku with his eye beams when his sight was blocked by the smoke/water (can't remember which it was)?

Frieza couldn't hit Goku because he wasn't used to aiming by sound.

I'm willing to guess that one effect of having potent ki is to suppress the ability of other people to use their ki-enhanced hearing to spy on your conversations (not so much a technique as an automatic effect, similar to how ki blasts are kept from harming you), and only Piccolo was both strong enough and nosy enough to listen in. Namekians may also have an advantage at overcoming ki-based sound baffling.
 
I'm willing to guess that one effect of having potent ki is to suppress the ability of other people to use their ki-enhanced hearing to spy on your conversations (not so much a technique as an automatic effect, similar to how ki blasts are kept from harming you), and only Piccolo was both strong enough and nosy enough to listen in. Namekians may also have an advantage at overcoming ki-based sound baffling.
Maybe he just had big ears?:confused:

I don't know where the idea came from that ki turns you into a Kryptonian. A ki-user is human, except when they're not. Vegeta was having problem with breathing and heat just like a normal person might and that was at the power of a god.
 
Maybe he just had big ears?:confused:

I don't know where the idea came from that ki turns you into a Kryptonian. A ki-user is human, except when they're not. Vegeta was having problem with breathing and heat just like a normal person might and that was at the power of a god.
I think they might be using a technique to enhance their senses.
 
I don't know where the idea came from that ki turns you into a Kryptonian.

Having exceptionally strong ki (such as 500,000+, which is just obscenely strong even on the galactic scale - this is ~4 times stronger than Captain Ginyu was when he first fought Goku, and ~2.75 times stronger than Goku was in that battle) gives you exceptional abilities.

Fighters at this level are able to perceive other fighters who are moving at full speed (up to 2x their PL). This requires them to have enhanced vision and hearing, otherwise they simply wouldn't be able to do so.

From this, we can discern that strong ki = enhanced senses, though it is certainly possible that you have to focus to use them. Please also note that there was never a claim that ki users were Kryptonian, your points about heat and the need to breathe are strawmen: no one is arguing otherwise.

Also, the QM said so.

I think they might be using a technique to enhance their senses.

I don't think it's really a technique, per se. I think it's just a 'natural' use of ki. If it were a formal technique, people who have to be trained in it (and it would appear on our character sheet).
 
Last edited:
Having exceptionally strong ki (such as 500,000+, which is just obscenely strong even on the galactic scale - this is ~4 times stronger than Captain Ginyu was when he first fought Goku, and ~2.75 times stronger than Goku was in that battle) gives you exceptional abilities.

Fighters at this level are able to perceive other fighters who are moving at full speed (up to 2x their PL). This requires them to have enhanced vision and hearing, otherwise they simply wouldn't be able to do so.

From this, we can discern that strong ki = enhanced senses, though it is certainly possible that you have to focus to use them. Please also note that there was never a claim that ki users were Kryptonian, your points about heat and the need to breathe are strawmen: no one is arguing otherwise.

Also, the QM said so.



I don't think it's really a technique, per se. I think it's just a 'natural' use of ki. If it were a formal technique, people who have to be trained in it (and it would appear on our character sheet).
Actually, the Z Fighters seem to have used their Ki Sense to keep track.

That's not to say that method was universal, or that the Garenhuld Saiyans haven't learned new methods to do so since those days.
 
Actually, the Z Fighters seem to have used their Ki Sense to keep track.

Yeah, but we see that they are also using their eyes. When Gohan is suprised to see people 'disappear' in his early fights, you can clearly see the other fighters are tracking with their eyes. As he focuses, he begins to see motion and colors.

While they're using ki sense, it seems to be enhancing their physical senses, not just giving them some esoteric sixth sense.
 
Yeah, but people outside earth who can't sense ki were 'seeing' people move. It's most likely all ki spence, just unconsciously used but there is some truth that power lets you 'see faster', since raised power levels not only make you faster but you can track faster people.
 
..Well, right, voting.

[X] Watch and wait.

Can't really think of a vote right now, but I still don't want Plan Demigoddess to succeed, as I really don't want Kakara to have to pretend to be religious.
 
Got to ask, why are they so anti-innovation and anti-curiosity? How did such a world-wide trait develop?

Saiyan anthropologists suspect that it's a matter of a traumatic encounter with something long ago back in prehistory.

Interestingly enough, what rare books of speculative fiction are published by Garenhulders are often criticized with, "Got to ask, why are they so pro-innovation and pro-curiosity? How did such a world-wide trait develop?"

In short, something happened to privilege a lack of curiosity just as powerfully as a drive to curiosity has been privileged for earth humans.

@Bakkasama, the problem isn't Clan Vegeta's tradition of a ruler and the negative effects it has on Saiyan society, it's the Sealing and the Lords' inability/unwillingness to fix it. Your plan addresses the wrong thing.


How come only Piccolo heard when Future Trunks first arrived and told Goku about stuff? Why did Frieza fail to hit Goku with his eye beams when his sight was blocked by the smoke/water (can't remember which it was)?

You can hear things kilometers away, but that doesn't mean you have the granularity to pick up words. You still need to focus for that, but you're sensitive enough that you can tell something is happening. Namekians have a predisposition towards incredible senses anyway, but others need to use their ki to get more.

Freeza failed to hit Goku because Freeza was a training-shy idiot and there's no magic solution for poor marksmanship.
 
Saiyan anthropologists suspect that it's a matter of a traumatic encounter with something long ago back in prehistory.

Interestingly enough, what rare books of speculative fiction are published by Garenhulders are often criticized with, "Got to ask, why are they so pro-innovation and pro-curiosity? How did such a world-wide trait develop?"

In short, something happened to privilege a lack of curiosity just as powerfully as a drive to curiosity has been privileged for earth humans.
....Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Surely that won't come back to bite us in the ass at the least convenient time! /sarcasm :p:p

You can hear things kilometers away, but that doesn't mean you have the granularity to pick up words. You still need to focus for that, but you're sensitive enough that you can tell something is happening. Namekians have a predisposition towards incredible senses anyway, but others need to use their ki to get more.

Freeza failed to hit Goku because Freeza was a training-shy idiot and there's no magic solution for poor marksmanship.
"Are these inverted controls?"
 
Where in the plan does it say to do that?
..The Ancestor Cultists want a religious authority, Kakara being a demigoddess won't be enough, as, again, the Gokun members of the Faith are not satisfied with the demigod Berra. If Kakara's not planning on mediating in some sort of religious way, how will she be different from Berra?

Like, @Bakkasama, what exactly do you mean when Kakara will offer to mediate until the current crisis is over? Do you want her to mediate every single dispute related to the Faith? Because I think neither Apra, Berra, Dandeer or any of the Priests are going to like that at all, not to mention it'd take a lot of time.
 
Last edited:
..The Ancestor Cultists want a religious authority, Kakara being a demigoddess won't be enough, as, again, the Gokun members of the Faith are not satisfied with the demigod Berra. If Kakara's not planning on mediating in some sort of religious way, how will she be different from Berra?

Like, @Bakkasama, what exactly do you mean when Kakara will offer to mediate until the current crisis is over? Do you want her to mediate every single dispute related to the Faith? Because I think neither Apra, Berra, Dandeer or any of the Priests are going to like that at all, not to mention it'd take a lot of time.

The Ancestor Faith/Cult doesn't see all SSJ as demigod(esse)s. Kakara is seen as one because she is The Gold, and The Mighty. She has ascended in the heat of combat and touched divinity in ways none other have.

'Normal' Scions, Lords, and retired Lords are seen more like Saints.

Kakara has a religiously-based legitimacy which Berra lacks. She can exercise it here, and people will listen. They may not agree, but they will listen.
 
..The Ancestor Cultists want a religious authority, Kakara being a demigoddess won't be enough, as, again, the Gokun members of the Faith are not satisfied with the demigod Berra. If Kakara's not planning on mediating in some sort of religious way, how will she be different from Berra?

Like, @Bakkasama, what exactly do you mean when Kakara will offer to mediate until the current crisis is over? Do you want her to mediate every single dispute related to the Faith? Because I think neither Apra, Berra, Dandeer or any of the Priests are going to like that at all, not to mention it'd take a lot of time.

I don't see it quite that way. They wantsomeone to take charge in general, not a religious leader specifically. This argument took the shape it did because the discusion of the regency and sealing, which is what they wanted to talk about, was shut down under the excuse they had no authority to do so and THEN someonepointed out that the lack of a leader in this context caused them to descend into chaos.

While we don't want to discuss the sealing, taking the mediator position here will allow us to calm them down since, while we don't have the autority to countermand Berra, this at least gives them a chance to present their opinion to someone who can bring it to him. It also gives them someone to decide when someone is out of place in the discussion and make sure it happens in an orderly manner and to put the foot down as to where a matter of the faith ends and of state begins; example: they can decide that what Dandeer did is heresy and that she is no longer welcome in the cult as well as shunn her from its functions but they can't punish her as we would a crime.
 
Got to ask, why are they so anti-innovation and anti-curiosity? How did such a world-wide trait develop?

It may have something to do with even the very office of guardian being extinct and entire galactic region being double-landlocked by dead, barren systems.

Precipitating catastrophe while trying to avoid another by accidentally making the very worst possible choice and awakening an eldritch horror is kind of a theme.
 
Voting is open
Back
Top