Voting is open
[X] Time to stress-test your new sight abilities: see how many visions in a row you can handle, and how long do you need before you can have more, starting with the one regarding Guru
-[X] Take a break when it's time for the debriefing.
 
I guess that makes sense. Still, it seems like an argument from a fanfic I read. Qi isn't the strongest, just the simplest. That is, even a complete idiot can use Qi effectively, and being/fighting smarter than your opponent isn't always going to help you if they're getting a +100 to their combat rolls. The main disadvantage it has it that it doesn't do any one thing very well, it's just okay at everything, which means you have to train like hell if you want to do something you haven't already got the basics down for, and you don't always have the time for that. Magic and Sight have weaknesses of their own, sure, mostly in the form of how much longer doing anything impressive takes with them, but it's hard to see how they aren't better when the first lets you mind control people if they let their guard down for a split second even if they have a 10 million PL advantage on you, and the second let's you see the future, as in, that's the most common ability for people with Sight, at least among Garenhulder Seers.

I mean, how much time did Dandeer actually need for her 'literally everyone is my slave now' ritual? Sure, it was (supposedly, we really only have Dandelor's word on that) a decade in the making, but she wasn't exactly without duties, and the Spirit Bomb is the closest equivalent Qi users have to that sort of thing so I'd take our estimate of the difficulty of magic rituals and ratchet them down a notch. As in, prepping something with your powers ahead of time. Even Sight isn't really something you can just store away like magic can. There's no indication Dandeer was at all weakened by the whole 'holding an almost complete ritual of planetary scale in reserve' so the main reason we weren't totally screwed is that she didn't devote her time to rituals specifically to mind control all the nobles, instead of half of them.

When we get back, we should break Dandeer's hands and then let them heal wrong. If she can't do hand gestures, her magic is crippled. That way, we can avoid anyone trying to kill her since her magic is already badly weakened, and have her magical expertise on demand. So long as we make it abundantly clear this is the only way she doesn't wind up dead, since she basically launched a coup on the rightful rulers and enslaved her entire race, she's unlikely to cause trouble. Magic? Just addressed that. Political maneuvering? No one's ever going to fully trust her with a butter knife again, never mind political power or their loyalty. Might cause some issues with the sorcerers though, since it probably looks like a toothless lion to them.
I mean, five minutes can also let someone beat someone 3-4 times stronger than them at ki, even without the spirit bomb. See Makankosappo, or Final Flash, or IT Kamehameha.

And as for ruling the planet? We could do that with ki; hell, the royals were literally ruling the planet by virtue of their ki abilities.
 
[X] Time to stress-test your new sight abilities: see how many visions in a row you can handle, and how long do you need before you can have more, starting with the one regarding Guru
-[X] Take a break when it's time for the debriefing.
Adhoc vote count started by nkd1325 on Oct 25, 2018 at 10:00 AM, finished with 37 posts and 24 votes.
 
I mean, five minutes can also let someone beat someone 3-4 times stronger than them at ki, even without the spirit bomb. See Makankosappo, or Final Flash, or IT Kamehameha.

And as for ruling the planet? We could do that with ki; hell, the royals were literally ruling the planet by virtue of their ki abilities.

Point taken on the first thing, though charging Qi stuff tends to be really obvious.

For the second thing, if Dandeer had gotten the ritual off properly there'd be no dissidents because no one would be able to dissent. Whereas Berra had to do a bunch of politicking to get his full authority back. We didn't really see it since almost everyone besides Dandeer who we frequently interacted with was either family of some kind, or didn't actually know about the Saiyans, and the few times we interacted with people in truly public settings was usually in the wake of some kind of achievement, like GO or the Spirit Bomb, but there's plenty of dissent even with the Saiyan tendency to defer to the strongest.
 
Point taken on the first thing, though charging Qi stuff tends to be really obvious.
Sure, yeah. But 5 minutes to a PL 15,000,000 Saiyan is shorter than Dandeer's sentence (5 minutes=.4 dandeer seconds) , and special beam cannon doesn't even take that long these days.

To give a different tack: You can spend 10+ years of your time learning enough magic to fight someone at pl 15 million, or you could spend significantly less time than that reaching pl 15 million yourself. Sure, magic can in theory put you on the level of a 60 million fighter, or 70 million, or even more - but then you could spend a few years learning x5 Kaioken, and hit 75 naturally. And so on; the reason sorcerers are a threat to ki users here comes from a unique confluence of events, namely:
- We have several hard and soft caps on how strong someone can get
- We were up against the strongest sorcerer, possibly in the galaxy
- She had almost ideal positioning in terms of prep time, particularly since she's older than us.

If we had been up against, say, FPSSj Bulma Kane, she would have just dropped us, while we handily beat dandeer, and almost won the fight outright despite being unable to kill her and without using our strongest form and after she had tons of prep chances for things like wards and suborning our allies.
 
[X] Time to stress-test your new sight abilities: see how many visions in a row you can handle, and how long do you need before you can have more, starting with the one regarding Guru
-[X] Take a break when it's time for the debriefing.
 
Last edited:
Sure, yeah. But 5 minutes to a PL 15,000,000 Saiyan is shorter than Dandeer's sentence (5 minutes=.4 dandeer seconds) , and special beam cannon doesn't even take that long these days.

To give a different tack: You can spend 10+ years of your time learning enough magic to fight someone at pl 15 million, or you could spend significantly less time than that reaching pl 15 million yourself. Sure, magic can in theory put you on the level of a 60 million fighter, or 70 million, or even more - but then you could spend a few years learning x5 Kaioken, and hit 75 naturally. And so on; the reason sorcerers are a threat to ki users here comes from a unique confluence of events, namely:
- We have several hard and soft caps on how strong someone can get
- We were up against the strongest sorcerer, possibly in the galaxy
- She had almost ideal positioning in terms of prep time, particularly since she's older than us.

If we had been up against, say, FPSSj Bulma Kane, she would have just dropped us, while we handily beat dandeer, and almost won the fight outright despite being unable to kill her and without using our strongest form and after she had tons of prep chances for things like wards and suborning our allies.
Meanwhile, Dandeer quest is besieging my account with demands to rebalance to the combat system since it's so obviously broken in ki fighters' favor and their survival came down to how well Yammar did. :rofl::cry:
 
Speaking of Negaverse Quests. Anyone else want to see a Berra Negaverse set from the confrontation between him and Kakara? Like the questers going 'Oh god. We made our daughter go SSJ to fight US!' and then their reactions to Kakara being the one to initiate the reconciliation would be cool to see. I'd do it myself but I'm not confident of my grasp on his character.
 
[X] Take the vision (No check; next update contains a vision interlude before moving on with the day).

I don't love the idea of pushing our powers to the limit right before an important meeting. We might miss important checks if we're exhausted.
 
[x] Time to stress-test your new sight abilities: see how many visions in a row you can handle, and how long do you need before you can have more, starting with the one regarding Guru
-[X] Take a break when it's time for the debriefing.

Might as well test this now. Worth noting that we're not going to be expected to be doing anything at this meeting, & if we miss anything major, we can always ask Bassoon for a refresher later. This is just him providing a state-of-the-galaxy briefing; our meeting with Guru won't be for some time (I do think it's important to be rested & at our best for that one).
 
Hey, 'no dissent' isn't really accurate. 'No dissent that doesn't rapidly lead to the dissenter being Sealed into a frog' is entirely different.
Nah, not even that. There's a resistance hiding behind the Senzu wards now, but that's just because we got them back there. Hypothetically it's entirely possible for Dandeer to rule the whole civilisation with nothing but her magic. (Poorly.)
 
Speaking of Negaverse Quests. Anyone else want to see a Berra Negaverse set from the confrontation between him and Kakara? Like the questers going 'Oh god. We made our daughter go SSJ to fight US!' and then their reactions to Kakara being the one to initiate the reconciliation would be cool to see. I'd do it myself but I'm not confident of my grasp on his character.
Why do you write Ki with a Q?
 
I guess that makes sense. Still, it seems like an argument from a fanfic I read. Qi isn't the strongest, just the simplest. That is, even a complete idiot can use Qi effectively, and being/fighting smarter than your opponent isn't always going to help you if they're getting a +100 to their combat rolls. The main disadvantage it has it that it doesn't do any one thing very well, it's just okay at everything, which means you have to train like hell if you want to do something you haven't already got the basics down for, and you don't always have the time for that. Magic and Sight have weaknesses of their own, sure, mostly in the form of how much longer doing anything impressive takes with them, but it's hard to see how they aren't better when the first lets you mind control people if they let their guard down for a split second even if they have a 10 million PL advantage on you, and the second let's you see the future, as in, that's the most common ability for people with Sight, at least among Garenhulder Seers.

I mean, my eyes would be popping out of my skull from boggling if Ki, the power literally anyone can train up and use was better than rare powers you have to train up per se.

Like, Ki is plenty valid, but if it was just better than magic and sight there'd be no reason to be a mage or seer.
 
If we had been up against, say, FPSSj Bulma Kane, she would have just dropped us, while we handily beat dandeer, and almost won the fight outright despite being unable to kill her and without using our strongest form and after she had tons of prep chances for things like wards and suborning our allies.
This is an extremely important point.

If Kakara weren't Pacifist Saiyan, Dandeer would be dead. Because nothing would have saved her had we gotten our hands on her but once- and we got our hands on her twice.

This isn't me being salty about Kakara's pacifism. Because Dandeer dying wouldn't necessarily have been a better outcome; it could easily have caused some horrible outcome like I discussed last month. And because part of what I like about this quest is Kakara sticking to her guns, first on pacifism and subsequently on the Code of Batman. I don't always join quests to rack up utilons.

But basically, it's important to note that we had Dandeer entirely at our mercy at least twice during the boss battle, and on at least one earlier occasion when she tried to cast a spell on us and we could have easily killed her IF we were so inclined and willing to accept the consequences.

All we had to do was squeeze and Dandeer would have been on her way to the magnificent mahogany desk of Lord Yemma and an all-expenses paid trip to the Home for Infinite Losers. On multiple occasions.

Greatest magician in the galaxy, save probably for the Enemy, and yet she's only alive because a thirteen year old girl doesn't want her dead.

So much for magic being categorically stronger than ki, huh?

And we saw some major hints of major flaws with Magic with the arc end. 'But you didn't ask!', sure she has mind control but even with literal mind control attached people can still fuck her over if she makes wording mistakes. You can't counter a Kamehameha by noticing the other guy didn't say it just so.
Mitsuba Roma:

"Though it does change the flavor."

[looks around]

"What? I've been kamehameha'd, like, hundreds of times." [thinks] "Maybe a couple thousand, even. After a while you start to notice things."
 
Last edited:
That happens because being a seer or sorcerer is a matter of inborn aptitude, or lack thereof. There are actually fewer of them than there technically could be, thanks to cultural prejudices.
Man, I'm glad that Kakara is Kakara. If it had been anyone else, they might use Dandeer as an excuse to create a registry of such potentially subversive elements. Yammar almost certainly would have if it happened in his time, by my closest estimation of him.
 
Man, I'm glad that Kakara is Kakara. If it had been anyone else, they might use Dandeer as an excuse to create a registry of such potentially subversive elements. Yammar almost certainly would have if it happened in his time, by my closest estimation of him.
In fact, all seers and sorcerers are registered already.

The Exiles are lovely.
 
Active ones, or potential ones as well (the difference between how many there are and how many there could be, as noted above)?
All potentials, as soon as their potential becomes known, are supposed to make themselves known and listen to at least one pitch from a seer or sorcerer about why they should join up, which accounts for roughly half of all active recruitment. They do go on a list.
 
Voting is open
Back
Top