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Dragon Ball: After the End

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Andres110 said:
Eavesdropping on Dad and Dandeer required multiple rolls. Did the cookies only apply to one of them?
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It applied to your roll to suppress your energy, which you did so well that [REDACTED] [REDACTED] and thereby gave a bonus to all the checks thereafter.
Aranfan said:
@PoptartProdigy

So I just read up on the front page. What are some of the techniques we don't even know are lost? Gotenk's donuts and kamikaze ghosts I assume are among them, since there is no gotenks style to utilize them, but what else?
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Well, you don't know, obviously. :lol And that's all I have to say about that.
 
[] Plan Andres
-[] Go Super Saiyan
-[] Calmly explain to them how giving the right to modify a religion and decide what adheres or fails to adhere to adhere to it to someone - or multiple someones - is a bad idea. It never ends well, even if it seems like a good idea.
-[] Also inform them that giving someone authority similar to that of a Lord, of making them in charge of ruling Saiyans in place of the Lords isn't allowed.
-[] Thank High Priest Celeran for refusing power and adhering to law.

[] Plan Bakkasama
-[] Do not reveal Peat
 
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It hurts to imagine a nine-year-old girl demanding that everybody shut up and listen to her call them squabbling children before pontificating at length on theology, legality, and philosophy.

Goku and Vegeta, I hope that Grams has a plan that is going to kick in in time to render all of this irrelevant.
 
Lailoken said:
It hurts to imagine a nine-year-old girl demanding that everybody shut up and listen to her call them squabbling children before pontificating at length on theology, legality, and philosophy.
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Point. Removed the bit where we compare them to children. As for the rest, it's just saying that giving him power over a religion is a bad idea and that they're not allowed to give him power anyway.
 
I have no idea what to do here. Like at all.

I'm probably just going to throw everything on Grandma's shoulders and hope it works, because I don't see anything we do here as being a good idea.

That said, I find it extremely insulting that they invited a Scion for this. For all the awe the flock originally displayed, the majority turned around really quick to insult the system Kakara is an integral part of. Do they not realize how close to treason/heresy this is? How the Space Pope/House Peat set this up is just kind of incredible. Are they that sure that Lord Goku won't exterminate them? House Peat and Space Pope are practically baiting him at this point.
 
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Andres110 said:
All Grandma is doing is shouting along with the others.
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It's that or get dad. So far there hasn't been a brilliant plan to leverage the Golden, and we haven't even come together to discuss what we want out of this yet. Additionally, even if the plan is amazing, Kakara could still screw it up massively with a bad dice roll. Like the time she broke down when trying to communicate why sealing Jaffur was bad to her father.

I mean what do we have so far? Telling the Head Priest of the Faith what to do, dumping water on them while leaving the floor open for an Space Pope interrupt, chiding them for acting like children and then betraying the trust of a new friend to fling unsubstantiated claims, flexing our power to shut everyone up, and having a nine year old explain to a room of adults why giving him this power is a bad idea. Well we also have Bakkasama's complex plan but it runs into the same issues as the last one.

I find it ridiculous that we expect Kakara to be able to do this and have people listen to her. Maybe it is a disconnect between what I see and what @PoptartProdigy sees at work here, but it doesn't look like Kakara's intervention would help. For all that she is a religious idol, she's a nine year old kid who represents the system these people are angry with.
 
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Yeah, when you put it like that none of the options look good. Guess we'll have to pick our battles and just let this one play out on its own, at least for now.

[] Watch and wait.
 
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Kairos123 said:
It's that or get dad. So far there hasn't been a brilliant plan to leverage the Golden, and we haven't even come together to discuss what we want out of this yet. Additionally, even if the plan is amazing, Kakara could still screw it up massively with a bad dice roll. Like the time she broke down when trying to communicate why sealing Jaffur was bad to her father.

I mean what do we have so far? Telling the Head Priest of the Faith what to do, dumping water on them while leaving the floor open for an Space Pope interrupt, chiding them for acting like children and then betraying the trust of a new friend to fling unsubstantiated claims, flexing our power to shut everyone up, and having a nine year old explain to a room of adults why giving him this power is a bad idea. Well we also have Bakkasama's complex plan but it runs into the same issues as the last one.

I find it ridiculous that we expect Kakara to be able to do this and have people listen to her. Maybe it is a disconnect between what I see and what @PoptartProdigy sees at work here, but it doesn't look like Kakara's intervention would help. For all that she is a religious idol, she's a nine year old kid who represents the system these people are angry with.
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I presume the tag means you want a response?

I give you all no unwinnable choices. The issues you're identifying exist, but they're not insurmountable. Then again, it's up to you whether or not you want to solve them. Letting this go through is one option. Watching and waiting for things to settle on their own is another. And all of those options have merits.

I will also say: you all are slightly misinterpreting where and why the anger of the crowd is aimed.

No tally yet. Vote's still moving.
 
We have one serious card to play here. What happened before and during the sealing is still secret, and we know from the radio reports that the entire population is very interested. If Kakara started talking about what happened it would shut everybody up out of sheer curiosity if nothing else. Since she was there she is a credible source, so no issues on that front. It also deflects some of the criticism directed towards the lord leadership since it tells everyone that she defied her own father in her attempt to defuse the situation. It may even make her appear more respectable, sympathetic, or downright heroic, especially among the Vegetans and the Mato. Seizing the focus might not be a bad thing there, since if there's going to be a major power shift anyway it's not really a bad thing for her to be beloved by the rising side.

Of course, that could easily blow up in our faces, but so could anything we do. The big difference about this card is that it suddenly spins the board around for everybody and turns this into a contest of improvisation instead of preparation.

Plus, the faith apparently loves a good yarn.

[] "I have a story..."​
 
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They don't blame us, they blame our father and the two previous Lords. We're nine. Revealing that we were against our father just tells them that the Lords really can't rule the Saiyans properly.
 
On phone right now so don't expect anything detailed but it seems that we should try to figure out why people are angry, given the hint Poptart gave us. It seems to me that the problem they have is with the civil unrest that the whole silence from authorities and hands off aproach causes, which makes them feel abandoned to the point that they are willing to put anyone in power as long as it adds some order. Thus, arguing against this won't solve the problem. If we want them to calm down and stop this madness, we must give them an alternative and a figure to look up to and clear them of the feeling of nothing being done with them being powerless about it.

Naturally, we want power to remain in house, which means either us or Grandma. Grandma has the advantage of already being a member and understanding the workings of the faith but people already put her role in question since it was already her duty to correct the Lords if they were out ofline and she did not.

Kakara actually has several things going for her. She is the Gold so she is chief demigod in the pantheon and she is mysterious, which adds to her mistique. The fact that she is a child can be overcome with the worship they have to super saiyan. If we want to go full awe, we can also disclose that we are a seer, that we got divine inspiration for becoming golden oozaru or that we can talk to a god (since the old man was quick to point out we are not one). Downside is we might have to take a stance on the matter though we could advice caution and not to rush into a desition. Dad will probably be flabbergasted if we pull that off but might be a bit appeased if we explain about Peat and that we didn't see much better alternatives. Also, Kakara won't enjoy being in that position.

So yeah, I basically think we should focus on giving them a figure to rally behind so that they don't feel so lost. I will make a more complete argument later, with quotes and stuff.

@PoptartProdigy am I close to the root of it? Is this somewhat accurate?
 
Andres110 said:
In this case he's correct. We want to free Jaffur, Dandeer wants to keep him imprisoned.
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That's only one of our goals though.

Shes an enemy on that one particular issue, but shes a long term ally of our father AND in this particular circumstance wants the same thing we want.
 
Sucal said:
That's only one of our goals though.

Shes an enemy on that one particular issue, but shes a long term ally of our father AND in this particular circumstance wants the same thing we want.
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Vegeta and Goku fought together against Cooler, but it didn't stop Vegeta from hating Goku and he Big Bang Attacked them both at the same time the first opportunity he got. She's our father's ally, not ours. In this one situation we want the same thing, but that doesn't make us allies. She is not in the Allies section of Relationships, she is in the Enemies section and she takes the spot for being our most hated enemy. She is far from being an ally, much less one of our greatest allies. The idea is laughable.
 
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Andres110 said:
Vegeta and Goku fought together against Cooler, but it didn't stop Vegeta from hating Goku and he Big Bang Attacked them both at the same time the first opportunity he got. She's our father's ally, not ours. In this one situation we want the same thing, but that doesn't make us allies. She is far from being an ally, much less one of our greatest allies. The idea would be laughable were it not frustrating that someone actually believes it.
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And they later became actual allies. As did Piccolo, Tien, Chiaotzu, Yamcha...

Just because an ally of convenience and overall enemy currently, doesn't mean it'll always be so.

But that's for the future.

Another possible vote:

[X] Oppose the motion.
-[X] Fly up above Caelan, go Super Saiyan and raise your power level to maximum to attract everyones attention.
-[X] Once you have it, power down and calmly state that if they're worried about falling apart without a leader, you are willing moderate this Council and enforce order.
--[X] One person at a time, no interruptions, everyone gets a turn if so desired.
-[X] If people start getting rowdy and you can't calm them down, start ejecting them with Instant Transmission, or throwing them out, whichever is faster.
 
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Gore17 said:
And they later became actual allies. As did Piccolo, Tien, Chiaotzu, Yamcha...
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What about others like Frieza, Cell, and Kid Buu? Sometimes you just have to beat your enemies. Heck, the last success story in that regard was Vegeta and he didn't stop doing absurdly evil crap until he killed himself in the Buu Saga.

I'm hoping that we can talk her into releasing Jaffur of her own free will, maybe getting Dad on our side first and then using cookies to boost the check (DC 95 (we chipped away a bit of her certainty); +30 from cookies, +10 from Dad, +10 from Mum: 55% chance of success before taking into account Socialiser and level-ups in Communication) but the main objective should be to free Jaffur, not make future friends with Dandeer.

Gore17 said:
-[X] If people start getting rowdy and you can't calm them down, start ejecting them with Instant Transmission, or throwing them out, whichever is faster.
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I don't like this vote in general because it legitimises the option of empowering Celeran and having one person talk at a time will take forever considering the hundreds/thousands in attendance, but this bit right here is hilarious. To Garenhulders it would probably look like a meteor shower. :p
 
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Kairos123 said:
I find it ridiculous that we expect Kakara to be able to do this and have people listen to her. Maybe it is a disconnect between what I see and what @PoptartProdigy sees at work here, but it doesn't look like Kakara's intervention would help. For all that she is a religious idol, she's a nine year old kid who represents the system these people are angry with.
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I don't think Kakara being 9 is as relevant as you think it is. Remember, Gohan was also 9 or 10 when he killed Cell. This being Dragon Ball, and thus also Shonen, I feel we can expect to be able to influence stuff in our own right even at our age.
 
@PoptartProdigy, apologies if this has been answered before. I may not have seen the answer and my memory is garbage anyway (except when it comes to Dragon Ball lore).

PoptartProdigy said:
Possible things you can check against are: willpower pushes (explained below), deadlocked Communication checks, mind control, sorcerous possession, bleed-out time, morale checks, and more.
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What's a deadlocked Communication check? Is this one of them?

Can we use willpower pushes for non-violent actions? We're playing a pacifist and they'd be useful to have.
 
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Andres110 said:
I don't like this vote in general because it legitimises the option of empowering Celeran
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In this case, it's getting a moderator for the Council. No authority transferred outside of that, and if there is any, it's directed at us.
Andres110 said:
and having one person talk at a time will take forever considering the hundreds/thousands in attendance,
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I believe it's 6,000. And we will take however long it has to take! :mad:

But yeah, probably implement a time limit. Or have people give their talk to someone else, to indicate support.
Andres110 said:
but this bit right here is hilarious. To Garenhulders it would probably look like a meteor shower. :p
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If they were nearby, obviously. :p
 
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