Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Dragon Ball: After the End
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
Considering that we tortured her by grabbing her tail and using her as a flail, she might have reason to doubt any apology we give for not talking to her, more so if it happens as soon as she has the upper hand.
- Location
- Italy
I feel just a bit ignored as well
Only thing we might consider to add in the speech is maybe a mention of how Gohan trusted us with the genkidama and agreed that Jaffur didn't deserve the seal. If Kakara's words have less weight to her because she's a child, than we need to use someone else's authority. Like dear old grandpa Gohan
- Location
- Academy City
- Pronouns
- They
A thought occurs. If we want to make her actually believe we're willing to work with her despite hating her, we might want to play the Son Gohan card there, instead. If we tell her he's the one who taught us the spirit bomb via a vision, and then say we just came out of a vision where we got advice...
Rather than us changing our mind unprompted, I think mentioning Jiji here is the way to go. Especially considering he's someone dandeer looks up to as well.
Rather than us changing our mind unprompted, I think mentioning Jiji here is the way to go. Especially considering he's someone dandeer looks up to as well.
- Location
- Here and there
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Cariyaga, the apology is included in the beginning. Steps 9 & 10 are to put the pressure on and make it more likely Dandeer won't try to stall.
Perhaps an alternate step 10 where it focuses on Dandeer having the choice to be a hero or a villain?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
You're right, I screwed up, my brain was in a poor-memory place and I should have reviewed.
I'm sorry.
That said, did you bring your plan to Poptart's attention? This discussion sequence won't last forever.
- Location
- Here and there
- Pronouns
- He/Him
For the record, I'm using this:
As the basis point for my plan, with the caveat of compressing the timespan immensely and substituting the helpelessness and hopelessness of being caught with the helplessness and hopelessness of a broken family.
Kakara, now is the time to roll high.
As the basis point for my plan, with the caveat of compressing the timespan immensely and substituting the helpelessness and hopelessness of being caught with the helplessness and hopelessness of a broken family.
Kakara, now is the time to roll high.
deadcrystal
Slaaneshi Cultist
- Location
- The Warp
Seems like a trivially easy choice to me. Kill Dandeer, save the Quest from the garbage heap.
Gonna note I don't think that argument will go anywhere. She murdered the Vegetan Sorcerors both gleefully and maliciously. She wasn't reluctantly doing something she didn't want to do because she thought it would lead to the best outcome. She did it because she wanted to do it, for herself. She doesn't care about what's 'best' she cares about what's best for her, personally.
Gonna note I don't think that argument will go anywhere. She murdered the Vegetan Sorcerors both gleefully and maliciously. She wasn't reluctantly doing something she didn't want to do because she thought it would lead to the best outcome. She did it because she wanted to do it, for herself. She doesn't care about what's 'best' she cares about what's best for her, personally.
- Location
- Here and there
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This my own little field of crazy, but there's just a personality disconnect from that and how she's acting now even when she's won that I'm beginning to think something about that entire event is fucky. People were already complaining about how impossible it was for Dandeer to kill all those Sorcerer's, and with the power she demonstrated here? I personally think that she didn't kill them.
Course, that's my own brand of crazy that I'd like to confirm before we bug out, but we probably won't get the chance.
That said, going to try to turn that plan into a write-in now. @Pittauro @Simon_Jester @Gore17, any last minute suggestions? I want to be able to pass that blame around when this goes south.
- Location
- Following The Apocalypse
(Peaks head out of pillow fort)
Yay, the salt storm is over!
There were a few people talking about sending our friends to the Senju's while we try to diplomance Dandere. While everyone thinks we are betting on being able to talk her out of this, where we are actually stacking the deck in our favor. Also, if we end up having to spiritualy GTFO then I want to maximize the likely hood of there being something to come back to.
Yay, the salt storm is over!
There were a few people talking about sending our friends to the Senju's while we try to diplomance Dandere. While everyone thinks we are betting on being able to talk her out of this, where we are actually stacking the deck in our favor. Also, if we end up having to spiritualy GTFO then I want to maximize the likely hood of there being something to come back to.
- Location
- Here and there
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The plan as I currently understand it is, "Try a speech, and if that doesn't work go right into the Future Plan."
- Location
- Here and there
- Pronouns
- He/Him
@PoptartProdigy
[] Speech Write in
-[] "Dandeer...I'm sorry. Not for trying to free Jaffur, but for not trying to talk to you first. Maybe you wouldn't have listened to me, but I still should have tried."
-[] "That day when Jaffur was sealed...It was the worst day of my life. Being pinned, trapped there, forced to hear him crying and screaming...to hear him screaming for my help, and not being able to do anything...That's haunted me for years. It's why I didn't want to talk to you, to work this out. Because that? That was wrong, and more then that, it wasn't what anyone wanted. It wasn't what you wanted."
-[] "It wasn't what you wanted then, and it's still not what you want. Not really. You don't want to spend your life living in a dollhouse, you want a family. But this isn't the way to get it. Even if you seal Jaffur again, seal Vegeta, seal me and Dad and everyone it won't make them love you, just make them forget to hate you." at this point just start going to town on how fucked up people locked in masques are. If Dandeer tries to interject, burst out with "JARON TRIED TO COMMIT SUICIDE." Describe the scene in as much detail as possible. Hammer in how the Masque brought him to the edge.
-[] "I don't think you're a monster. I think you wanted to protect your family, and that you were just trying to do the right thing, but you're not helping them Dandeer, you're hurting them and you're hurting yourself to."
-[] "You can still stop this. Piccolo, Vegeta, Darzeal? They've done worse things than you ever have, and they were forgiven. No matter what you've done, we'd still forgive you. We're supposed to be family right? Families are supposed to do that, but you have to give us that chance."
-[] "If you don't? If you decide to go through with this again, knowing what it will do to your own sons?" Bring out the suicide thing here if it hasn't come out yet. "Then I was wrong, and you are a monster. But I don't believe that, not for one second. I think you're more than that, and son Gohan's willing to vouch for me, so take that how you will."
-[] "People don't just decide one day to be evil. They make that decision everyday, with every choice. All you have to do is stop making it. I can't stop you if you don't. The decision is yours. It's up to you Dandeer. Decide who you want to be."
-[] If failure, say "I still don't think I'm wrong. I hope one day you make the right choice." Proceed into
--[ ] The original plan. As the vision counseled, Kakara will break her restraints, wreak havoc in order to give the Senzus an opportunity to escape, and send messages to as many people as she can giving them the coordinates to Senzu Hall and an order to get under cover. When she is finally subdued, she will cast herself free in a mind projection to escape Sealing. She'll find a safe place to anchor, and find a way to get stronger in preparation for her return later.
-[] If success "Thank you." REOPEN VOTE FROM THERE.
@Simon_Jester @Gore17 @Pittauro
Thoughts? Suggestions?
[] Speech Write in
-[] "Dandeer...I'm sorry. Not for trying to free Jaffur, but for not trying to talk to you first. Maybe you wouldn't have listened to me, but I still should have tried."
-[] "That day when Jaffur was sealed...It was the worst day of my life. Being pinned, trapped there, forced to hear him crying and screaming...to hear him screaming for my help, and not being able to do anything...That's haunted me for years. It's why I didn't want to talk to you, to work this out. Because that? That was wrong, and more then that, it wasn't what anyone wanted. It wasn't what you wanted."
-[] "It wasn't what you wanted then, and it's still not what you want. Not really. You don't want to spend your life living in a dollhouse, you want a family. But this isn't the way to get it. Even if you seal Jaffur again, seal Vegeta, seal me and Dad and everyone it won't make them love you, just make them forget to hate you." at this point just start going to town on how fucked up people locked in masques are. If Dandeer tries to interject, burst out with "JARON TRIED TO COMMIT SUICIDE." Describe the scene in as much detail as possible. Hammer in how the Masque brought him to the edge.
-[] "I don't think you're a monster. I think you wanted to protect your family, and that you were just trying to do the right thing, but you're not helping them Dandeer, you're hurting them and you're hurting yourself to."
-[] "You can still stop this. Piccolo, Vegeta, Darzeal? They've done worse things than you ever have, and they were forgiven. No matter what you've done, we'd still forgive you. We're supposed to be family right? Families are supposed to do that, but you have to give us that chance."
-[] "If you don't? If you decide to go through with this again, knowing what it will do to your own sons?" Bring out the suicide thing here if it hasn't come out yet. "Then I was wrong, and you are a monster. But I don't believe that, not for one second. I think you're more than that, and son Gohan's willing to vouch for me, so take that how you will."
-[] "People don't just decide one day to be evil. They make that decision everyday, with every choice. All you have to do is stop making it. I can't stop you if you don't. The decision is yours. It's up to you Dandeer. Decide who you want to be."
-[] If failure, say "I still don't think I'm wrong. I hope one day you make the right choice." Proceed into
--[ ] The original plan. As the vision counseled, Kakara will break her restraints, wreak havoc in order to give the Senzus an opportunity to escape, and send messages to as many people as she can giving them the coordinates to Senzu Hall and an order to get under cover. When she is finally subdued, she will cast herself free in a mind projection to escape Sealing. She'll find a safe place to anchor, and find a way to get stronger in preparation for her return later.
-[] If success "Thank you." REOPEN VOTE FROM THERE.
@Simon_Jester @Gore17 @Pittauro
Thoughts? Suggestions?
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- Location
- Somewhere I shouldn't be
- Location
- Here and there
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Point, but poptart usually rephrases stuff anyway, so I doubt there's much harm.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
@chryssalideater
Editing a tag in won't alert the person you're tagging, it has to be a fresh post. Quote your speech and tag Poptart again.
Editing a tag in won't alert the person you're tagging, it has to be a fresh post. Quote your speech and tag Poptart again.
- Location
- Here and there
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
There is. Poptart does exactly what we tell them to. We are very much worse at talking than Kakara is.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Unless you change the situation such that the original vision plan no longer works, sure.
Yeah, it looks like y'all aren't really done chatting it out, so I'll delay the unlock.
- Location
- Here and there
- Pronouns
- He/Him
@PoptartProdigy and a generic version of the plan.
[] Speech
-[] Apologize for not talking before (disarms Dandeer, makes her more receptive)
-[] "The day of the sealing was the worst day of my life." Mostly accurate, and we can dive into how wrong it seemed and how helpless we felt (puts the outside context of Dandeer's actions into sharp relief)
-[]"This isn't what you want."(The ultimate goal of this conversation; convince her of this and we've effectively won.
-[]Go into how the Sealed people don't love her, aren't happy, won't lead good lives ( Builds off what Yammar was saying, reinforces the narrative.)
-[]If/When she attempts to counter, yell "Jaron tried to commit suicide!" (Amps up intensity, breaks the view that the sealing is keeping her family safe.)
-[]"I don't think you're a monster."(Sad to say it, but I'm starting to believe that.) Push the "just trying to keep her family safe" angle, but emphasize this isnt how to do it.
-[]"There's still a chance for redemption, no matter what you've done ." (Vegeta the penitent, Darzeral, etc. the 'no matter what' gives her an out for the sorcerer genocide.)
-[]"If you surrender now, you can still have a happy ending." (No one will kill her, still have a place in this world. Important not to sugarcoat things, but provide that day of hope.)
--[]Tie in Son Gohan backing us around here, and use that to make our belief in her carry more weight.
-[]"If you don't surrender, you're a monster" (The second half, emphasize all the bad things that will happen with the sealing, being out the suicide if it hasn't been brought out yet.)
-[]"The choice is yours." Emphasize that Dandeer has the opportunity to choose in this situation, while making it very clear what the morally right choice is. Will hopefully play into her control complex, while also phrasing the choice in terms of "Good end" and "Bad end" in our favor.
[] Speech
-[] Apologize for not talking before (disarms Dandeer, makes her more receptive)
-[] "The day of the sealing was the worst day of my life." Mostly accurate, and we can dive into how wrong it seemed and how helpless we felt (puts the outside context of Dandeer's actions into sharp relief)
-[]"This isn't what you want."(The ultimate goal of this conversation; convince her of this and we've effectively won.
-[]Go into how the Sealed people don't love her, aren't happy, won't lead good lives ( Builds off what Yammar was saying, reinforces the narrative.)
-[]If/When she attempts to counter, yell "Jaron tried to commit suicide!" (Amps up intensity, breaks the view that the sealing is keeping her family safe.)
-[]"I don't think you're a monster."(Sad to say it, but I'm starting to believe that.) Push the "just trying to keep her family safe" angle, but emphasize this isnt how to do it.
-[]"There's still a chance for redemption, no matter what you've done ." (Vegeta the penitent, Darzeral, etc. the 'no matter what' gives her an out for the sorcerer genocide.)
-[]"If you surrender now, you can still have a happy ending." (No one will kill her, still have a place in this world. Important not to sugarcoat things, but provide that day of hope.)
--[]Tie in Son Gohan backing us around here, and use that to make our belief in her carry more weight.
-[]"If you don't surrender, you're a monster" (The second half, emphasize all the bad things that will happen with the sealing, being out the suicide if it hasn't been brought out yet.)
-[]"The choice is yours." Emphasize that Dandeer has the opportunity to choose in this situation, while making it very clear what the morally right choice is. Will hopefully play into her control complex, while also phrasing the choice in terms of "Good end" and "Bad end" in our favor.
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- Location
- Actually pretty lost
@PoptartProdigy do the restraints stop us from powering up, or inhibit our ability to Sense Ki?
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Try it and see.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Isn't sensing ki something Kakara will know if she can do the very moment she wakes up?
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Y'know what, sure. You can sense things.