shepsquared
Erratic Aussie
- Location
- Melbourne, Australia
[X] You're not much one for blasts, but Freeza must know that too, by now. How furious would he be if blasting was all you decided to do right now? Make him dance. (x2 vote weighting.)
Dragon Ball: After the End
TheRuisu
I think that I'm the Dragon
- Location
- Best Location, of course. Keijoverse
@PoptartProdigy, I lurk the thread so I'm sorry if this questions was asked before but what would've happened if we went to Dandeer/Yammar/Berra with Spirit Saiyan on?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I mean, I'm pretty sure we could have overpowered anyone and everyone present, imprisoned anyone she had under mind control in bubbles of telekinesis, and just supercharged a spell from Dandelor to break whatever the hell he wanted broken at that point.
Unless Dandeer has a spell that dismantles the Spirit Bomb or the Spirit Saiyan state, which is conceivable, but I don't expect Poptart to tell us about it if true, because that might be plot-relevant later.
Huh. Who'd they take hostage that time? Or...You'll have one anyway.It wasn't actually about the mind control. Yammar has a trait forbidding him from honoring a hostage as a check on his actions. He got it during the Death of Talt.
Oh shit. Is this why, as far as I can remember, we never heard anything about Lord Vegeta's mom?
Also, now I'm guessing that Dandeer's mind control DID include a "don't hurt Dandeer" clause (from Berra's actions) and it slammed headfirst into Yammar's personality and lost.
Fuuuuu-
- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
Given his rant to us, I'm guessing his own father.
- Location
- Here and there
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Thus meaning there are personality traits that can be leveraged to break the mind control. Well shit, we really fucked this up.
- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
I thought they killed him, and then when he went after them, they took his mother hostage, and at that point he snapped, called their bluff, only, oops, they weren't bluffing, but, oops again, turns out killing your hostage just makes the guy whose family you killed even madder.
Or, you know, that was just Berra not wanting to hurt someone he(at that time) viewed as an old friend who was innocent of any crime?
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Kakara strains to think of a scenario in which Dandeer had a counter to that ready to go. You probably would have won.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Unless she had a "pop Spirit Bombs" spell that also worked on the Spirit Saiyan form, and was guided to cast it by Carrick, I can't see her having been able to pull out a win, yeah.
I was under the impression that the Talts straight-up murdered his father, from ambush. They were going to have enough trouble fighting two full-power super saiyans, let alone three.
Taking a super-saiyan hostage just isn't a very good idea in general, unless you're as strong as, say, Buu.
Well, we THOUGHT talking people out of the mind control was an option. The main problem was that our obvious tactic for talking Berra down was insanely risky, and we didn't know Yammar well enough to have much luck figuring out where his buttons were. Especially since we didn't know about the mind control having the effect that it did until, well, we'd already grabbed Dandeer and fallen afoul of his no-hostages trait.
If we'd socialized with him, we might have figured some of this out- but Yammar was never a leading candidate for socialization with us.
I mean, YES, you're not wrong, but at the same time...
I for one was wondering, "So why can Yammar allow Dandeer to be hurt?" This question was pivotal to trying to understand his behavior both in the second fight between us (where Dandeer got beaten to a pulp), and the supposed counter-tactic he'd use if we'd tried anything OTHER than Dandeer flail once we had her in hand (namely, blow Dandeer up with a blast).
Because as a matter of basic common sense, you'd think that Dandeer would include "don't hurt Dandeer" in her mind control of Yammar. I know I would if I were in her shoes. So the question is then, why was Yammar willing or even ABLE to carry out actions that would hurt Dandeer?
And now we have an answer.
- Location
- Here and there
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Well, I suppose we've all learned a very valuable lesson in regards to fights in dragonball over the past 2 weeks:
Don't. Fucking. Job.
*cue TFS outro music*
Don't. Fucking. Job.
*cue TFS outro music*
- Location
- Academy City
- Pronouns
- They
I'm flattered, and very glad that you enjoyed it, but that's not actually compliant. I was considering making a canon negaverse, but this one is actually a negaverse for a oneshot AU I posted here.Nice.
By the by, did anybody else have omakes for me that I haven't threadmarked? I'm sure I've lost a few in the flare-ups following the loss.
Personally, my guess about potential counters?
a) She seals the ability for ki to be gathered. Useful to stop it forming, useless afterwards.
b) She inserts a "trojan" into people, so once they donate their ki and Kakara absorbs it, the spell takes affect.
She removed any desire for Yammar to actively hurt her, and has real-time scrubbing of any negative thoughts about her. Why wouldn't that be enough?
Just as it surprised most people in-thread that Yammar would be willing to go through her, it would likely be a surprise to her as well. Remember, Future Kakara outright says she misses things.
Last edited:
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
I think it is less a matter of Kakara not knowing how she would do it and more on how it would be possible for her to do in two months without knowing how the technique works. We already suspected she was working on a counter but bigger spells take a lot of prep time supposedly, and more if you have to create the from scratch.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Wait. A Human Masque works by restricting the power level, by removing the part that's Saiyan and leaving only the Human part - and yet still leaving 100% of the power (without SSJ, and before accounting for Masque affinity reducing that.) Conversely, a Saiyan Masque does the opposite, removing the Human part and leaving only the Saiyan part. Since they are each explicitly made up of the half that's not used by the other, does this mean that you could get two full-power Masque clones, so long as they're different Masques?
Last edited:
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
No, because it would seal part of the clones PL, not your total. You would be left with two different masques of someone with half your power level.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Oh, you think the fact that we have to use Multiform first means the clone will already be at 50%, and it will stay that way. That's possible.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Well, the thing is, we get extra power (that is, total PL greater than 1.125 billion) out of Multiform clones by drawing on multiple wells of power that we can't tap all at the same time while in the same body. At the moment we've got four such wells:
-Base form
-Oozaru form (mutually exclusive with base)
-Super Saiyan
-Spirit Saiyan
Any given clone draws from one of the 'form' wells and as many as she wants of the 'saiyan' wells (at least IN THEORY we might be able to do a Spirit Oozaru; in practice I doubt this would work, and there's no good reason to try).
Our Masques don't create a new power supply, they just 'filter' and to some extent limit our ability to draw from the base form's well. If we have two clones drawing from the base form power supply, then their combined power level is going to be limited to what the base form contains- that is, a combined power level of 375 million or less.
-Base form
-Oozaru form (mutually exclusive with base)
-Super Saiyan
-Spirit Saiyan
Any given clone draws from one of the 'form' wells and as many as she wants of the 'saiyan' wells (at least IN THEORY we might be able to do a Spirit Oozaru; in practice I doubt this would work, and there's no good reason to try).
Our Masques don't create a new power supply, they just 'filter' and to some extent limit our ability to draw from the base form's well. If we have two clones drawing from the base form power supply, then their combined power level is going to be limited to what the base form contains- that is, a combined power level of 375 million or less.
- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
So, how many Saiyans does Garenhuld possess? Because if all of them were maxed out SS1's, and Spirit Saiyan was used to combine their power, I was wondering if you could match SS God-form, if only in terms of raw might rather than whatever advantages Divine QI might give. If we've got 10000 Saiyans, and they all have the 1.125 non GO cap, then that's 11 trillion. 112 trillion if it's 100000 Saiyans.
There's roughly 300,000 (three hundred thousand) Saiyans on Garenhuld, as far as I can remember.
- Location
- Italy
i think it's 300.000 right now. And our current spirit saiyan is already ssj3 level probably, so it's possible we might get close to ssj god.
EDIT:
Hard to say, seen as we know NOTHING of how god ki interacts with power levels. Golden Frieza does not have god ki i think, and he could keep up.
Of course if ssj was not restricted anymore, there would be a decent risk of civil war. Less likely under Kakara's and Jaffur's rule than the current lords, but still possible
Really, super saiyan should be, if not outright forbidden, at least somewhat limited/controlled. Maybe granted case by case. Still a thought for the future.
If we ever decide to go big against the enemy we'll of course have no need to worry about simple civil war
If Super Saiyan wasn't restricted, Dandeer would never have been able to accomplish anything, and Dazarel wouldn't even remotely have been a threat to Garenhuld.
The Super Saiyan restriction really does seem to primarily be about keeping the line of Lady Garla in power, and it might really not be necessary for political unity at this point, especially if there could be a reformation to some sort of democracy.
At the very least, I'd much rather have Super Saiyan be restricted to an elected body trusted by the Saiyans as a whole (possibly vetted by both Seers, Mind Delve and Sorcerers) than have Super Saiyans determined by nepotism.
- Location
- Academy City
- Pronouns
- They
My only issue with widespread super saiyans is that it vastly increases the annihilation chance. It's bad enough when only the royals are at risk; when the entire population is one epiphany away from extinction, things will come crashing down real fast. Maybe having some super saiyan sorcerers will let us increase the cap to allow at least initial SSj2, but until we get some kind of feasibility estimate from Dandelor I'd rather not go ahead on that.
In principle, this might be also solved by just not teaching FPSSJ, but it's been figured out independantly twice, and the exile population has a proof of concept right here.
In principle, this might be also solved by just not teaching FPSSJ, but it's been figured out independantly twice, and the exile population has a proof of concept right here.
I mean, we can at the very least have Super Saiyan be legal for anyone, while FPSSJ is only legal for an elected body vetted by both Seers and Sorcery,. We don't need to hide FPSSJ to prevent people from obtaining it, we just need to stop anyone from illegally training it up (which would be damn near impossible, since not even Dandelor's wards could withstand the power of a Super Saiyan). While ordinary Super Saiyans aren't as strong as FPSSJs, they'd at least be useful in a fight and able to overwhelm FPSSJ-level foes by sheer numbers, especially if they had access to the form Vegeta used against Semi-Perfect Cell.
Also, Seers would likely be getting warnings about people possibly going SSJ2, which would allow the government to prevent that from happening.
- Location
- Italy
I think it would be better to limit both ssj and the full power version.
Mind delve and seers to check every candidate (or those who achieved the form without permission), with the transformation sealed for those considered too dangerous.
I wonder, if the transformation became free, what percentage of the population would transform? How many would reach the cap for Full Power SSJ?
Some won't be interested, others simply wouldn't have the talent or the necessary drive.
note to ourselves: ask the sorcerers if the wards can be improved with Spirit Saiyan Ki once this clusterfuck is over.
Also train the genkidama. We still have it as unlearned and it's by far our strongest technique.
I'd love to reach Elite with it, with the relative talent being something like "capable of chargin ki while moving/fighting"
Of course if we get perfect multiform, that would be not quite as usefull/necessary.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Ah, gotcha. Corrected. And thanks for pointing me that way, I'd missed that entirely! Non-Canon, of course, but still quite good, and the bonus goes to talking down opponents.