Dragon Ball: After the End
- Location
- canada
probs has a decent chance, remember the need is there, she has mastered SS1 and she also has the human blood in her which apparently makes it easier to reach the lower forms of SS than for pure Saiyans. Oh and that purity of heart and odds completely against her which seems to work towards emotions pretty well. Unless the QM is completely against it we should have decent odds of attaining it. Like say, 60% chances? The problem is what comes afterwards....
But ya I think I still wanna gamble on it and warn Maya.... because simply put I do NOT want to end up in space without a body.... This whole bs just tore the story off its rails. Honestly as I was catching up I knew this was too easy.... We shoulda just stuck with the Senzu's and convinced them that everyone else could not be trusted but meh.
Either way I am convinced dat dis bitch Dandeera has help from an outside source and is NOT using traditional Saiyan sealing magic. She is just too stronk and knowledgeable. Traitor turned to the guy who wiped us out in the first place anyone?
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
Dandeer has mind control over multiple Super Saiyans. Furthermore, Kakara is not actually a skilled combatant, and over-compensating by just using more power would be one of the risks.
But let's say you're 100% right and there's no "next 2 minutes" risk to anyone besides Dandeer.
How many Exiles who've done nothing wrong are you willing to leave to be killed by the enemy, for the sake of a chance to beat Dandeer here and now, in this moment?
How many lives on Garenhuld are acceptable sacrifice to win against Dandeer right now, instead of down the road?
How many men, women, and children who have done nothing but live their lives are you willing to consign to death for this?
Because if we go Super Saiyan 2 we must assume we won't be strong enough to be guaranteed victory, or even holding the line, against The Enemy if they come in 1-2 years. In which case, it becomes a question of "who do we save", with numbers likely in 3 digits. 4 if we're lucky.
So, again.
How many innocent lives is your immediate revenge worth?
- Location
- canada
well ACTUALLY given the incoming fleet, may not be as bad as you think if we can convince them (being from earth with our rep should help a LOT) to continue on out with all the saiyans and the humans who actually matter like Maya.... well our people only truly number in the 4 digits anyway from what I have read so far. Maybe 5 digits tops. and lets be honest here, does ANYONE truly care about the native humans? I know IC we will but in the end they don't matter all that much in the long run and the enemy may leave them alone if we leave.
So I figure we leave the world after again and separate from our people along with Jaffur to train up to be stronger than Goku and Vegeta were. Eventually refinding our people and becoming SS gods ourselves and refining it to reach blue god status. That will almost certainly be enough to deal with the belligerent craplord.
EDIT: Also its not immidiate revenge, it is the preventation of the endless torture and evil Dandeera is commiting REMEMBER Jaron is going to commit suicide if we don't save him while we have the chance. I can't see how the QM will be able to justify him living past this if we fail here at all.... unless it is in a mindshattered state where he can never recover from along with Jaffur. Because that is what that kind of mental torture that Dandeera is commiting does.
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- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Welcome aboard!
d20s are something I'm considering. The random factor is not precisely the factor against which I'm trying to weigh here; I'm trying to make sure that the new mechanics don't have too much mental, "bookkeeping," for easy access. Any revamp of the rules is going to pretty inevitably involve some hefty condensation of the current skills system; heck, if it's to be accessible in any sane manner, I may need to do away entirely with specific skills like Kamehameha in favor of the overskills such as Ki Projection! There are, after all, an awful lot of them. d20s wouldn't necessarily assist with that, although I have considered them as a potential option for a new system.
The issue with going SSJ2 is twofold: first, while the players are capable of reading BoD's authors notes and finding out what the transformation requires, Kakara is not, and has no idea how to go about it. Second, while the players know the requirements in particular, knowing what something requires does not relate to ease of accomplishment.
In plain language, Kakara would be shooting blind, at a target which is far harder to hit than many seem to be assuming.
- Location
- Australia
She's skilled. She's very skilled.
- Location
- canada
mmm then how do you intend for Jaffur to live through this without committing suicide or being driven to the point where he effectively ceases to exist? (Same for JArod for that matter.) Seems to me like you have written yourself into a corner there making Dandeera too powerful and his whole suicidal thing. At least if you intend for him to live at all.... obviously you can take the tragic route of offing him anyway.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
In the interests of clearing up what appears to be an incipient miscommunication: I believe Knight is trying to say that Kakara is relatively unskilled compared to the fighters she would be facing in this situation.
Which is true.
Any definitive answer to this would be a spoiler, but I will say that I know a lot about this setting to which the players are not privy due to their viewpoint. What may look like a corner may in fact just be the edges of the light cast by the lantern you carry in a very, very dark room.
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
Well, OOC I care.
But, hey, at least Kakara will have something in common with Dandeer, then: She won't care about the non-Saiyans, as their lives clearly won't have any worth or value. Their deaths are a worthwhile sacrifice for her to maybe "win" now. Only Saiyan lives matter.
Compared to the other Super-Saiyans, no, she's not.
- Location
- Australia
It doesn't matter. You saw how quickly and how easily Gohan overpowered Cell and the Cell Jrs, and he didn't utilise any real combat skill against them, just a few simple kicks and punches. Full Power Super Saiyans are much weaker than they were. It doesn't matter that they're more skilled than Kakara - it's nowhere near enough to compensate for how weak they'd be compared to Kakara at Super Saiyan 2.
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
Are you 100% certain the power gap would be sufficient to completely overcome the skill gap?
Are you willing to bet Kakara's long-term psychological well-being against that certainty?
And what level of casualties, both in the immediate term (people in the Hall) and long term (people on the planet in danger from the Enemy) are you willing to put at risk, including the risk of death/genocide, for the sake of winning here, now, do not wait, do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars?
- Location
- Italy
Cell jr were about as strong as Vegeta or Trunks in their bulked ssj form. going by these power levels Gohan was probably 4 times as strong as them, if not a bit more. Here Kakara would be about twice as strong as the other ssj. Not counting Kaioken and difference in skills AND numbers.
- Location
- Australia
Yes and no. That is, I would be willing to bet it if I wanted SS2 to happen, but I've already made it clear that I only care about seeing a diplomatic end.
Not sure how you can make that claim. They were only doing as well against those two as they were against guys like Krillin and Tien, who they were obviously holding back against. Given that Cell said they were as powerful as him, I think it's more reasonable to assume that they were holding back against Vegeta and Trunks as well.
- Location
- canada
alright.... but please PM me if you intend to turn this into a tragedy. I don't deal well with those because I get EXTREMELY attached to good characters and when they die off combined with my depression..... just please let me know if thats your intentions. I can't watch a lot of goods shows and animes same for reading certain books simply because it affects me too much IRL from it.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Tragedy is a potent tool, and I can't promise that the story will never contain tragic occurrences — it already has — but in terms of story forms I'm more a fan of deconstruction-to-reconstruction stories. I have generally configured the world to support that kind of narrative.
*raises a hand*
- Location
- Italy
I'll admit they might be stronger than Vegeta/Trunks, but "as strong as Cell" it's clearly an exageration. I'd be surprised if they were, at most, 75% of his strenght. Probably less.
Also, i found this bit on the dragonball wiki about them, which surprised me quite a bit. i do follow the manga, but i must have missed this chapter
In the manga, after seemingly being killed by Gohan, the Cell Juniors managed to regenerate through their intact nuclei, and were tamed by Android 17 to defend Monster Island and not attack rangers.
siflux
Inveterate Lurker
- Location
- Living Inside the Internet
I'm in favor of pushing for SSJ2 not because I consider it particularly achievable, but because it's at least hypothetically in reach, Kakara knows it exists, and I consider the situation bad enough that fleeing for a training arc is unacceptable; losing is unacceptable; damn the consequences of success.
Regardless of what vote wins and what the rolls are, I'm confident things will continue to be worth reading. Refusing to cut losses here just seems like an in-character choice that I most want to read. If Kakara knows of other powerups that she could attempt in her current situation, going for one with a greater chance of success and lower cost for succeeding is a better choice.
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
- Location
- Something Clever
- Pronouns
- She/Her
...you sure about that
EllenTenshima
Tengu Mask
I'm reading through the front page looking for things. Is there more information other than the front page about Spirit Saiyan, SSJ2, Ki Control and how triggering the Enemy works?
siflux
Inveterate Lurker
- Location
- Living Inside the Internet
Kakara's expected cost of success for hitting SSJ2 under *any* circumstance is 'aliens attempt to destroy Garenhuld, along with all life remaining on it, and probably succeed'. If there are other powerups less likely to result in that which can be achieved right now, they should be attempted before SSJ2.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
You missed my point. Exiles are indoctrinated to think the SS2= the Enemy comes = Extinction which is why they try to kill them as fast as possble. So if we turn ss2 the exiles would think of us as a worse villain that Dandeer because every moment we are alive risks the death of our entire race and we did so for power. Which would turn us into a villain worse than Dandeer in the opinion of the exiles regardless of whether we control the transformation or not.
- Location
- Australia
We would do so to stop Dandeer from enslaving the entire Saiyan race forever. It would not be for personal reasons.
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
- Location
- Something Clever
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Ah, sorry, misread - thought you were saying that SSJ2 had a lower cost of succeeding. My bad on that one.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
Even if it is with good intentions, they would still consider the result worse than if we let Dandeer win and they would still try to put us down.