Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
eye lasers?
Dragon Ball: After the End
eye lasers?
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
We don't escape because there are 5 SSJs who will catch us again, not because we don't break free of these bindings at all. We're supposed to literally run interference between the Senjus and the other 5, not just sit here and assume they make it back before Dandeer orders an SSJ to catch them.
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
If we fire immediately, our PL is likely low enough we can't guarantee a kill, and we'd have to visibly power up.
And why can we achieve a guaranteed kill on Dandeer with 1 or more active and loyal SSJs on her side, when we ourselves will have to power up?
At least if we focus on running interference it makes more sense we could give them a chance to escape.
- Location
- canada
well we would have to power up anyway to free the senzus correct? Though I must admit she may not be able to do eyebeams.... but maybe we can just get barely enough movement to bite her throat out?
- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
Hey @PoptartProdigy is there any benefit to stalling if we go for the plan FutureKakara outlined? Or do we just wait until Dandeer's about to seal us and then break out regardless of how long her speech goes without much difference between the two. Because feeding into her ego by pretending our Hopeful Trait's inverted for the duration of the conversation because she's 'completely beaten us' might be a viable strategy there, especially if we feed her some useful information like the Jaron-suicide thing (which I kind of think we should mention anyway just in case if we do leave Jaron/Jaffur here). On the other hand, there's little to indicate to me that she won't just go 'Welp, Kakara's been broken. Might as well Seal her now. Gloating at her now would be like blasting a corpse some more.'
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I don't think it would hurt any, as long as you did it prior to being Sealed.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
The same reason Poptart said we don't immediately get taken down if we go and help the Senzus. They're not expecting a fight. If their reactions were good enough to stop that, we couldn't get away at all.
It would have to be a reason that didn't cast her in a negative light at all, since any hint of that will be eaten by their perception filters.
Hey @PoptartProdigy bit of a long shot, but assuming we get in a fight (running interference for the Senzus or otherwise), can we use this new information on how to break spells with Ki? We know that if you focus on the opposite of what the spell is trying to achieve conceptually it breaks the spell. What happens if we hit/laser the other SSJs and attempt to push our ki into them, focusing on just how much we hate Dandeer and why they should too?
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Kakara is actually uncertain of her ability to do that for another person, clever as the idea is.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
What about through Mind Projection?
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Filing under "worth having a go at, not something to be relied upon at all" then.
Wait.
What if we convinced Yammar to break the spell on him? We contact him with telepathy and say something like "Don't react to this message. Your mind has been tampered with. you can verify this in a completely safe fashion. Focus as hard as you can on the concept of hating Dandeer, and flare your Ki as hard as you can."
Yammar's a pragmatist who can't think of any reason to hate Dandeer, but there's no way this can backfire on him if we're lying.
We then tell him how to break free, and coordinate to break free at the same time.
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
A communication check, huh? She might manage that.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
If it works, we can even try it on the other SSJs. Just say it to all 4 at once, see who breaks free, and then immediately break free with Yammar. If we pass enough checks, we might even get to have a Round 2!
I suspect it's pretty unlikely we'll do that well, but it is a Comunication-based strategy...
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Probably not. It's still not her body, and being in someone's mind via Projection is not at all like being at the driver's seat.
Kakara is skeptical that the spell has a loophole like that, but she's also confident that if it doesn't, it'll be because it scrubs the memory of her even trying, so she feels safe in concluding that there's no risk in trying.
- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
Er, no risk as in no point, or no risk as in, can't backfire?
- Location
- Italy
Might work on Yammar, but the others are already completely sealed, so i don't think it would work with them. Still worth a try i guess.
Still, wouldn't Yammar immediately forget what we asked him, as the implication is that Dandeer did something to his mind, and that would make him hate her?
what i was thinking
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Er. She thinks that there's no risk. Risk being the odds of unhappy occurrences.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Hmmm.
Everything we know about how to counter Magic is in this quote:
Dandeer's spell prevents the victim removes any memories that would cause the victim to think anything bad about her. It might also prevent them from thinking badly of her at all, though that seems like it would be redundant (though we don't know if this would be more draining and possibly cause an issue with magic or not.)
If the spell scrubs the memory of our attempt, it is presumably because it causes the victim to think badly of Dandeer. Which means that they must pick up on the (admittedly obvious) implication that Dandeer has whammied them. So, can we come up with a phrasing that gets them to focus on the concept of hating Dandeer without giving them a reason to actually hate Dandeer, perhaps? It fails if the spell is intelligent to recognise us telling them to focus on hating Dandeer is as valid a target as us giving them a real reason to hate Dandeer - or magic is sufficient broadly-applying that it doesn't recognise the difference, which is fairly subtle.
She hasn't actually whammied them to hate us or anything as far as I know, so we might get away with something like:
"Don't react to this message. For reasons I can't explain due to Seer bullshit, I need you to flare your ki and focus upon a specific concept for me, that will dramatically improve this situation for all of us. You also need to not think about what the concept is or why you're doing it. Please, if you've ever trusted me, do this for me. The concept is hating Dandeer."
If they're willing to go along with it, then if there's any hint of a loophole in this spell it should work. If there isn't, then I'm really fucking impressed, because Dandeer's created a spell which once it has you in its grasp can't be broken except by another practitioner of magic. Which is entirely possible, given her status of Master Mind Sorcerer, but is still bloody insane.
If it doesn't work, we might manage it by trying again with them focusing on hating everyone around them individually? If they move onto hating Dandeer as part of a sequence of hating each other person present, it might not pick up on that?
@PoptartProdigy I don't suppose Dandelor's crash-course mentioned anything else relevant, at all? Even if we didn't have enough for nearly a full education, Future!Kakara explained this in four sentences - she was obviously going into detail for our exact situation, but Dandelor might have said something applicable in passing as he charged through his abridged syllabus?
...I'm really hoping this is workable, because a last-minute bullshit Communications victory would be incredibly apropos.
If it doesn't, we might be able to try pushing Ki into someone else on Yammar first. @PoptartProdigy are we touching him?
It should be noted that Yammar won a communications check against us a update or two ago. I dunno what modifiers he had since he hit like 140+ against us but a comm check might not be for the best against him. Then again we might just of rolled low and him high. Never really thought about it before, but man is it aggravating only getting the final tally when things are so mechanic heavy.
- Location
- Australia
You can ask Poptart to expound. He doesn't do it by default by he does if he's asked.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
Hm, we can be specific about who we talk to right now, yes? Talking to specifically the SSJs in the room at this range is child's play even for someone who hasn't learned telepathy past the basics.
On another note, Death's write-in is probably our best shot to get this to work. I mean, there's probably not much consequence to it not working since that just means we've lost a couple seconds of Dandeer's big speech and if they don't react then it's been erased from their heads, but we do have a time limit.
On another note, Death's write-in is probably our best shot to get this to work. I mean, there's probably not much consequence to it not working since that just means we've lost a couple seconds of Dandeer's big speech and if they don't react then it's been erased from their heads, but we do have a time limit.
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- Location
- Australia
Right, yeah.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Kakara is uncertain that any one thing will be enough. Perhaps a pattern would be enough for them to start picking up on it. Alternatively, it's possible that the mind-wipes will be more noticeable now that Yammar is out of combat.
That being said, Yammar didn't so much as twitch at the memories of the massacre. He didn't seem to even notice it. That is some crazy efficient work. It might take more than Kakara has time to try.
You are not in physical contact with Yammar.