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My man you read my mind.

Hm, now I'm wondering, CAN we train up our Style bonuses without any tutors? Everyone we know is about to be Dandeer's puppet or is dead. We might be forced to train up new skills. Though I imagine Combat Precog is going to synergize well with just about everything.
We can find other tutors if needed, hell we maybe able to ask the originators of the styles themselves for help.

Personally I'd rather create our own style, but that's just me.

Doubly so with seer powers.
Priority numero uno, now that we are not being held back by Mr "I'm so ****ing good I didn't even see my own mind rape coming!"
 
Jaffur's impressed even less.

His one note worthy achievement got him knocked out again. For a guy that was hyped up as the next best thing since sliced bread he was ****ing useless.

At least the Senzu did three useful things

1. Provide Beans
2. Provide Dandelor
3. Yell at Dandeer.
Jaffur was still a net positive for us, which is more than we can say about literally any of the other super saiyans.

But yeah, in terms of allies I would really like to look into getting a reliable ally other than Dandelor. Maybe the canon crew of 17 / 18 / buu will work, or Maya when she reaches a relevant power level, or someone we meet on a ghost adventure if we fail to come up with a better option.
 
My man you read my mind.

We can find other tutors if needed, hell we maybe able to ask the originators of the styles themselves for help.

Personally I'd rather create our own style, but that's just me.

Priority numero uno, now that we are not being held back by Mr "I'm so ****ing good I didn't even see my own mind rape coming!"

Huh, now, there's a thought. If we learn at least the basics from everybody, could we... recreate Cell Style or something? Or at least gain some kind of benefit? Or would we be spreading ourselves thin for no reason?
 
Not a dude, first off.

Second I said that I believe poptart wouldn't make it so rape magically solves all problems with no negative consequences. That would 100% make them a rape apologist, but because I don't think they are, they won't do that.
I think there might be a problem with this logic?

If I followed your argument correctly (I could be mistaken, of course) then the issue here is that if Jaron's psychological issues were not a side effect of the sealing but a side effect of it being applied wrong because of Jaffur, that would mean that said side effect could be resolved by applying more mind control and since you are using an interpretation of mind control = rape because it ignores consent, then it would be equivalent to have the issues that came from rape to be solved with more rape and thus someone who wrote something like that a rape apologist. Since we both trust poptart not to be that, that seems to indicate to you that the sealing must have side effects that can't be trivialy resolved by Dandeer.

However, that actually depends on the moral system and perspective you are using. I mean, even if we exclude "they lose their free will" from the definition of negative consecuences, that kind of reasoning indicates a moral system that says that rape is wrong because it causes a negative psychological impact on the victim rather than one that says that it is wrong because it is an act against the free will and identity of the victim. I understand that the issue is not that it is portrayed as a good thing since it isn't but that it seems to make light of the consequences of something equivalent to it... but from my perspective, the fact that they lose their free will is bad enough even without suicidal thoughts that even if she fixed it with more mind control, that would mean the situation and consequences are worse, not that they are making light of it.

If it were portrayed as a good thing then yes, you would be right but from the perspective of both the main character and the questers, even if Jaffur had been happy as Jaron, the sealing was wrong and equivalent to murder. Her mind control does not need to cause suicidal thoughts or have extra side-effects for the readers, author and characters to consider it wrong. The real issue that we are against is the mind control because it is mind control so saying that if it doesn't cause psychological issues it means that it implies it is ok is, to my understanding wrong since the main consecuence is still there.

Another way to look at it is that mind control could also be considered equal to murder since it destroys the person the victim was. In that case, just because the killer hid their tracks well and they suffer no consecuences from it it doesn't mean that the murder didn't happen or that the author who wrote that is a murder apologist. Neither is the case if the killer avoids the consequences of their actions with more murder; that still does not make them a murder apologist.

Now, considering that this is not the end of the quest and that we will still aim to bring her to justice, it doesn't seem to me that she got away scot free. She will still face the consequences once we free everyone and they will probably will still be traumatized once they are free so I wouldn't say that it magically solves all problems. It might solve Dandeer's problems until she is stopped but that doesn't mean that is the moral of the story.

Now, in relation to the statement that Poptart not being a rape apologist means that her thralls will develope suicidal thoughts, unless you are either saying that my perspective doesn't matter or that I am a rape apologist without knowing (which... fair enough, most people who are are probably out of ignorance) then there are perspectives which mean that her mind control could not cause such thoughts and the one who writes that still not be a rape apologist.
 
I have no idea. Not something that's cropped up.
I mean like where did poptart say that being killed by the enemy makes you not go to the afterlife? Because if death by the enemy results in non-existence, it makes little sense that we could wish Maron back with the dragonball's, wish Uub did.
 
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Jaffur was still a net positive for us, which is more than we can say about literally any of the other super saiyans.

But yeah, in terms of allies I would really like to look into getting a reliable ally other than Dandelor. Maybe the canon crew of 17 / 18 / buu will work, or Maya when she reaches a relevant power level, or someone we meet on a ghost adventure if we fail to come up with a better option.
I'd rather make our own Z fighters with people we recruit, but hey ho.

So long as we get a Sorcerer at least as good preferably better than Dandeer this will be worth it.

Huh, now, there's a thought. If we learn at least the basics from everybody, could we... recreate Cell Style or something? Or at least gain some kind of benefit? Or would we be spreading ourselves thin for no reason?
I dunno.

If it were a choice between seeing Cell, or seeing Hit all I know is what I'd pick.
 
Priority numero uno, now that we are not being held back by Mr "I'm so ****ing good I didn't even see my own mind rape coming!"

Not necessarily disagreeing, but I actually meant 'we can pastsight or whatever to see other people being taught'.

I mean like where did poptart say that being killed by the enemy makes you not go to the afterlife? Because if death by the enemy results in non-existence, it makes little sense that we could wish Maron back with the dragonball's, wish Uub did.

I put it in a spoiler labeled 'rp spoilers' because that is information that comes from the related RP run by The Fourth Monado.

Because Poptart is involved in that intimately, it is likely true here as well.
 
Man, if we were worried about Sorcerers never being trusted again before...
Lets put Dandelor at the front of the line to get pay back when time comes, that should help a bit.

Still I get the feeling we'll be dealing with the Saiyan people's mass trauma so maybe they'll be too busy to do that.

In fact that does bring up an interesting point, even if we had won then what?

I doubt Berra would have been in a fit state to rule, so would he have abdicated? Then who'd be in charge, Apra?

Not necessarily disagreeing, but I actually meant 'we can pastsight or whatever to see other people being taught'.
Well...that was one of the reasons why I wanted to train our seer powers to their fullest.

Just see how Hit learned how to Time Skip ect.
 
I'm hoping we can develop some pacifist style that works by locking up peoples Ki with pressure points and prevents them from moving. With that and seer power, when the time comes we can inform Dandeer that OMAE WO MO SHINDEIRU.
 
The Mafuba would probably be something good to learn if we can.
Get rid of one of the main problems with our pacifism.
 
Hey, hey I have a great idea! Okay, there's an AU character I have a reasonable degree of knowledge of, who possesses the ability to create strings that latch onto a person's very soul, giving the puppeteer the ability to completely control their body and energy, though they remain mentally unaffected beyond their reaction to what they're being made to do. It has the limiting factor of it not being all that hard to break the strings if you aren't strung up, and would probably require your powerlevel have a couple powers of ten on your target, but it would make defeating Dandeer trivial. Of course, it would be practically useless against anyone who could actually fight us, but anyone who has to use trickery? You're screwed. You know what they say about not being able to beat someone... learn a different version of their powers and kick them in the shin, destroying all their hopes and dreams and making them do it.
 
Hey, hey I have a great idea! Okay, there's an AU character I have a reasonable degree of knowledge of, who possesses the ability to create strings that latch onto a person's very soul, giving the puppeteer the ability to completely control their body and energy, though they remain mentally unaffected beyond their reaction to what they're being made to do. It has the limiting factor of it not being all that hard to break the strings if you aren't strung up, and would probably require your powerlevel have a couple powers of ten on your target, but it would make defeating Dandeer trivial. Of course, it would be practically useless against anyone who could actually fight us, but anyone who has to use trickery? You're screwed. You know what they say about not being able to beat someone... learn a different version of their powers and kick them in the shin, destroying all their hopes and dreams and making them do it.
Would that character exist here? If not, it might prove hard to learn.
 
AU of a different series, which also deals with a multiverse funnily enough, so no.

Seriously though. No adventuring unless to find Buu or the Androids (preferably Buu given he can likely break most spells over his knee) just train until our eyes bleed from the strain. I don't care if our Communication atrophies. It's frankly, way down my priority list.

Hm, does our physical body dying force our shade to pass on? Because if not, we can presumably simply train until our shade can bypass the whole intangible thing, and I doubt a decade won;t be enough to get some serious skill-ups.
 
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Just gonna say that i have no problem with the direction this story is taking and will be sticking around cause there were a lot of people in last section saying they were going to drop this.

Anyway I personally am advocating for following the plan right now, but if we don't end up following the plan the only viable option is pushing to SS2 if that's even possible.

As Poptart said we are going to get pretty sizable bonuses for following the plan because we saw the vision and I don't want to risk those so no going for Jaffur or anything just save the Senzus, get the misfits and then train out in the wider galaxy for a few years until we can stomp Dandeer into paste (maybe evolve the trait to allow killing in extreme circumstances but that's a pipe dream)
 
I say we take a decade, train until we can bitchslap 3 Super Saiyans ganging up on us, then crush Dandeer through sheer brute force. If we can't depend on people, then we go the Goku route. Everybody else is fodder meant to buy time for us to show up and beat the enemy's face in. We need to be strong enough that nobody else can stand up to us, because it is patently obvious that depending on the adults was a bad idea, and we should never do that again.

...It's starting to feel like this whole debacle is this Quest's A Savior's Unrepentant Gaze equivalent. It's going to completely change the dynamic of the voters. We're always going to question if these people have any idea what they're doing, because we have to assume they don't.
 
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I say we take a decade, train until we can bitchslap 3 Super Saiyans ganging up on us, then crush Dandeer through sheer brute force. If we can't depend on people, then we go the Goku route. Everybody else is fodder meant to buy time for us to show up and beat the enemy's face in. We need to be strong enough that nobody else can stand up to us, because it is patently obvious that depending on the adults was a bad idea, and we should never do that again.

...It's starting to feel like this whole debacle is this Quest's A Savior's Unrepentant Gaze equivalent. It's going to completely change the dynamic of the voters. We're always going to question if these people have any idea what they're doing, because we have to assume they don't.
Alright tone down the edge a bit, years of training votes over and over again will get boring. I say we explore the galaxy, browse the techniques available, meet up with the androids and have some fun beating up criminals, and work from there.
 
I say we take a decade, train until we can bitchslap 3 Super Saiyans ganging up on us, then crush Dandeer through sheer brute force. If we can't depend on people, then we go the Goku route. Everybody else is fodder meant to buy time for us to show up and beat the enemy's face in. We need to be strong enough that nobody else can stand up to us, because it is patently obvious that depending on the adults was a bad idea, and we should never do that again.

...It's starting to feel like this whole debacle is this Quest's A Savior's Unrepentant Gaze equivalent. It's going to completely change the dynamic of the voters. We're always going to question if these people have any idea what they're doing, because we have to assume they don't.
I'd rather not spend a decade, how about training until we're 16 or so.
 
I still think 'Bitchslap 3 SSJ' should still be our goal there. We need to be strong enough that every single SSJ we know of coming after us isn't an instant loss condition. Being able to take on at least half of them simultaneously is the minimum requirement there.

How long can we keep a Multiform clone up? Would it be possible to halve (or third) our power, go SS2, and then train with that power drop making it possible for three Kakaras to not snap the wards like a twig because of how much weaker than full power they'll be? We'd likely need Perfect Multiform, like Cell had, but it might be doable.
 
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I say we take a decade, train until we can bitchslap 3 Super Saiyans ganging up on us, then crush Dandeer through sheer brute force. If we can't depend on people, then we go the Goku route. Everybody else is fodder meant to buy time for us to show up and beat the enemy's face in. We need to be strong enough that nobody else can stand up to us, because it is patently obvious that depending on the adults was a bad idea, and we should never do that again.

...It's starting to feel like this whole debacle is this Quest's A Savior's Unrepentant Gaze equivalent. It's going to completely change the dynamic of the voters. We're always going to question if these people have any idea what they're doing, because we have to assume they don't.
We can do that already with, like, 2 minutes prep time. Probably way less, and it wouldn't even be a fight.
 
I still think 'Bitchslap 3 SSJ' should still be our goal there. We need to be strong enough that every single SSJ we know of coming after us isn't an instant loss condition. Being able to take on at least half of them simultaneously is the minimum requirement there.

How long can we keep a Multiform clone up? Would it be possible to halve (or third) our power, go SS2, and then train with that power drop making it possible for three Kakaras to not snap the wards like a twig?
Personaly I think we can rely on Maya and should focus on training her.
The Senzu's and misfits can come too, they make a decent back up force once we train them properly.
 
We can do that already with, like, 2 minutes prep time. Probably way less, and it wouldn't even be a fight.

Not with her horde of meat puppets on us we can't. What I meant was, even if Dandeer threw every Saiyan on the planet at us, it wouldn't matter because Kakara would mow them down anyway. Yammar's 'You're weak.' speech had a point. So we should get so strong that nobody can do anything to us without mind controlling us, which we're far too paranoid to ever allow at this point. If everybody's incompetent, do what Goku did. Get strong enough that even if you're the only one who can, you can contest the big bad.
 
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Not with her horde of meat puppets on us we can't. What I meant was, even if Dandeer threw every Saiyan on the planet at us, it wouldn't matter because Kakara would mow them down anyway. Yammar's 'You're weak.' speech had a point. So we should get so strong that nobody can do anything to us without mind controlling us, which we're far too paranoid to ever allow at this point. If everybody's incompetent, do what Goku did. Get strong enough that even if you're the only one who can, you can contest the big bad.
And how do you propose to do that while avoiding the enemy?
 
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