- Location
- Sweden, Europe, Earth, Sol
Dragon Ball: After the End
We have four more.
Also: well, Vegeta's dead. Jaffur is going to murder him for this.
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Kinruush
Who?
- Location
- USA
Eat it?
Watching this thread's decisions is becoming downright masochistic. About the most generous thing that can be said is that they are plausibly in-character for the impulsive tweenager.
Let's try for once, for variety, just for kicks, finally focusing on the simple, blindingly obvious choice. She still has four beans. Eat one.
Let's try for once, for variety, just for kicks, finally focusing on the simple, blindingly obvious choice. She still has four beans. Eat one.
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Sir LagsAlot
Yandere Dice Magnet
- Location
- In the fridge
This situation is actually kind of humorous when you think about it simply due to how horribly wrong it went. I mean just to line it all up VV just went through two back to back transformations, lost a limb, is under the effect of mind control, had to roll against our highest skill, orient himself and then line up the shot. And he had to do it all in the time it took us to wake up Jaffur which we seemed to have rolled poorly on as well which is what gave him the chance to even do any of this in the first place.
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-and yet he still succeeded, which should suggest something about the fundamental soundness of the strategy which was attempted.
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Sir LagsAlot
Yandere Dice Magnet
- Location
- In the fridge
It does but it doesn't mean I can't find it funny.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Nah, don't listen to the guy that suggested the strategy that got us into the superior position we were during the last update, that'd be silly. It's ridiculous to expect a high-variance strategy to turn out poorly.
attempts to suppress his own overpowering smugness
-or the one who came up with the opening power ball and original, functional telepathic countermeasures gambits. If those two are on the same page about something they should clearly both be ignored.
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Thinking about it, why isn't Vegeta having to deal with going into shock? Like, the stump he has should be incapacitating, like our chest is, or our tail grab on Dandeer.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The bean pouch is at Kakara's waist. Kakara felt a tugging at her waist, BEFORE Jaffur exploded into parricidal rage. The only thing he could possibly consider more important than parricidal rage right now is getting us a senzu bean. So it's either the beans, or the pouch with the beans, I'm almost sure of it. Though @Kinruush gets any credit for this observation.
...
Other good news: Dandeer is unconscious with a broken vertebra in her tail apparently (OUCH). Everyone who wanted Dandeer unconscious, BE HAPPY. She is now out of the picture.
Also, no calamitous spells appear to have been triggered by her passing out from the pain. Unless of course for some dumb reason Dandeer put a "buff Vegeta" spell contingency on herself that made him capable of ambushing us like this. Which would be darkly hilarious, even if I can't think of any plausible reason for her to do that in the first place unless, well, seer advance warning. Okay, that WOULD be hilarious
...
Other note: Kakara probably rolls with her base +44 willpower bonus. Translating those Willpower DCs, assuming that meeting the DC gives us the roll...
[ ] Force yourself to pay attention to the fight (Need 42 or higher on the die, 59% chance of success).
[ ] Force yourself to get up and seek medical attention. (Need 53 or higher on the die, 48% chance of success).
[ ] Force yourself to get up and rejoin the fight. (Need 88 or better on the die roll, 13% chance of success).
@PoptartProdigy , I ask this without salt, because I sincerely desire to know... was it difficult for him to do this? Did it require more than just a straight exercise in rolling the Ki Control vs. Ki Sense test you put in the invisitext?
Because if it's that easy to do, then if Kakara survives this she should look into doing it more often, because it's one hell of a killer app. And her ki control is probably as good as Lord Vegeta's, while most opponents have inferior ki sense to hers...
...
Also, everyone? This is our incentive to research Transcendence and break out to Elite Ki Sense. It's not just for the weird exotic powers. It's practical. Ki Sense is our "don't get ambushed" skill, and if our Ki Sense roll had beaten Lord Vegeta's Ki Control roll, we presumably would have avoided this particular zap. I don't know what the bonus differential is for Exceptional vs. Elite, but we only needed another +15 on the die roll here.
This assumption has been comprehensively disproven. That man's gotta be in a LOT of pain right now.
On the bright side, we just threw his dedicated counter-unit at him. I'm pretty sure Jaffur's got this.
If you'd had to ask, I'd have figured that feeding Jaffur a senzu bean would take LESS time than reliably stunning Berra in a safe manner and would make us LESS vulnerable to Lord Vegeta's "SNEAK ATTACK, BITCH!" special trait that he apparently has now. That's the reason I opposed it, because I thought something like this might happen to us, whereas, cards on table, I did NOT expect it to happen to us this time.
Hey, it more or less worked. It got Jaffur into the fight against his dad, didn't it? Now we just need to take a senzu bean ourselves and we're golden. Would have gone off flawlessly if Jaffur had just taken his medicine like a good little boy.
And hey, bonus point, Dandeer is unconscious now, so people can stop worrying about her somehow getting a spell off AND about spells triggering the moment she falls unconscious!
...
Other good news: Dandeer is unconscious with a broken vertebra in her tail apparently (OUCH). Everyone who wanted Dandeer unconscious, BE HAPPY. She is now out of the picture.
Also, no calamitous spells appear to have been triggered by her passing out from the pain. Unless of course for some dumb reason Dandeer put a "buff Vegeta" spell contingency on herself that made him capable of ambushing us like this. Which would be darkly hilarious, even if I can't think of any plausible reason for her to do that in the first place unless, well, seer advance warning. Okay, that WOULD be hilarious
...
Other note: Kakara probably rolls with her base +44 willpower bonus. Translating those Willpower DCs, assuming that meeting the DC gives us the roll...
[ ] Force yourself to pay attention to the fight (Need 42 or higher on the die, 59% chance of success).
[ ] Force yourself to get up and seek medical attention. (Need 53 or higher on the die, 48% chance of success).
[ ] Force yourself to get up and rejoin the fight. (Need 88 or better on the die roll, 13% chance of success).
Pretty much. Also, Lord Vegeta hid a ki attack from the greatest ki sensor known on the planet, while apparently keeping a low power level so we wouldn't notice him going gold.
@PoptartProdigy , I ask this without salt, because I sincerely desire to know... was it difficult for him to do this? Did it require more than just a straight exercise in rolling the Ki Control vs. Ki Sense test you put in the invisitext?
Because if it's that easy to do, then if Kakara survives this she should look into doing it more often, because it's one hell of a killer app. And her ki control is probably as good as Lord Vegeta's, while most opponents have inferior ki sense to hers...
...
Also, everyone? This is our incentive to research Transcendence and break out to Elite Ki Sense. It's not just for the weird exotic powers. It's practical. Ki Sense is our "don't get ambushed" skill, and if our Ki Sense roll had beaten Lord Vegeta's Ki Control roll, we presumably would have avoided this particular zap. I don't know what the bonus differential is for Exceptional vs. Elite, but we only needed another +15 on the die roll here.
To be fair, I think we tacitly assumed that Lord Vegeta was less badass than Berra in a fight. At least incrementally so
This assumption has been comprehensively disproven. That man's gotta be in a LOT of pain right now.
On the bright side, we just threw his dedicated counter-unit at him. I'm pretty sure Jaffur's got this.
Because it would have been very hard to do instantly and safely-without-killing-him.
If you'd had to ask, I'd have figured that feeding Jaffur a senzu bean would take LESS time than reliably stunning Berra in a safe manner and would make us LESS vulnerable to Lord Vegeta's "SNEAK ATTACK, BITCH!" special trait that he apparently has now. That's the reason I opposed it, because I thought something like this might happen to us, whereas, cards on table, I did NOT expect it to happen to us this time.
[smirks, spreads hands]
Hey, it more or less worked. It got Jaffur into the fight against his dad, didn't it? Now we just need to take a senzu bean ourselves and we're golden. Would have gone off flawlessly if Jaffur had just taken his medicine like a good little boy.
And hey, bonus point, Dandeer is unconscious now, so people can stop worrying about her somehow getting a spell off AND about spells triggering the moment she falls unconscious!
-because she has vastly more important things to do and that waste of precious time demonstrably would have been the final straw for a Bad End to the entire quest.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
It's possible (with the information now available to us, likely) that he trained his tail the same way we did.
This was on some level always about playing the odds: for something like this to happen, we had to take an improbably long time to get Jaffur a senzu bean due to him resisting, AND Lord Vegeta had to be in very firm control of himself despite the double-transformation, AND he had to have enough pain resistance to be able to function almost immediately after reverting to base form after the loss of his tail. The odds against all of those things being true at the same time? Well, you can say it was predictable, but I say we got unlucky.
Even then, I was honestly more worried about him just lobbing a blast in the general direction of the Senzus, which would probably have been even worse than doing this.
His namesake definitely needed a good looong moment to grit his teeth and keep fighting after Yajirobe cut it off. And Vegeta (as in the real one) had a trained tail, and still didn't try anything as finicky and precise as keeping his ki tightly controlled so he could prepare and line up an attack while playing possum within no more than a kilometer or two of the greatest ki sensor on the planet.
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Are you intentionally trying to irritate me?
@PoptartProdigy Curiousity begs: Did the cookies and [Sizing up an opponent], [Supporting magical allies], and [DOOOOOOOOOOOOODGE!] omake bonuses not apply, or were they added and not enough, and the post with them not been updated yet?
Sir LagsAlot
Yandere Dice Magnet
- Location
- In the fridge
I mean odds are if this is how badly waking up Jaffur went knocking out dad and then waking up Jaffur would have went even worse like not even waking up Jaffur and Kakara biting the dust anyways bad.
I would guess that either the mind control has something to do with it or that he's under gone pain tolerance training. Although the wound should have lowered his power level as well if he didn't have anything on hand to heal it with.
I still assume VV is a worse fighter then Berra simply because he's had less time to train although he does seem to have either vastly greater pain tolerance or willpower. Also Jaffur is still young and hasn't had all that much time to train in comparison to his father so I'm not 100% confident he can defeat him although I do think his chance are pretty good.
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Sir LagsAlot
Yandere Dice Magnet
- Location
- In the fridge
...This is a very good question if this was real life I'd put it down to panic or stress in a high stakes combat situation but seeing as this is a quest I would have to assume we fumbled a roll or that it wouldn't make a real difference.
Vegeta lost his grandfather to the surprise opening of a mass Super Saiyan rebellion which he and his father put down using guerilla tactics and which ultimately resulted in the most traumatic moment of his entire life.
Of course he trained his tail. Of course he trained asymmetric tactics.
Of course he trained his tail. Of course he trained asymmetric tactics.
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Well, there's that, and also... why bother waiting for Jaffur to swallow it? Just force it down his throat, paste it with Ki TK if necessary for its effects.
Sir LagsAlot
Yandere Dice Magnet
- Location
- In the fridge
I'm gonna have to go with the same statment I made before real life I'd just attribute it to accident in a quest probably a poor roll.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Well, in the future we're definitely going to have to specify exactly how she does things.
Sir LagsAlot
Yandere Dice Magnet
- Location
- In the fridge
It might help it might not being overly specific has bit us in the ass before.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Tell you what, why don't we stick to a Nice Orderly Smug-tegic Arms Limitation Treaty. We'll call it... No-SALT. Better for everyone; low sodium is good for the blood pressure.
I won't deploy smug indifference to bad news I honestly think we can recover from.
In exchange, how about i]you[/i] agree not to deploy smugness that you turned out to be right because of multiple factors you didn't know about in advance? I mean, I freely admit, they were all things that we knew were possible as opposed to impossible. And your plan did make more allowances against the specific uncertainties that turned out to matter, and for all we know there wouldn't have been any other uncertainties or unknowns popping up to screw your plan over. You were, in fact, correct.
But let's agree to keep the smugness off the table, because otherwise everyone ends up unhappy.
Let "X" be a character at the time of the Sealing, and "X+5" be that same character's fighting power at the present time.
Jaffur was training specifically to kill Vegeta, prior to the Sealing. That was his one goal in life. Using the skills he developed for this purpose, he was able to defeat Berra during the Sealing, despite Berra having a very different stylistic and tactical focus than Vegeta (melee and instant transmission instead of ranged Vegeta Style blast combat).
This suggests that Jaffur's fighting ability (combination of power level, techniques, et cetera) was at least comparable to or approaching that of Berra. In what was for them a protracted battle, so not just a lucky shot on Jaffur's part.
Now, Jaffur+5 has trained inside Jaffur's mind, and quite effectively if his ability to go FPSS is any guide. Jaffur+5 has almost certainly come MUCH farther in the past five years than Berra+5 has. I would now bet on Jaffur+5 being Berra+5's equal.
If you're correct in thinking that Vegeta+5 is weaker than Berra+5 (because of Vegeta not having trained in the intervening five years, if nothing else)... then if Jaffur+5 can hold his own against Berra+5, as seems likely, then I would bet on Jaffur+5 having the upper hand against Vegeta, or at a bare, pitiful minimum, being able to hold his own.
Furthermore, Jaffur doesn't actually have to win this. He just has to hold his own long enough for Dandelor to cast the mind control breaking spell twice. Or possibly once. He's in exactly the same position we would have been in under your plan, and while he doesn't have the massive advantage of a Dandeer-flail (which we would have had under your plan), he's a much more skillful fighter to begin with.
...Yeah.
Poptart doesn't tend to smile upon votes where we try to optimize exactly how we best make use of our abilities. So the game is set up such that we have to trust them to have Kakara make best use of her abilities, which, uh... eeeeeh, sometimes.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
So that's a yes. Noted.
You will note that I did not quote anyone (e: Who had voted for the winning vote, that is.) in my smugness, nor did I refer directly or obliquely to anything anyone said.
On the other hand, you directly quoted me and attempted to get under my skin. Well done, you succeeded. I hope it makes you feel better.