I may be camping the thread.
I'll chime in that clicking the quote link left me thinking that the staff has decided to sandbag me with yet another hypocritical iteration of the constantly expanding rules and interpretations for a moment...
Dragon Ball: After the End
I'll chime in that clicking the quote link left me thinking that the staff has decided to sandbag me with yet another hypocritical iteration of the constantly expanding rules and interpretations for a moment...
- Location
- Australia
@PoptartProdigy, can we knock out Vegeta and Dandeer simultaneously by knocking their heads together?
I mean, I think beating up Vegeta will probably allow the Senzus to heal Jaffur himself.
I'm not Poptart, but a problem with this will be that the force required to knock out Vegeta will kill Dandeer, and any impact that's not powerful enough to kill Dandeer will barely tickle Vegeta.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
If you must provoke the staff like that, please do it somewhere where I won't be in the blast radius.
Theoretically. Speaking from experience, though, if you can execute that maneuver without being sucker-punched, you really don't need to do it.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I am extremely paranoid about Dandeer having dead man switches for her being knocked unconscious or killed -- that is, very much, something that she would reasonably do.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Put this way. The sequence of events is:
1) Bring down Berra
2) IT to Jaffur
3) Grab him and IT to the Senzus, drop him off.
4) Attack Lord Vegeta.
Lord Vegeta has a VERY narrow window of opportunity here.
As of the split second of time at which Berra goes down, Lord Vegeta is only almost finished transforming back from oozaru state. He is in agony from having his tail blown off by Berra. He is at 1/3 of our power level for at least a few seconds while he powers up. We are very likely to get to Step 3 of our plan before he can react.
Once we get there, he can't blast the Senzus while we're holding Dandeer and in the midst of the Senzus, because Dandeer will get vaporized by any blast strong enough to do more than mildly inconvenience the likes of Raditz or Betarel or for that matter Dandelor who presumably has some shields of his own up. From there, we jump immediately to the Senzus
Yes, this is a much more probable contingency than her having a contingency spell for "in case I'm ever within X meters of Jaffur." Because ALL the evidence at our disposal suggests that while she planned for an attempt by the royals to overthrow her (by preparing to mind-control three of the five active royals), she did not at ALL plan for Jaffur unsealing himself, or for us breaking the seal. If she had suspected at any time that that was even possible, she could have taken considerable steps to 'fix' the problem, not least among them making alterations to Jaffur's seal as it already existed.
Dandeer is quite likely to have contingencies up in case anyone knocks her out or kills her. Not so likely to have contingencies up to deal with her son (who she doesn't even know is a sorceror, let alone one whose mind is awake and active locked away inside Jaron's head).
This doesn't seem complicated. End Berra, knock out Vegeta, and that leaves Yammar fighting 2-on-1 with a severe tactical restriction as the Senzus are wide open to get Jaffur back on his feet while Dandelor casts on Yammar, at which point this whole thing is over one way or another.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
@PoptartProdigy
Here are all my write-ins. There's a recurring variation in which we actually SAY 'sorry' to Berra before having Dandelor trigger the spell. I don't know how or if you want to handle that.
There's a variant for "take Jaffur to the Senzus and drop off Dandeer with them so THEY have a saiyan shield discouraging Vegeta or Yammar from blasting them, something they arguably need more than us.
There's a variant for "knock Dad out to spare him the pain."
[] ...you need to even the numbers. Say "Sorry, Dad." to your father, then telepathically say "Do it." to Dandelor.
-[] Vegeta is getting back into base form, which puts him back in the fight. Wielding Dandeer against him like you did to Dad should work just as well, and you can't leave him unaddressed.
[] ...you need to even the numbers. Sorry, Dad. "Dandelor, do it."
-[] The Senzus have a better shot at Jaffur now, but there are still three -- soon to be four -- super saiyans shooting up the place. Use Dandeer as a saiyan shield to cover you while you run to get Jaffur to the Senzus.
-[] After you get Jaffur to the Senzus, drop Dandeer among them, where Dandelor and the others can restrain her. That way THEY have a saiyan shield.
[] ...you need to even the numbers. Say "Sorry, Dad." to your father, then telepathically say "Do it." to Dandelor.
-[] Try to knock your father out quickly, to spare him further pain.
Here are all my write-ins. There's a recurring variation in which we actually SAY 'sorry' to Berra before having Dandelor trigger the spell. I don't know how or if you want to handle that.
There's a variant for "take Jaffur to the Senzus and drop off Dandeer with them so THEY have a saiyan shield discouraging Vegeta or Yammar from blasting them, something they arguably need more than us.
There's a variant for "knock Dad out to spare him the pain."
[] ...you need to even the numbers. Say "Sorry, Dad." to your father, then telepathically say "Do it." to Dandelor.
-[] Vegeta is getting back into base form, which puts him back in the fight. Wielding Dandeer against him like you did to Dad should work just as well, and you can't leave him unaddressed.
[] ...you need to even the numbers. Sorry, Dad. "Dandelor, do it."
-[] The Senzus have a better shot at Jaffur now, but there are still three -- soon to be four -- super saiyans shooting up the place. Use Dandeer as a saiyan shield to cover you while you run to get Jaffur to the Senzus.
-[] After you get Jaffur to the Senzus, drop Dandeer among them, where Dandelor and the others can restrain her. That way THEY have a saiyan shield.
[] ...you need to even the numbers. Say "Sorry, Dad." to your father, then telepathically say "Do it." to Dandelor.
-[] Try to knock your father out quickly, to spare him further pain.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Yeah, really. No need to overcomplicate things.
e: I think it's actively reducing our chances at coming out of this in any condition remotely approaching okay for Kakara to do otherwise, in fact.
If there's even a 10% chance (and I believe it to be substantially higher, but I'm being generous here) that knocking Berra out -- or going to revive Jaffur -- would leave the Senzu at Vegeta's mercy, then I think that Kakara and the rest of us would thoroughly regret doing anything but the quickest end to this charade. We really can't afford to give them time.
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I dunno. Shouldn't we have Apra decoy Yammar while the Senzus choreograph a song and dance routine so Kakara won't have to split her attention between IT and hauling involuntary cargo like she was already able to at age 8? I mean, fractions of a second count, but we don't want Kakara the prodigy to do all of the extremely basic work herself when we could waste precious seconds offloading it to vastly inferior subordinates.
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- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Enough.
It's important to note that of the three main options being considered (Vegeta, Yammar or Jaffur), all three would have the exact same end result if successful: Giving our side the advantage in Super Saiyans, either 3-2 or 2-1. Due to this, the only real consideration here is which of the three is more likely to succeed, so let's look at all three in that light.
At the start of the next update, Kakara will have a very brief window of time to act completely unopposed. She could use it to go after Vegeta, but we know that this will likely end up in us using Dandeer against him in the same way we did against Berra, meaning a relatively extended fight, not a straight knockout. We could vote to drop Dandeer and go for that knockout blow, but this comes with obvious risks. If we do end up in that extended fight with Vegeta, we'd have the clear advantage due to Dandeer-flail and would likely win given time, but there is the strong possibility of Yammar defeating Apra and double teaming us before we take out Vegeta. So, not a guaranteed success.
We could go after Yammar and try to maneuver him into one of Apra's attacks with the Dandeer-flail. Given enough time, the two of us working together in this way would definitely take him out, but the problem is we'd only have a second or two before Vegeta comes into play, so we'd have to get it right on the first attempt. This means a roll, so, definitely not a guaranteed success.
Finally, we could try to heal Jaffur. Now, Poptart has told us that Kakara is carrying Senzu beans on her, which means all we need to do is IT over to him, and feed him a bean. This should easily be doable in the short window of time we have to act and, most importantly, doesn't have Kakara acting against any opponent so doesn't come at the mercy of a dice roll or lead to an extended fight. It's as close to a sure thing as we could possibly hope for. Once Jaffur is back up, our victory looks pretty assured. We'd have three Super Saiyans to two, and Dandeer is currently our hostage and unable to influence the fight, while Dandelor is very much still active.
Plus, long-term, aside from any tactical considerations here, I can't imagine it will do wonders for Jaffur's mental state if we end up winning the fight essentially on our own while he lays unconscious and useless in a crater. The kid's been helpless and trapped for years. He needs to contribute something meaningful to stopping the woman who's responsible for all his suffering, not see himself as the damsel that always needs to be rescued.
Time to wake Jaffur up.
At the start of the next update, Kakara will have a very brief window of time to act completely unopposed. She could use it to go after Vegeta, but we know that this will likely end up in us using Dandeer against him in the same way we did against Berra, meaning a relatively extended fight, not a straight knockout. We could vote to drop Dandeer and go for that knockout blow, but this comes with obvious risks. If we do end up in that extended fight with Vegeta, we'd have the clear advantage due to Dandeer-flail and would likely win given time, but there is the strong possibility of Yammar defeating Apra and double teaming us before we take out Vegeta. So, not a guaranteed success.
We could go after Yammar and try to maneuver him into one of Apra's attacks with the Dandeer-flail. Given enough time, the two of us working together in this way would definitely take him out, but the problem is we'd only have a second or two before Vegeta comes into play, so we'd have to get it right on the first attempt. This means a roll, so, definitely not a guaranteed success.
Finally, we could try to heal Jaffur. Now, Poptart has told us that Kakara is carrying Senzu beans on her, which means all we need to do is IT over to him, and feed him a bean. This should easily be doable in the short window of time we have to act and, most importantly, doesn't have Kakara acting against any opponent so doesn't come at the mercy of a dice roll or lead to an extended fight. It's as close to a sure thing as we could possibly hope for. Once Jaffur is back up, our victory looks pretty assured. We'd have three Super Saiyans to two, and Dandeer is currently our hostage and unable to influence the fight, while Dandelor is very much still active.
Plus, long-term, aside from any tactical considerations here, I can't imagine it will do wonders for Jaffur's mental state if we end up winning the fight essentially on our own while he lays unconscious and useless in a crater. The kid's been helpless and trapped for years. He needs to contribute something meaningful to stopping the woman who's responsible for all his suffering, not see himself as the damsel that always needs to be rescued.
Time to wake Jaffur up.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
question, could we do something like a gut wound that would kill Dandeer within a few hours without medical attention? The goal not being to kill her but to make her survival dependant on medical care in order to change the priorities from implanted commands.
Sir LagsAlot
Yandere Dice Magnet
- Location
- In the fridge
I'm going to reiterate my suggestion of just telling the Senzus to grab Jaffur well we handle Vegeta here.
[ ] ...you need to even the numbers. Sorry, Dad. "Dandelor, do it."
-[ ] "I will take care of Vegeta."
-[ ] Tell the Senzus to get over to Jaffur and wake him up.
It'd probably play out with Dandelor knocking out our dad, Kakara knocking out Vegeta, Dandelor focusing on dispelling the mind control on Yammar and the Senzus popping a senzu bean on Jaffur.
[ ] ...you need to even the numbers. Sorry, Dad. "Dandelor, do it."
-[ ] "I will take care of Vegeta."
-[ ] Tell the Senzus to get over to Jaffur and wake him up.
It'd probably play out with Dandelor knocking out our dad, Kakara knocking out Vegeta, Dandelor focusing on dispelling the mind control on Yammar and the Senzus popping a senzu bean on Jaffur.
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Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
aren't they already doing that?
Sir LagsAlot
Yandere Dice Magnet
- Location
- In the fridge
I don't think so I mean I haven't seen it mentioned but let me go double check that. And if it hasn't been stated in story I personally don't feel like leaving it up to chance that the Senzus will go heal Jaffur with a senzu bean.
The Senzus have remained in the same position since they entered the fight although one of them did scream out in concern for Jaffur so just going off of prescient it doesn't appear that they'll attempt to revive Jaffur without being ordered.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
@PoptartProdigy
I'd like to suggest one more write-in:
[] ...you need to even the numbers. Sorry, Dad. "Dandelor, do it."
-[] Teleport to Jaffur and feed him a senzu bean.
2) All our opponents have to do to neutralize this plan is to take senzu beans from the Senzus' cold, dead hands and feed one to her. It'd be appalling viciousness and serve no useful purpose.
I'd like to suggest one more write-in:
[] ...you need to even the numbers. Sorry, Dad. "Dandelor, do it."
-[] Teleport to Jaffur and feed him a senzu bean.
1) I do NOT want to see the trait Kakara would pick up from doing something like that.
2) All our opponents have to do to neutralize this plan is to take senzu beans from the Senzus' cold, dead hands and feed one to her. It'd be appalling viciousness and serve no useful purpose.
They're not running out onto a field where super-saiyans are fighting without some reasonable degree of certainty that they won't just get splattered by the crossfire.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
Do take into consideration that the Senzu operate on a lower power level than us so talking to them is a lot slower than the rest of our actions so whatever you say it should be as brief as possible. "I will handle Vegeta" is not information they need to be told todo whatever we want them to do.
Sir LagsAlot
Yandere Dice Magnet
- Location
- In the fridge
At this point in the fight the risk of one of them being blasted by a stray shot from one of the fights is minimal due to the fact that we'll be knocking out our dad, Vegeta is still transforming and will be engaged in melee combat by us and Yammar is currently engaged in melee combat as well.
No slower then telling Dandelor to knock out our dad really and we can pretty easily drop a little one line order for him to tell the Senzus to revive Jaffur after we tell him to knock out our dad. Not to mention the fact that it's possible for Kakara to both talk and act simultaneously they aren't mutually exclusive things so we could relay this additional one line order to Dandelor well on our way to knock out Vegeta. Also "I will handle Vegeta" was a suggested combination of giving Kakara a new target well simultaneously telling Dandelor to focus on Yammar.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The thing is, they're also not fast enough to perceive what's going on clearly; the fight is a mass of blurs and golden shock waves to the. They can't follow the attacks. So unless we specifically coordinate with them, they won't know what to do.
Moreover, since we have a senzu bean ourselves, we can get to Jaffur and heal him very quickly, faster than any of the Senzus themselves can, and probably while Vegeta is still reorienting himself from being forcibly transformed twice in a matter of minutes and losing a limb.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
2) feed one to the sorceror we are willing to use as a human flail while trying their best to not worsen her condition?
1) I vote we call it "Peace Through Power"
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Regrettably, trait names do not get votes, and I would call it, "sociopath."
Sir LagsAlot
Yandere Dice Magnet
- Location
- In the fridge
I like your idea but I don't like the potential risk it puts the Senzus in or the fact that it leaves our grandmother to fight longer and that it'll give Vegeta more time to collect himself before we fight although that's probably off set by the fact that we'll have Jaffur helping us.
Hm, overall if no one is willing to send the Senzus to revive Jaffur I think I'll just vote to knock out our dad, go for Vegeta and then Yammar.
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Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
That'd be innaccurate, we do care about others very much and our motive for it would be to end the fight quickly with as little loss of life as possible, hell given that their continued fighting would itself risk dandeer dying we might even be able to talk them into powering down with the promise of giving her medical treatment.
- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
Kakara had a sufficiently hard time with the idea of standing by while Jaffur killed her that Jaffur wound up hesitating from feeling it across the link.
Now you propose as part of 'caring about people' we use weaponized maiming as an emotional bludgeon- and then tell the QM they're wrong in their assessment of the character who would do such a thing, rather than accepting the implicit warning.