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I can't believe that worked.

@PoptartProdigy what kind of pain failsafe are we talking about here? The kind in which breaking the spell is incredibly painful but it will fade after a while or the kind in which breaking the spell activates a pain spell which has to be broken later? Main concern is whether we can suffer a cruciatus scenario.

Also, since Yammar trained his pain tolerance to fight Dazarel, he probably is the one other royal with a trained tail.
 
It's hard to tell. There aren't any obvious WoG statements about the possibility, though my personal suspicion says that it might require at least some active defense which could help.
Also, Berra and Yammar are known to have Mind Delve, which appears to be the active skill used to defend the mind against ki-based and psi-based (possibly not magic-based) attacks. I don't know about Lord Vegeta, but it seems a safe bet that he has it too.

I am not particularily convinced that we need everyone we have available to incapacitate Dandeer though, so I suspect we might have at least some opportunity for trying something with a minimal opportunity cost.
I'd rather not screw around with something I know is working in this battle. We've got enough stuff going wrong that one of the few things we know is going right (keeping Dandeer locked down and unable to concentrate) is valuable. MAYBE we could do some kind of finely calculated gambit that would be superior to the already-good outcome we have, but that's generally not a good way to fight a war. If you have a good outcome, you roll with it, exploit it, and move on to the next problem. The perfect is the enemy of the good.

I'm fairly certain that Poptart has a handle on what's a Kakara thing to do. :p

Seems like a pointless breach of OPSEC when we really need to not.
I respect this, but I wanted to at least write and suggest the idea. Having Kakara say "I'm sorry" the moment before Berra suffers terrible pain even as the mind control snaps is something that she might or might not do. Some of us might want to take Kakara's character in that direction, especially with a family member or loved one, because we already see her developing some calluses on her sense of willingness to inflict pain on loved ones and that can go ugly places.

I'm not saying it's absolutely and unambiguously the right thing to do. But it's at least something that belongs on our list of things we MIGHT want to do.

[Also, I'm not sure what Berra could do in reaction to our "I'm sorry" without time to think and/or already knowing how the mind control spell on him works, which it seems likely that he does not. He's smart, but that's just ridiculous. Then again, you're not wrong to at least worry about Berra getting clued in and somehow negating what we want to do]

The problem with this one is the same that you mentioned above; it leaves Vegeta free to blast the Senzu.
We can do it in the time it takes us to IT twice. After that, Vegeta can't throw blasts at the Senzus because Dandeer is among the Senzus. Furthermore, it is fairly likely that Vegeta will need at least that much time to orient, understand what's going on, and power up enough to be capable of throwing a blast at the Senzus that we couldn't just deflect.

I'm not saying it's literally zero risk, NONE of our options is zero-risk, but I deem the risks low enough and the rewards high enough to be willing to support it under approval voting. Getting Jaffur back in the fight would really help, not least because he's going to feel a BAD case of "damsel in distress" syndrome after all this is over if he never gets to punch anybody.
 
This fight from Bara's perspective. Dandeer has sealed away all the reasons that he should not be on her side.
Berra's internal monologue probably includes a lot of sentence fragments that end in-

THUMP

Never mind that! You have to stop Jaffur and the Senzus from killing Dandeer! You don't know how they convinced Mom and Kakara to go along with this, but it has to stop NOW.

[paragraph of events, ending in cognitive dissonance-]

THUMP

Never mind that! You have to stop Jaffur and the Senzus from killing Dandeer! You don't know how they convinced Mom and Kakara to go along with this, but it has to stop NOW.

I can't believe that worked.

@PoptartProdigy what kind of pain failsafe are we talking about here? The kind in which breaking the spell is incredibly painful but it will fade after a while or the kind in which breaking the spell activates a pain spell which has to be broken later? Main concern is whether we can suffer a cruciatus scenario.
I'm pretty sure we don't know. Hopefully with Jaffur providing raw power and Dandelor providing the skill, we can break the pain spell later.

(EDIT: And by 'later' I mean 'hopefully minutes from now after we've got the battlefield under control')
 
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I'm almost sure Kakara doesn't know. She might want to ask Dandelor before making a decision, but the way things are structured I'm not sure we'll find out the answer before the vote. :(
 
I think Jaron's going to be the one to wake up, just because this day has been going so bad and that's the only way I can see it getting worse from here on out.
 
@PoptartProdigy , I had a thought.

... Is Kakara not carrying senzu beans herself, and if not, why not? The Senzus themselves have, you have informed us, more of the things than they know what to do with. It would be considerably easier for Kakara to heal Jaffur, or for that matter herself if she suffers any serious injury, if she had some on her person. It would seem a reasonable precaution even given how well the conspiracy expected this phase of the plan to go.
Y'know, that's a good point, and I simply hadn't considered it. In retrospect, though, it's the obvious thing for her and the Senzus to have done, so I'll add them to her inventory. You have five, in a pouch at your waist.
Given Poptart's recent clarification that if we bring Dandeer with us, we should be able to use that to attack Lord Vegeta more directly to greater effect than would otherwise be possible. I'm a bit vague on how that works physically but if Poptart says it can, then we can, and my write-in may well be strictly inferior to the stock option. Wanted to mention it anyway.
It's a bit cumbersome, but fighting Berra indicates that swinging Dandeer as a club is a massive disadvantage for one of her thralls to have to handle. Kakara can easily imagine swinging, and then kicking into the ensuing opening. Or, failing that, letting go with one hand for a moment to punch or fire a point-blank Dodonpa.
@PoptartProdigy what kind of pain failsafe are we talking about here? The kind in which breaking the spell is incredibly painful but it will fade after a while or the kind in which breaking the spell activates a pain spell which has to be broken later? Main concern is whether we can suffer a cruciatus scenario.

Okay, just to clarify since I'm not sure due to the vagueness of English. Is it permanent?
For now, all you have is what Dandelor communicated to you. If you absolutely need more information, you can write in asking Dandelor before you act. The ensuing update would be short, but you'd get the info.
Also, Berra and Yammar are known to have Mind Delve, which appears to be the active skill used to defend the mind against ki-based and psi-based (possibly not magic-based) attacks.
One of, yes.
 
It's a bit cumbersome, but fighting Berra indicates that swinging Dandeer as a club is a massive disadvantage for one of her thralls to have to handle. Kakara can easily imagine swinging, and then kicking into the ensuing opening. Or, failing that, letting go with one hand for a moment to punch or fire a point-blank Dodonpa.
I mean...whatever the mind control she's very unlikely to have envisioned being used as a blunt instrument against her thralls, so yeah...logic error in protecting her from harm via means that WILL harm her
 
Yeah, writing in asking if it's permanent. Because if it isn't, it's gonna suck but he'd understand and we can deal with it. If it doesn't, we are effectively down one Super Saiyan and our people's leader, and we can't afford either one at this junction.
 
Even if it was permanent we would be able to get rid of it after even if we have to spirt saiyan to get enough juice.
 
...I don't think it's wise to bring Dandeer near Jaffur.

e: To be clear, she's had the past seven years to layer enchantments on him, I don't trust it.
 
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She is "thoroughly disabled." We have a superheroic grip on her tail- which is AGONY for saiyans- and she's been shaken like a terrier shakes a rat at this point. Several powerful saiyan warriors are using their ki to project distracting telepathic screams into her head.

In terms of her ability to concentrate and focus, Dandeer may be more comprehensively impaired in this battle than any other magician in Dragonball history.

I'm not absolutely sure that she's totally helpless, but the combined probability of:
1) Dandeer is functional enough to cast spells, AND
2) Dandeer has precautionary spells on Jaffur, given that she never expected or wanted Jaffur to come out of the seal, and has never actually had a chance to work on Jaffur's physical body with magic (as distinct from Jaron's, given how seals seem to work)...

Well, I think we can afford to take the risk in order to senzu-bean Jaffur.
 
Alright, folks, I will open the vote up tomorrow morning. Tag me with your write-in suggestions if you want them featured in the unlock, if you haven't already. I mean, if you see this post before I open, go ahead and do it again anyway just in case, but I'll take a look through the thread regardless.
and she's been shaken like a terrier shakes a rat at this point.
Worth pointing out that that effect was intentional on Kakara's part. It's extremely disorienting. :D
 
She is "thoroughly disabled." We have a superheroic grip on her tail- which is AGONY for saiyans- and she's been shaken like a terrier shakes a rat at this point. Several powerful saiyan warriors are using their ki to project distracting telepathic screams into her head.

In terms of her ability to concentrate and focus, Dandeer may be more comprehensively impaired in this battle than any other magician in Dragonball history.

I'm not absolutely sure that she's totally helpless, but the combined probability of:
1) Dandeer is functional enough to cast spells, AND
2) Dandeer has precautionary spells on Jaffur, given that she never expected or wanted Jaffur to come out of the seal, and has never actually had a chance to work on Jaffur's physical body with magic (as distinct from Jaron's, given how seals seem to work)...

Well, I think we can afford to take the risk in order to senzu-bean Jaffur.
Doesn't stop contingencies.

She was prepared for this instant: I'd give her the Mad Eye Moody treatment with regard to paranoia.
 
I just thought of something.
Dandeer is bad at social stuff, unless it involves mind control.
I think she rewrote her own memories of the night before the sealing.
 
Doesn't stop contingencies.

She was prepared for this instant: I'd give her the Mad Eye Moody treatment with regard to paranoia.
If she had I would have expected them to kick on on by now. This is a very edge case to prepare for and contingencies for it would be likely to trigger accidentally.
 
Here's another concern: Can we be sure that Jaffur wouldn't kill Vegeta? It's what he trained his whole life for, and it would make the aftermath of this... more convenient.
 
This plan has potential and I approve of it. It brings the numbers situation decisively into our favor, knocking out one opponent and healing one ally. Moreover, with Berra out of the picture we have ascendancy in the 'strong warrior' category because the competition for world's strongest fighter is firmly between Jaffur and Berra at this point. Even if Yammar overpowers Apra in this round (possible), we're still probably okay at this point.
I think a problem with this plan is that it leaves Vegeta unattended and possibly allows him to attack Dandelor. Now that we know Dandelor can quickly break the spell, he's out

Then again, given that he's still in base, even though he's far faster than the Senzus, he's still slower than we are, so we can probably drop off Jaffur and IT back to fight him before he gets to do anything.

He'll probably transform before we manage to fight him, though.
 
Honestly, I don't really think reviving Jaffur mid-fight is worth our time. It's been confirmed that we can take Vegeta out quickly, and that Dandeer serves as an effective-debuff to her thralls, so we'd be able to hold out for long enough against Yammar for Dandelor to disable him, too.
 
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