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Dragon Ball: After the End

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Lailoken said:
. If she's getting fed by a seer there is a good chance that the call is coming from inside the house
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So are you assuming that Sensei's Ki Control is so good he can hide his ki from Kakara, despite her amazing detection ability (and the fact that he's trained so little his power level doesn't even reach six digits) or that Kakara would just not notice his presence, despite being acutely aware of every insect on a mountain while blinded by emotions?

There's no chance that Sensei is here. He's a hermit. If Dandeer could create some sort of spell that would let him 'see' out to telepath with no one else able to 'see' in, she'd also be able to set up a magic channel for telepathy that she could activate to bypass the Wards.

Besides, given the time frame involved, Sensei would have had to be in the Hall since before we arrived...and I doubt he's quite that subverted.

I'd lay 4:1 odds that Sensei is at one of his normal haunts, unless the Conspiracy placed him elsewhere.
 
KaintukeeBob said:
So are you assuming that Sensei's Ki Control is so good he can hide his ki from Kakara, despite her amazing detection ability (and the fact that he's trained so little his power level doesn't even reach six digits) or that Kakara would just not notice his presence, despite being acutely aware of every insect on a mountain while blinded by emotions?

There's no chance that Sensei is here. He's a hermit. If Dandeer could create some sort of spell that would let him 'see' out to telepath with no one else able to 'see' in, she'd also be able to set up a magic channel for telepathy that she could activate to bypass the Wards.

Besides, given the time frame involved, Sensei would have had to be in the Hall since before we arrived...and I doubt he's quite that subverted.

I'd lay 4:1 odds that Sensei is at one of his normal haunts, unless the Conspiracy placed him elsewhere.
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He was in on the conspiracy, including the timing. He doesn't have to be subverted. He is part of a house of notoriously rebellious republicans who hate the entire clan system. He's already demonstrated the ability to screw with Kakara's perceptions, and being low in power only makes it easier to hide. That's all assuming that it's even him instead of another seer.
 
I'm not going to cut off write-ins when I open the vote this time, but I will be posting the ones people want me to post. I'll open the vote in a few hours; if anybody wants me to include their ideas with the opening post, please post them now, and tag me.

EDIT: Don't spam me unless you want your ideas to be lost in the ensuing tidal wave.
 
HoratioVonBecker said:
Did you seriously make Every Darn Vegetan Moral Failing Dandeer's fault?
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Yammar's moral failings date back to a point in time at which I'm pretty sure Dandeer was a little girl. A secretly vicious little girl, quite possibly, but not capable of making the brutality with which House Talt was massacred 'her fault.'

As a direct consequence of Yammar's moral failings that are in no way Dandeer's fault, Lord Vegeta grew up a traumatized man with a deep tendency to take out his anger on others in an abusive fashion. I'm pretty sure Dandeer wasn't lying about him abusing her, not least because we directly saw him abusing Jaffur. This is, again, not Dandeer's fault, though it's quite possible that her massacre of the Vegetan sorcerors made the problem much, MUCH worse.

It's far more likely that Dandeer managed to slip a mind control geas, or rather a "backdoor" by which she could clamp down such a geas, at some point in the twenty or so years that she's been married to the royal house. Hell, I don't even blame her for doing that. Yammar is basically the saiyan version of Tywin Lannister, and if I were Tywin Lannister's daughter-in-law you bet your butt I'd be tempted to give myself root access to mind control him if he ever decided to get dangerous towards me.
 
Hmm.

I'm not seeing any write-ins that are clearly better than the canned options of "go for Dandeer" and "take Jaffur to the Senzus."
 
Gore17 said:
Where did you get that implication?
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Being fuzzy about the timeline. I'd somehow put the House Talt Purge at around the same time as the Sorcerer massacre, and guessed that Dandeer might have been using extensive mind control for a long time. (Of course, that doesn't hold up well under scrutiny - largely because she doesn't look competent enough.)
Gore17 said:
That really depends on how Dandeer is communicating with the Seer. Telepathy can't reach into the Hall, but they might be using magic or an application of the Sight. So it really comes down to "can the connection be switched to one of the Super Saiyans".

If Dandeer was maintaining a connection through her control over the Seer(s), then probably not.
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There's also the issue of mind-control mechanism. If, as we suspect, she's subverted Berra by sending him into denial about allegiances, I don't think he's going to accept Carrick's input very easily - they don't seem to have a good relationship. (Of course, Vegeta Vegeta's opinion of Carrick may well be worse.)
Yammar either isn't accepting any input, or will respond to Seer support immediately. So it's probably down to-
Wait. Carrick is a precog. He'll know which one we try to block. Either we need to block all his avenues of input, or block strategically - and in this case, staying focused on Dandeer counts as the latter and maybe the former too.
Gore17 said:
It's not mandatory. We know it's not mandatory.
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For Gokuns.
Simon_Jester said:
Yammar's moral failings date back to a point in time at which I'm pretty sure Dandeer was a little girl. A secretly vicious little girl, quite possibly, but not capable of making the brutality with which House Talt was massacred 'her fault.'

As a direct consequence of Yammar's moral failings that are in no way Dandeer's fault, Lord Vegeta grew up a traumatized man with a deep tendency to take out his anger on others in an abusive fashion. I'm pretty sure Dandeer wasn't lying about him abusing her, not least because we directly saw him abusing Jaffur. This is, again, not Dandeer's fault, though it's quite possible that her massacre of the Vegetan sorcerors made the problem much, MUCH worse.
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See me being confused by the timeline. Whatever the case, we really need to go over the Vegetan family history with Pastsight and Seer training vetted by our Z Fighter friends.
Simon_Jester said:
Hmm.

I'm not seeing any write-ins that are clearly better than the canned options of "go for Dandeer" and "take Jaffur to the Senzus."
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There's fakeout IT-is-actually-Solar Flare.
 
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Cariyaga said:
Popping another powerball in her face?
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At this point, I suspect just attacking her conventionally would achieve better results. Jaffur blew up her shields and it doesn't look like she's in a good position to raise new ones. The whole point of the power ball was to bypass her direct defenses, and those defenses are no longer there.

HoratioVonBecker said:
There's fakeout IT-is-actually-Solar Flare.
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I'm not sure that a write-up using this would be better than "just attack Dandeer." Depends on how you phrase it.

I'd like us to seriously consider using a canned option this round. The canned options have the advantage that Poptart probably won't expect them to be too complicated to work in the time available (PROBABLY), and in this case we have a pretty good and versatile selection of such options.
 
Simon_Jester said:
At this point, I suspect just attacking her conventionally would achieve better results. Jaffur blew up her shields and it doesn't look like she's in a good position to raise new ones. The whole point of the power ball was to bypass her direct defenses, and those defenses are no longer there.

I'm not sure that a write-up using this would be better than "just attack Dandeer." Depends on how you phrase it.

I'd like us to seriously consider using a canned option this round. The canned options have the advantage that Poptart probably won't expect them to be too complicated to work in the time available (PROBABLY), and in this case we have a pretty good and versatile selection of such options.
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Hey, the advantage of Approval Voting is that we can vote for all the options that look viable.
Anyway, @PoptartProdigy, I'm going to vote for this one:
[] Raise fingers as if to use Instant Transmission, but actually use it as a decoy for Solar Flare.
 
Simon_Jester said:
I'd like us to seriously consider using a canned option this round. The canned options have the advantage that Poptart probably won't expect them to be too complicated to work in the time available (PROBABLY), and in this case we have a pretty good and versatile selection of such options.
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Disclaimer: I roll for everything. Options reflect things Kakara believes to be feasible. They do not guarantee success. If you pick a canned option, it can fail. Otherwise there'd be no point to multiple options.
 
@PoptartProdigy

My write-in suggestion. Feel free to edit it to suit the style of vote you desire, so long as you maintain the concept.

[] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[] Try to break your Father out of his mind control.
--[] Freeze in mid-air instead of dodging an incoming attack, and drop your Power Level to 80,000,000. Any attack from your father which connects will end you. You know he won't do that.
 
Alright, we need to think of non-violent ways to disable Dandeer.

...If Synchornity is cast to connect her to Kakara while we preform the Genki Dama, do you think the sense of being connected to everything/peace might overwhelm her?
 
Ridiculously Average Guy said:
Alright, we need to think of non-violent ways to disable Dandeer.

...If Synchornity is cast to connect her to Kakara while we preform the Genki Dama, do you think the sense of being connected to everything/peace might overwhelm her?
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. . .

Yeah, I don't think we want that thing anywhere near our mind. Seriously.

And let's not teach her how to Spirit Bomb. I don't know if her observed ki level is enough to kill the planet (though I bet it is) but she doesn't need more destructive power.
 
HoratioVonBecker said:
There's fakeout IT-is-actually-Solar Flare.
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this was i like. Let's Double down on trickery :D

We could then go heal Jaffur, or attack Dandeer. Or we could even doubleteam Yammar with Apra while Berra is blinded.
KaintukeeBob said:
@PoptartProdigy

My write-in suggestion. Feel free to edit it to suit the style of vote you desire, so long as you maintain the concept.

[] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[] Try to break your Father out of his mind control.
--[] Freeze in mid-air instead of dodging an incoming attack, and drop your Power Level to 80,000,000. Any attack from your father which connects will end you. You know he won't do that.
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IN THEORY it could work. IN PRACTICE it's unwise to risk it all on one trick. After all this is NOT a shonen manga, and nothing will save us from a bad roll here.

There always has to be room for a "plan B"
KaintukeeBob said:
. . .

Yeah, I don't think we want that thing anywhere near our mind. Seriously.

And let's not teach her how to Spirit Bomb. I don't know if her observed ki level is enough to kill the planet (though I bet it is) but she doesn't need more destructive power.
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..now i wonder. Can synchronicity actually be used to teach the Genkidama? It would be an interesting workaround for the "you have to understand it by yourself" thing. Off course if it failed it might lock whoever we used it with from learning the genkidama (it took Gohan years to learn it the proper way after Goku messed up after all).

Could it be used to teach other techniques? If/When we go for the higher level of ssj or for god Ki, could it transfer the "insight" or "feel" of those forms to others if we wanted to?
 
KaintukeeBob said:
@PoptartProdigy

My write-in suggestion. Feel free to edit it to suit the style of vote you desire, so long as you maintain the concept.

[] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[] Try to break your Father out of his mind control.
--[] Freeze in mid-air instead of dodging an incoming attack, and drop your Power Level to 80,000,000. Any attack from your father which connects will end you. You know he won't do that.
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As others have said I feel that that is a TERRIBLE IDEA

Also we need a non-LETHAL take down method not a non-VIOLENT one.
 
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