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@PoptartProdigy, if you don't mind me asking, why was it deceit check and not communication one?

Why did we have to roll a Deceit check here?
Jaffur was bullshitting you about how certain he was regarding his feelings for his father. Kakara passed, and thus called him on it.
@PoptartProdigy
How similar is Garunhold's ecology to Earth's?
Is a Garunholder cow-equivalent actually just a cow, or a cow analogue?
It's a cow.
Here's the thing though:
Is it you, or is it Kakara? Because the option was framed as having been said and thought up by Kakara.
And she doesn't share the omniscience of the GM.

After all, one of the tags of the quest is [Unreliable Narrator].
It's a moot point now, but I wanted to make the point, because I have the sneaking suspicion it might be relevant in the future.
I'm this case, me, although taking a critical read is commendable.
 
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I'll not seeing why Kakara would have standing to speak with way. The trial would be Vegetan business. Jaffur recuses himself as an aggrieved party, then Yammar conducts a drumhead court martial and then proceeds to coincidentally commander the Senzu's entire accumulated stockpile of beans shortly after sentencing.
 
I'll not seeing why Kakara would have standing to speak with way. The trial would be Vegetan business. Jaffur recuses himself as an aggrieved party, then Yammar conducts a drumhead court martial and then proceeds to coincidentally commander the Senzu's entire accumulated stockpile of beans shortly after sentencing.
Technically, she can't insist on it. In reality she already wields a huge amount of influence among the Vegetans, she just isn't using it for much right now. After she's led a conspiracy to free Jaffur? If she asks to be there at the trial, I don't think a single person will try and tell her no.
 
Considering the Senzus are vital in the plan to free his grandson, and only sequestered themselves due to the Sealing, I can't imagine Yammar unilaterally punishing them. I could see some sort of renegotiation, once things are settled. But seizing their entire stockpile during a trial of a completely separate individual for separate crimes?
 
Considering the Senzus are vital in the plan to free his grandson, and only sequestered themselves due to the Sealing, I can't imagine Yammar unilaterally punishing them. I could see some sort of renegotiation, once things are settled. But seizing their entire stockpile during a trial of a completely separate individual for separate crimes?
They're implying Yammar could pull another Death of House Talt, except this time just involving Dandeer i.e. torture to the edge of death, feed her a senzu bean, repeat ad nauseum.
 
They're implying Yammar could pull another Death of House Talt, except this time just involving Dandeer i.e. torture to the edge of death, feed her a senzu bean, repeat ad nauseum.
Seems like a waste considering the afterlife exists and Dandeer is almost certainly going to hell.

A functional and proven afterlife really takes the wind out of many of these moral arguments.
 
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Technically, she can't insist on it. In reality she already wields a huge amount of influence among the Vegetans, she just isn't using it for much right now. After she's led a conspiracy to free Jaffur? If she asks to be there at the trial, I don't think a single person will try and tell her no.

Yammar, Jaffur, and Vegeta likely would for various reasons. Pushing the matter when Clan Goku is already reeling from a crisis of legitimacy and resented both within and without for interfering in Vegetan affairs to create this whole mess in the first place? Not a good idea.

Of course, Kakara could then whip out the, "Oh, I'm a Vegetan royal, too!", card...
 
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Finally caught up!

A few questions: what the heck was the (abandoned) "Transcendence" vote a while back ? And why did it disappear after the scouts interrupt ?

And what's the thing with multiform ? We have a teacher on hand in Kakara's mother as a trained Tien style user and we don't go to her for how to train and/or perfect multiform ? the technique seems well known, if somewhat rarely used, so why do we need to re-invent the wheel here ?
Also, (regular) Multiform is the perfect tool to master/endurance training Golden Oozaru while still under the Training Hall since it cuts your total power in half/third iirc.


note: being able to hit power level cap of SSJ in just a couple of actions makes it feel cheap, and severely limits/cheapens progress. Like Betarel said, once you hit the cap what's the point of continuing ? Hopefully SSJ2 (whenever we unlock it) will need a lot of time to cap out
 
Yammar, Jaffur, and Vegeta likely would. Pushing the matter when Clan Goku is already reeling from a crisis of legitimacy and resented both within and without for interfering in Vegetan affairs to create this whole mess in the first place? Not a good idea.
Jaffur won't tell us no. Yammar might, but I'm pretty sure Jaffur will argue the point and he won't feel strongly enough to keep us out against Jaffur's wishes. Recall that we have been Jaffur's only point of positive personal contact for some years now, except maybe Dandelor near the end.
 
Jaffur won't tell us no. Yammar might, but I'm pretty sure Jaffur will argue the point and he won't feel strongly enough to keep us out against Jaffur's wishes. Recall that we have been Jaffur's only point of positive personal contact for some years now, except maybe Dandelor near the end.

Jaffur wants his mother dead. Dead dead dead. He also doesn't want his brother to do it, and knows that nothing will stop him long term. Yammar cares about the sovereignty of the clan as a matter of principle, and also wants Dandeer dead dead dead. They aren't going to cooperate with anybody who would get in the way of that when they know that they'd end up looking like the reasonable ones in any battle of public perception.
 
Considering the Senzus are vital in the plan to free his grandson, and only sequestered themselves due to the Sealing, I can't imagine Yammar unilaterally punishing them. I could see some sort of renegotiation, once things are settled. But seizing their entire stockpile during a trial of a completely separate individual for separate crimes?
I don't think he can punish them, at least not for this reason. Remember he accepted their allegiance concerning this crisis.

Jaffur won't tell us no. Yammar might, but I'm pretty sure Jaffur will argue the point and he won't feel strongly enough to keep us out against Jaffur's wishes. Recall that we have been Jaffur's only point of positive personal contact for some years now, except maybe Dandelor near the end.
Yammar already shown he can and will control his temper when faced with political consequences of lashing out, afterall that's why he hasn't simply murdered her yet.
Also, simply killing high rank nobles sets a bad precedent: when you yourself are one you really don't want people to think it's okay to simply kill you without a trial or a chance to defend yourself.
 
Finally caught up!

A few questions: what the heck was the (abandoned) "Transcendence" vote a while back ? And why did it disappear after the scouts interrupt ?

And what's the thing with multiform ? We have a teacher on hand in Kakara's mother as a trained Tien style user and we don't go to her for how to train and/or perfect multiform ? the technique seems well known, if somewhat rarely used, so why do we need to re-invent the wheel here ?
Also, (regular) Multiform is the perfect tool to master/endurance training Golden Oozaru while still under the Training Hall since it cuts your total power in half/third iirc.


note: being able to hit power level cap of SSJ in just a couple of actions makes it feel cheap, and severely limits/cheapens progress. Like Betarel said, once you hit the cap what's the point of continuing ? Hopefully SSJ2 (whenever we unlock it) will need a lot of time to cap out

In order:

Transendence was an action to break into Elite level Ki Sensing skill. We can either do it with a "Machine Sense" specialty or an "All is One" specialty. The first allows us to sense machines like ki, and the second has something to do with spirit bomb and the planet. This is basically the "one of the best in history" level, hence the "transcendence" appellation. Don't remember why it was gone tho. We probably didn't have enough time.

In the beginning we purposely kept it a secret so that we could be in more places than one without people knowing. In hindsight, all agree that the whole thing was pointless and we probably would have mastered it much faster if we went to our mom. If you're talking about 'Perfect' Multiform, that was an attempt to get Elite level Multiform with all clones having maximum power. The endurance training thing has been addressed, we need to be at full power in order to train and unlock forms.

That's how it was in canon though. Gohan managed to unlock and train it within an year. Besides, we're still a lot behind in skill which we're trying to shore up and where the real growth comes from. We unlock great and varied new abilities by training them.
 
Jaffur wants his mother dead. Dead dead dead. He also doesn't want his brother to do it, and knows that nothing will stop him long term. Yammar cares about the sovereignty of the clan as a matter of principle, and also wants Dandeer dead dead dead. They aren't going to cooperate with anybody who would get in the way of that when they know that they'd end up looking like the reasonable ones in any battle of public perception.
Those are reasons to do it despite our arguments, not reasons to bar us from participating in the trial. Jaffur seems to think it's a sure thing we'll be there to argue.
Yammar already shown he can and will control his temper when faced with political consequences of lashing out, afterall that's why he hasn't simply murdered her yet.
Also, simply killing high rank nobles sets a bad precedent: when you yourself are one you really don't want people to think it's okay to simply kill you without a trial or a chance to defend yourself.
I'm actually pretty sure Dandeer's not dead because of mind control at this point - Papata Fren commented how she seems to be immune to political consequences.
 
Those are reasons to do it despite our arguments, not reasons to bar us from participating in the trial. Jaffur seems to think it's a sure thing we'll be there to argue.

I'm actually pretty sure Dandeer's not dead because of mind control at this point - Papata Fren commented how she seems to be immune to political consequences.

Also I think Kakara's Dad is offering protection to her so attacking her still gets a Super Saiyan coming after you and your family.
 
Finally caught up!

A few questions: what the heck was the (abandoned) "Transcendence" vote a while back ? And why did it disappear after the scouts interrupt ?

And what's the thing with multiform ? We have a teacher on hand in Kakara's mother as a trained Tien style user and we don't go to her for how to train and/or perfect multiform ? the technique seems well known, if somewhat rarely used, so why do we need to re-invent the wheel here ?
Also, (regular) Multiform is the perfect tool to master/endurance training Golden Oozaru while still under the Training Hall since it cuts your total power in half/third iirc.


note: being able to hit power level cap of SSJ in just a couple of actions makes it feel cheap, and severely limits/cheapens progress. Like Betarel said, once you hit the cap what's the point of continuing ? Hopefully SSJ2 (whenever we unlock it) will need a lot of time to cap out
Transcendence was the action to figure out machine sensing (since Dazarel, also the ability to apply the revelation behind the Genki Dama) for Kakara's ki sense on a more permanent basis, prior to the systemic revision away from action points altogether. I believe the players dropped it in favor of emergency training in preparation for Dazarel. Presently it, and essentially everything, is on hold during the approach to the Unsealing, but once that's done, the project will be going back on the To-Do List.

Multiform is well-known and well-charted; the frequent (and just as frequently dropped) actions you see regarding it are an attempt at reinventing not the wheel, but Perfect Multiform, the technique Cell used. Perfect Multiform allows one to maintain a full four clones with no power loss. Kakara can presently maintain three, splitting her power level among them, and if she levels up her skill to Exceptional, which is as high as one can go without an Elite+ breakthrough, she'll be able to maintain four. Doing so is now on the To-Do list as a Training Goal, and receives background progress rolls.

Multiform training does not appear to actually help with endurance training for transformations, which is incredibly vexing, as it would, as you note, otherwise be the perfect solution for further breakthroughs.

FPSSJ feeling cheap and like a yoke around your neck is actually deliberate. Centuries after Goku and Gohan, the Exiles have gotten the training process down to an exact science. They get to that cap with supreme ease...and then stop dead. So strong, and no more. To go higher courts near-certain death, at your own people's hands even if the Enemy doesn't come to do it. That conflict is a central one to a Lord or Lady's life, and muddling the IC/OOC line on that is a very deliberate choice on my part. There is more -- so much more -- to be done in this universe. FPSSJ, while it looks and feels impressive, is truly just the first step into a very deep pool...and you can't go any further. Thus far, and no further, with the view ahead clear as day.
 
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...Theoretically, could the saiyans safely move the planet to some much farther solar system away from where the Enemy is?
 
FPSSJ feeling cheap and like a yoke around your neck is actually deliberate. Centuries after Goku and Gohan, the Exiles have gotten the training process down to an exact science. They get to that cap with supreme ease...and then stop dead. So strong, and no more. To go higher courts near-certain death, at your own people's hands even if the Enemy doesn't come to do it. That conflict is a central one to a Lord or Lady's life, and muddling the IC/OOC line on that is a very deliberate choice on my part. There is more -- so much more -- to be done in this universe. FPSSJ, while it looks and feels impressive, is truly just the first step into a very deep pool...and you can't go any further. Thus far, and no further, with the view ahead clear as day.
Which makes it all the more remarkable that Kakara had managed to find two ways to get pass it already. 3 if you could Jaffur's trick.
 
...Theoretically, could the saiyans safely move the planet to some much farther solar system away from where the Enemy is?
Might not even need a solar system. Ki power should be able to do replace the need of a sun.

That would be interesting. A few sayains constantly moving the planet farther and farther away.
 
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