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DoofQuest- a Disney Villains Victorious CK2-Style Quest

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RecklessPrudence said:
Huh, okay - so it's not just a matter of timeframe, but also of themes? So despite Bedknobs & Broomsticks being set less than a decade before Who Framed Roger Rabbit, it's in DVV Classic because the themes of it fit more naturally into a that iteration of the setting? Fair enough, thanks for the clarification!
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Yeah, I think the primary distinction is less about timeframe (although that one does play a part as well) and more about thematics

- DVV Classic seems to centre more around fantastical adventures and/or parallel realms
- DVV Gridlocked is more about corporate/political corruption and social commentary

So, in essence Classic is the World of Darkness, while Gridlocked is more Shadowrun...adjusted for Disney, of course

Meaning that Up with its message of always being on the lookout for new adventures gets fitted into Classic (while the timeframe would fit better into Gridlocked) - WFRR with it´s theme of defending wonders against greed and corporate exploitation is more Gridlocked (although the timeframe would suggest Classic)

Granted, it´s not the best distinction thanks to stuff like Gravity Falls, but it´s something
 
TheGleeman said:
Yeah, I think the primary distinction is less about timeframe (although that one does play a part as well) and more about thematics

- DVV Classic seems to centre more around fantastical adventures and/or parallel realms
- DVV Gridlocked is more about corporate/political corruption and social commentary

So, in essence Classic is the World of Darkness, while Gridlocked is more Shadowrun...adjusted for Disney, of course

Meaning that Up with its message of always being on the lookout for new adventures gets fitted into Classic (while the timeframe would fit better into Gridlocked) - WFRR with it´s theme of defending wonders against greed and corporate exploitation is more Gridlocked (although the timeframe would suggest Classic)

Granted, it´s not the best distinction thanks to stuff like Gravity Falls, but it´s something
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Bill is the apocalypse that hangs above everyone as petty kings play their games of power and ignore the growing problem. He offers power that, in their greed and arrogance inevitably they take (because how many kings wouldn't make a deal with Bill certain they come out on top) and so doom the world.

Clearly he's a metaphor for global warming. The real Bill was corporate greed all along.
 
clockworkchaos said:
The real Bill was corporate greed all along.
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I Actually think that Bill Cypher is the representation of Greed inevitably luring men to their doom to satisfy their own power and influence over the World, and how I think it ties into the threat of the Illuminati and how they could be pulling the strings on the whole Gridlocked situation at large.

The Illuminati in the case of the situation we find ourselves in, are the representation of those who think (or rather have the delusion) they have the right to control the world over other people, like in the case of manipulating elections, corprate leaders and the ideas of who gets what. Who deserves the technology, how can it benefit them, and not others.

How does the situation in America help the Illuminati?

I personally think that the Illuminati are in league with Bill Cypher...in some small way.

--------------------------------------------

Now we give a wild out there headcanon.

First some Visual Aids on both Bill and the Illuminati.


And this


Notice any similarities yet?

Good, now onto the real meat of this mad idea in my head, I think sometime in the distant past before this chaos Duval and Peredur made a pact with Bill sometime in the ancient past in exchange for influence and power, and knowledge on how to rule the world. Now, this is only a guess based on a few things that is important, namely the all seeing eye and sorts.

I think what really is going on is that the Illuminati have to rule the world before Bill's barrier breaks, be it in the shadows or in public, the point remains I fully believe the Illuminati are playing behind the scenes to amass power and influence as Bill grows in strength and power to break his barrier. The moment I think that one happens the other will play out.

Hence this guess, I mean, making a deal with Bill Cypher in the Past sounds like something the illuminati would do. Wouldn't it?

Give feedback on the idea, rebuke it and above all, be nice about it.
 
Just pointing out that THIS were the Illuminati in RL:

en.wikipedia.org

Illuminati - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

A secret society of intellactuals who wanted to combat superstition, promate free thinking and combat political/religous powermongering...

...essentially the *complete opposite* of what fiction later turned them into.

Ironic, isn´t it?
 
Cyberphilosipher said:
I Actually think that Bill Cypher is the representation of Greed inevitably luring men to their doom to satisfy their own power and influence over the World, and how I think it ties into the threat of the Illuminati and how they could be pulling the strings on the whole Gridlocked situation at large.

The Illuminati in the case of the situation we find ourselves in, are the representation of those who think (or rather have the delusion) they have the right to control the world over other people, like in the case of manipulating elections, corprate leaders and the ideas of who gets what. Who deserves the technology, how can it benefit them, and not others.

How does the situation in America help the Illuminati?

I personally think that the Illuminati are in league with Bill Cypher...in some small way.

--------------------------------------------

Now we give a wild out there headcanon.

First some Visual Aids on both Bill and the Illuminati.


And this


Notice any similarities yet?

Good, now onto the real meat of this mad idea in my head, I think sometime in the distant past before this chaos Duval and Peredur made a pact with Bill sometime in the ancient past in exchange for influence and power, and knowledge on how to rule the world. Now, this is only a guess based on a few things that is important, namely the all seeing eye and sorts.

I think what really is going on is that the Illuminati have to rule the world before Bill's barrier breaks, be it in the shadows or in public, the point remains I fully believe the Illuminati are playing behind the scenes to amass power and influence as Bill grows in strength and power to break his barrier. The moment I think that one happens the other will play out.

Hence this guess, I mean, making a deal with Bill Cypher in the Past sounds like something the illuminati would do. Wouldn't it?

Give feedback on the idea, rebuke it and above all, be nice about it.
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Remember though that at a basic level in a Watsonian view, Bill is essentially a nigh-omnipotent immature young adult. He's the extradimensional eldritch entity equivalent of an early-twenties 4chan greentext kid who's full of his own sense of superiority and intelligence, who didn't have any real Grand PlanTM​, just to bully those who can't fight back and hang out with his equally immature friends without any boring responsible people telling them what they can and can't do to the mortals or the fabric of reality. His whole plan, the whole multigenerational con he was running that only looks clever when you don't operate at his time scales and have to piece together fragments from centuries ago, was to get somewhere for him and his mates to crash, drink dubious alcohol, torment small animals, and put holes in the wall because they can.

EDIT: I need you guys to realise this, to really understand this. Doofenshmirtz is more mature than Bill. Hell, Drakken is/was arguably more mature than Bill! There's a damn good case to be made that Ron Stoppable was more mature than Bill Cipher! About the only person we've seen in this entire quest who's both less mature than Bill Cipher and over the age of eighteen is Buddy fucking Pine, and I am including the Toons in that! The only thing Bill has over your average 22-year-old 4chan poster is that he can snap his fingers and warp the fabric of reality. He's not some unknowable Machiavellian schemer. He is an existential threat to this entire dimension, and at the same time a dorito-shaped giant petty arsehole of a child.
 
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TheGleeman said:
Just pointing out that THIS were the Illuminati in RL:

en.wikipedia.org

Illuminati - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

A secret society of intellactuals who wanted to combat superstition, promate free thinking and combat political/religous powermongering...

...essentially the *complete opposite* of what fiction later turned them into.

Ironic, isn´t it?
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That, plus the real Illuminati got busted by the Bavarian (?) secret police within a few years and were pretty comprehensively crushed out of existence.
 
Simon_Jester said:
That, plus the real Illuminati got busted by the Bavarian (?) secret police within a few years and were pretty comprehensively crushed out of existence.
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Yeah, they were a 18th century society of free spirits (for their time at least) who shared a mutual hatred with the Church and got outlawed and ultimately crushed.

One of their member was Knigge - you know, the guy whose rules on properiety everyone apes even now?

So in the end they weren´t the all-seeing council of puppeteers fiction likes to portray them as - not that that stopped anyone ever since...
 
RecklessPrudence said:
Huh, okay - so it's not just a matter of timeframe, but also of themes? So despite Bedknobs & Broomsticks being set less than a decade before Who Framed Roger Rabbit, it's in DVV Classic because the themes of it fit more naturally into a that iteration of the setting? Fair enough, thanks for the clarification!
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You're on point. Classic is more historical and fantasy while Gridlocked is contemporary with science fiction and urban fantasy. The geneal rule of thumb is before vs after WWII, but there are a handful of exceptions that are thematically more in line with one game versus the other.

Look at Talespin. Jungle Book paradox aside, its a 1930s Golden Age of Aviation setting that has more to offer to Gridlocked than it would Classic. Its the reverse of the deal with Muntz in Classic instead of Gridlocked.

DVV Space is special because it can be used as its own setting or mixed into the others. My pal Anubis ended his Classic game with a bang by having Zurg invade Earth years after they defeared Chernabog!
 
RecklessPrudence said:
Remember though that at a basic level in a Watsonian view, Bill is essentially a nigh-omnipotent immature young adult. He's an early-twenties 4chan greentext kid who's full of his own sense of superiority and intelligence, who didn't have any real Grand PlanTM​, just to bully those who can't fight back and hang out with his equally immature friends without any boring responsible people telling them what they can and can't do to the mortals or the fabric of reality. His whole plan, the whole multigenerational con he was running that only looks clever when you don't operate at his time scales and have to piece together fragments from centuries ago, was to get somewhere for him and his mates to crash, drink dubious alcohol, torment small animals, and put holes in the wall because they can.

EDIT: I need you guys to realise this. Doofenshmirtz is more mature than Bill. Hell, Drakken is/was arguably more mature than Bill! There's a damn good case to be made that Ron fucking Stoppable was more mature than Bill Cipher! About the only person we've seen in this entire quest who's both less mature than Bill Cipher and over the age of eighteen is Buddy fucking Pine, and I am including the Toons in that!
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So Bill Cypher is essentially Disneys answer to "Squire of Gothos" Trelane from Star Trek?

That sucks...

memory-alpha.fandom.com

Trelane

Trelane was a puckish, childlike alien who introduced himself to several USS Enterprise crewmembers in 2267. That year, the Enterprise was en route to the Beta VI colony to deliver supplies when it encountered Gothos, a previously unknown planet, which was the homeworld (or rather, playground)...
memory-alpha.fandom.com memory-alpha.fandom.com
 
TheGleeman said:
So Bill Cypher is essentially Disneys answer to Trelane, "Squire of Gothos" Star Trek?

That sucks...

memory-alpha.fandom.com

Trelane

Trelane was a puckish, childlike alien who introduced himself to several USS Enterprise crewmembers in 2267. That year, the Enterprise was en route to the Beta VI colony to deliver supplies when it encountered Gothos, a previously unknown planet, which was the homeworld (or rather, playground)...
memory-alpha.fandom.com memory-alpha.fandom.com
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I actually felt kind of bad for him, is the main difference to me.
 
I would like to add that the current running theory is that Bill is based off - or actually is - Xolotl, Aztec god of Death, Twins, Misfortune, Monsters, Deformities, and a lot more. This is in part because Bill's canon opposite and the only creature Bill is afraid of is Axolotl, a being that has appeared three times in the series.

The first is in a Gravity Falls CYOA book, where there is an ending where Mabel and Dipper stumble upon Axolotl's dimension. They ask about Bill, whereupon Axolotl says this:

Sixty degrees that come in threes.
Watches from within birch trees.
Saw his own dimension burn.
Misses home and can't return.
Says he's happy. He's a liar.
Blame the arson for the fire.
If he wants to shirk the blame,
He'll have to invoke my name.
One way to absolve his crime.
A different form, a different time.
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The second time Axolotl appears is when Bill mentions her in the finale as he's trying to escape Stanley's mind. He screams backwards:

"A-X-O-L-O-T-L! My time has come to burn! I invoke the ancient power that I may return!"
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...which in turn fulfills the saying before about invoking Axolotl's name.

The third time is mentioned in the physical Journal 3 that people could buy. Stanford once went to Axolotl's dimension and encountered her in the form of a human female.
 
Fittingly, if Bill is interpreted as Xolotl, and the Axolotl as his opposite, it makes a linguistic pun: A-Xolotl, as in "Xolotl" with the "a-" prefix, translated literally as "not Xolotl".
 
Shadowhisker said:
Fittingly, if Bill is interpreted as Xolotl, and the Axolotl as his opposite, it makes a linguistic pun: A-Xolotl, as in "Xolotl" with the "a-" prefix, translated literally as "not Xolotl".
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I am aware. That linguistic trick is why I said that is part of the basis for believing Bill is or is based off of Xolotl.
 
RecklessPrudence said:
Wouldn't in this analogy we be the Flatlanders, and he be a 'three-dimensional' being who can place his cheeto-encrusted finger anywhere in our 2d universe, thus seeming godlike?
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That's the joke, yes, but I mean the theory where he is literally from a dimension based on but otherwise identical to Flatland. There is documentation on the subject if you go looking for it.
 
weredrago2 said:
That's the joke, yes, but I mean the theory where he is literally from a dimension based on but otherwise identical to Flatland. There is documentation on the subject if you go looking for it.
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Ah, okay. I still have to read my Journal 3, it's in the veritable stack of to-read novels, sourcebooks, and comic collections that somehow have only grown during lockdown. I swear they're breeding, there's more of them every time I turn around!

EDIT: Also, Bill would absolutely smite the shit out of me for talking smack about him, holy fuck. I would be wishing for death right about now, because he can't let a single thing go. Dude held such a grudge against EDIT: Stanford for delaying his goals for not even a human lifetime that he delighted in torturing his entire family, even when they didn't know they were related. That's like me being mildly delayed by, like, an echidna I have to step over on the footpath on the way to some bad takeaway that I wait until that echidna has bred, then hunt down and torment that poor animal's mate and entire familial parade (yes, that's the term for a group of echidnas).
 
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Cyberphilosipher said:
I Actually think that Bill Cypher is the representation of Greed inevitably luring men to their doom to satisfy their own power and influence over the World, and how I think it ties into the threat of the Illuminati and how they could be pulling the strings on the whole Gridlocked situation at large.

The Illuminati in the case of the situation we find ourselves in, are the representation of those who think (or rather have the delusion) they have the right to control the world over other people, like in the case of manipulating elections, corprate leaders and the ideas of who gets what. Who deserves the technology, how can it benefit them, and not others.

How does the situation in America help the Illuminati?

I personally think that the Illuminati are in league with Bill Cypher...in some small way.

--------------------------------------------

Now we give a wild out there headcanon.

First some Visual Aids on both Bill and the Illuminati.


And this


Notice any similarities yet?

Good, now onto the real meat of this mad idea in my head, I think sometime in the distant past before this chaos Duval and Peredur made a pact with Bill sometime in the ancient past in exchange for influence and power, and knowledge on how to rule the world. Now, this is only a guess based on a few things that is important, namely the all seeing eye and sorts.

I think what really is going on is that the Illuminati have to rule the world before Bill's barrier breaks, be it in the shadows or in public, the point remains I fully believe the Illuminati are playing behind the scenes to amass power and influence as Bill grows in strength and power to break his barrier. The moment I think that one happens the other will play out.

Hence this guess, I mean, making a deal with Bill Cypher in the Past sounds like something the illuminati would do. Wouldn't it?

Give feedback on the idea, rebuke it and above all, be nice about it.
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When I first opened your spoilers, the images didn't show up. A+ accidental joke
 
RecklessPrudence said:
EDIT: Also, Bill would absolutely smite the shit out of me for talking smack about him, holy fuck. I would be wishing for death right about now, because he can't let a single thing go.
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Would, and will be. When that boundary shatters the fact that there is a keyboard and computer screen between you and him will mean nothing at all.

You can damn well bet that he'd be looking right back at us while we roll our dice, commenting, occasionally eating said dice, and considering it foreplay. In order to have a chance we'd have to be doing some weird behind-the-scenes conspiracy and rube goldberg bullshit without it even touching the thread itself.
 
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