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DoofQuest- a Disney Villains Victorious CK2-Style Quest

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sunsunsunsunsun said:
There's the obvious issue of A. we don't know when Toffee will or wont take actions to reduce the DC, and we also don't know at what DC he'd be willing to pull the trigger. If he succeeds on the action before we do, that's bad juju.
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We can know at what DC we could ever possibly succeed, and while we can't know, we can guess that Toffee has more Intrigue than we do, so the point where he's willing to pull the trigger is probably before the point when we would be. Right?

On the other hand, spending time doing Personals that could increase our Intrigue, thus making us able to reach high DCs before Toffee does (or realistically, at least at the same time), would work better for us, at least until the Hunt Star DC lowers past the threshold where we could not possibly succeed. Am I missing something here?

Edit: actually, have we seen Toffee's Intrigue in rival reports yet? What are we looking at?
 
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[ ] Plan: New Beginnings (Version IV)
-[ ] Martial: Form a Black Ops Squad
--[ ] Technor (Leader), Juniper, Gomez
-[ ] Diplomacy: Recruit from your Rolodex
--[ ] Cruella de Vil
-[ ] Diplomacy: Guard Against Hats (Moseby)
--[ ] Write-in: Bog down sales and distribution with red tape and taxes
-[ ] Stewardship: Buy Out a Rival Corporation (Smarty)
--[ ] Hopper Food Group
-[ ] Stewardship: Implement Large Herbivore Exhibits (Roddy)
-[ ] Stewardship: Rebuild Sinatron (Major Monogram)
-[ ] Intrigue: Root Out High-Level Moles (Tobe)
-[ ] Intrigue: Investigate a Hot Spot
--[ ] Zootopia
-[ ] Learning: Decode Odd Transmissions (Wasabi)
-[ ] Learning: Research Large Carnivore Domestication (Jumba)
-[ ] Occult: Basic Magic Theory (Khan)
-[ ] Occult: Agent Unknown (Janna)
-[ ] Personals
--[ ] Doof:
---[ ] Personal Attention: Agent Unknown
---[ ] Accept Bellewhether's Invitation
--[ ] Norm Prime
---[ ] End your obsession with platypodes
--[ ] Dennis
---[ ] Train with Maui Malard
--[ ] Max
---[ ] Play some video games
--[ ] Lizzy
---[ ] Help Kitsune spread Chaos
--[ ] Kitsune
---[ ] Spread Chaos
--[ ] Alan Bradley
---[ ] Transfer files off of DoofOS
--[ ] Marco
---[ ] Train with Macbeth
--[ ] Tom
---[ ] Hunt for Star
--[ ] Mezmerella
---[ ] Fiddle with your costume
 
Lab_Accident said:
We can know at what DC we could ever possibly succeed, and while we can't know, we can guess that Toffee has more Intrigue than we do. So, unless he can lower the DC by large amounts every turn, it doesn't exactly rewards us getting involved now, does it?
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We're going to need to keep 7 Funds on hand during the next year to hire the Commodore, as he has the best Intrigue of any Hero we can access. That being said, we can guess what kind of Intrigue will be thrown around in this race during the final sprint.

Us, using the Commodore:
18+17+55=90​
Toffee:
50+37+22(this could be a trait or a hero)=89/111​
 
QMs, would Marco or Tom accept working on non-Star related actions, if the action was specifically to raise enough Funds to pay the best detective money can buy to go after her?
 
Lab_Accident said:
What happens then is, shall we say, fairly intuitive.

That said, is there any mechanic that rewards contributing to lowering the DC by looking for Star more than it does, say, having our units spend every single turn doing personals that improves their stats in the hopes that once Toffee brings the DC down enough we can swoop in and steal his prize? Or at least, be strong enough to fight him for it?

Say, a progressive bonus on Find Star actions based on how many of those you've already attempted?
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Well, if you lower the dc and attempt it on the same turn, you get that bonus when toffee theoretically wouldn't know it was coming.
 
Arathnorn said:
Well, if you lower the dc and attempt it on the same turn, you get that bonus when toffee theoretically wouldn't know it was coming.
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So the DC reductions apply the same turn they happened- but Toffee won't get to "see" the DC reduction? We've seen Kings respond to Big overturns before, despite them being in the middle of the turn.

So say we reduce the DC to 100 from 125 on Turn 25 and on the same turn, we take the "Hunt for Star" action, we would be using the 100 DC rather than 125? And the same for Toffee?
 
Lab_Accident said:
Is there a bonus? It's what I was asking. Do we get a bonus to the Hunt Star action, based on how many turns we spent lowering the DC?
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Basically, from what I understand, the bonus is the lowered DC. For example, if the DC was 280 and Marco and Tom searched for Star and got a 135 combined, we'd only have to take the search for star national action at a DC of 145.
sunsunsunsunsun said:
May I possibly suggest we stipulate that Kitsune should spread chaos Anywhere but here?
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That's by default.
Made in Heaven said:
[ ] Spread Chaos
As it turns out, that little black card the apothecary has given you has accumulated quite a bit of currency behind it while you weren't looking, and with the wonders of human technology, travel has become quite convenient. Why not go sightseeing?
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She'll basically spread chaos and cause problems for someone we don't like. Who exactly is unspecified and uncontrollable.
 
mangawriter77 said:
Basically, from what I understand, the bonus is the lowered DC. For example, if the DC was 280 and Marco and Tom searched for Star and got a 135 combined, we'd only have to take the search for star national action at a DC of 145.
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Where did the idea come from that the personal roll result was a direct one to one reduction of the DC?
 
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Penguinbowler said:
The Bonus is a DC that doesn't Require 3 Crits minimum to succeed
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Right, but we're not alone in this race, are we? We're racing Toffee. Which means that we don't have to lower the DC by the most to win, only to beat Toffee to the finish line.

Can we beat Toffee to the finish line as things currently stand? Because if not, we're just helping him get to Star faster.

If Toffee's Intrigue engine is better than our Intrigue engine when the time comes to actually look for Star, then the best outcome we can possibly hope for is a tie. Isn't that correct?
 
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Lab_Accident said:
Right, but we're not alone in this race, are we? We're racing Toffee. Which means that we don't have to lower the DC by the most to win, only to beat Toffee to the finish line.

Can we beat Toffee to the finish line as things currently stand? Because if not, we're just helping him get to Star faster.
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We can, we have Tom or Marco chip away each turn to see the updating things Toffee and us do (He gets out updates when we get his), then on the turn we decide to do it we have the entire Marcnificent Few + Whoever is the guy on Intrigue (Possibly the Dickens) to do Search for Star Personals and then Search for Star (Maybe with PA)
 
Penguinbowler said:
We can, we have Tom or Marco chip away each turn to see the updating things Toffee and us do (He gets out updates when we get his), then on the turn we decide to do it we have the entire Marcnificent Few + Whoever is the guy on Intrigue (Possibly the Dickens) to do Search for Star Personals and then Search for Star (Maybe with PA)
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Right. But assuming that doesn't simply cause us to tie because Toffee had the same idea; and assuming that Toffee won't succeed on the action a turn before we possibly could because his higher Intrigue meant he had a CoS higher than ours:

How is it in our benefit to do even a single Search for Star action before this final sprint to the finish that you propose, rather than having the Marcnificent Few training their assess off so we either have a chance (however remote) of beating Toffee completely to the objective without him knowing what happened; or failing that, to be ready for the fight if we tie with Toffee?

And actually, what happens if we succeed before Toffee? Is he going to know it was us who succeeded, the same way that the DC for the action is globally shared? Because if he's gonna know who succeeded, or even if not and all he learns is that someone succeeded, shouldn't we instead be preparing for the fight when he comes for Star under our care?

He's not gonna just give up if we find her first, and I'm assuming he will find out she's with us sooner rather than later. Unless once someone succeeds on finding Star the DC resets to 400 or something.
 
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Lab_Accident said:
Right. But assuming that doesn't simply cause us to tie because Toffee had the same idea; and assuming that Toffee won't succeed on the action a turn before we possibly could because his higher Intrigue meant he had a CoS higher than ours:

How is it in our benefit to do even a single Search for Star action before this final sprint to the finish that you propose, rather than having the Marcnificent Few training their assess off so we either have a chance (however remote) of beating Toffee completely to the objective without him knowing what happened; or failing that, to be ready for the fight if we tie with Toffee?

And actually, what happens if we succeed before Toffee? Is he going to know it was us who succeeded, the same way that the DC for the action is globally shared? Because if he's gonna know who succeeded, or even if not and all he learns is that someone succeeded, shouldn't we instead be preparing for the fight when he comes for Star under our care?

He's not gonna just give up if we find her first, and I'm assuming he will find out she's with us sooner rather than later. Unless once someone succeeds on finding Star the DC resets to 400 or something.
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Well yeah, but TMK we need to actually be doing actions to lower the DC to see how much Toffee is lowering it. Marco should be training with Macbeth early on and Janna and Lizzy doing other things (getting a Focus, maybe research insect control as well), but Tom could honestly just use 2 of his 3 uses just searching for star, maybe checking up with Celena again (it's not like he has any other purpose)

I'm not saying rush it, but I am saying we should be doing a slow burn for it just to keep up with toffee. If Toffee beats us to it, we will hopefully have black ops by then to try and intercept (Since outside of Celena, all the stuff to lower the DC are Personals). Mirage also will keep us Veto positive until she thinks we have a strong enough lead, then she will either switch to pass or abstain, letting us know when we should go all out.
 
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Lab_Accident said:
How is it in our benefit to do even a single Search for Star action before this final sprint to the finish that you propose, rather than having the Marcnificent Few training their assess off so we either have a chance (however remote) of beating Toffee completely to the objective without him knowing what happened; or failing that, to be ready for the fight if we tie with Toffee?
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Well, we should probably do it at least once so we have an idea of how many PAs will be needed to reduce the DC to something we can accomplish. We don't want to have Marco, Tom, Janna, and Lizzy all Search for Star on the same turn we hire Dickens to find her, only to discover that the DC is still out of reach.
 
Penguinbowler said:
Well yeah, but TMK we need to actually be doing actions to lower the DC to see how much Toffee is lowering it.
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Do we?

Penguinbowler said:
If Toffee beats us to it, we will hopefully have black ops by then to try and intercept (Since outside of Celena, all the stuff to lower the DC are Personals).
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And then what? Let me rephrase my question(s): Do we believe that we are currently ready to take Toffee on an all-out open war? And if we do not believe that, why would we act to anticipate that fight, rather than, say, throwing fake leads his way to buy us time to put preparations in place, like infiltrate his company so we can sabotage him in the turn we are ready to hunt for Star, or actually have protections in place against a multiversal invasion? We can't actually keep Toffee and his dimensional Scissors out if he decides he really wants to get in and find Star.
 
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Lab_Accident said:
Do we?


And then what? Let me rephrase my question(s): Do we believe that we are currently ready to take Toffee on an all-out open war? And if we do not believe that, why would we act to anticipate that fight, rather than, say, throwing fake leads his way to buy us time to put preparations in place, like infiltrate his company so we can sabotage him in the turn we are ready to hunt for Star, or actually have protections in place against a multiversal invasion? We can't actually keep Toffee and his dimensional Scissors out if he decides he really wants to get in and find Star.
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Your right, i can't find a source about the Global Action DC thing, no idea where i got that from, still, having Tom poke it at least once to see how much it goes down is important for when we are ready to hunt for her proper.

And No, I absolutely do not believe we can take the full might of toffee right now, but we have time to prepare. And we should, get the Black Ops, Build the ODI, form some Allies, get the Marcnificent Few up and ready for a conflict. This is like, 3 or 4 turns minimum very possibly longer. I also doubt Toffee will immediately attack himself, since he knows that if he does, the rest of the Planet has time to prepare, and he needs the resources to fight Phobos.

Like, we shouldn't just abandon Star Butterfly, this would cause massive loyalty issues, will mean we lose our main lead against Toffee, who we know knows about Humanity being the propagators of the Mewmans. We don't need to rush, but we should slowly whittle it down depending on how fast Tom shows it goes down. We also likely will need to do a personal anyway to find a lead to get Mirage to change her mind.
 
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Lab_Accident said:
Right. But assuming that doesn't simply cause us to tie because Toffee had the same idea; and assuming that Toffee won't succeed on the action a turn before we possibly could because his higher Intrigue meant he had a CoS higher than ours:

How is it in our benefit to do even a single Search for Star action before this final sprint to the finish that you propose, rather than having the Marcnificent Few training their assess off so we either have a chance (however remote) of beating Toffee completely to the objective without him knowing what happened; or failing that, to be ready for the fight if we tie with Toffee?

And actually, what happens if we succeed before Toffee? Is he going to know it was us who succeeded, the same way that the DC for the action is globally shared? Because if he's gonna know who succeeded, or even if not and all he learns is that someone succeeded, shouldn't we instead be preparing for the fight when he comes for Star under our care?

He's not gonna just give up if we find her first, and I'm assuming he will find out she's with us sooner rather than later. Unless once someone succeeds on finding Star the DC resets to 400 or something.
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Well you could definitely just leave it I suppose, if you don't want the Star plotline to progress for a long, long time.

Janna might be a little... upset though.

You did promise.
 
I don't like the global DC mechanic. I think our actions should only lower the DC for Toffee if a reasonable consequence of the action is giving Toffee a lead, likewise if Toffee does his own investigation we don't know about it unless we have a means of knowing about it.

Of course if Star stumbles into DEI headquarters then Toffee might know immediately if he has surveillance of us setup. If Star stumbles into Seth supplies co we probably won't know untill Toffee starts his military invasion.
 
[] Plan: Star Hunt Part One
-[] National Actions:

--[] [Martial] Rent out your PMC (Khan) [CoS 100%]

--[] [Diplomacy] Recruit Cruella De Vil (Max) [CoS ???]
--[] [Diplomacy] Collaborate with Olympia (Nobody) [CoS 100%]

--[] [Stewardship] Implement Large Herbivore Exhibits (Roddy) [CoS 64%]
--[] [Stewardship] Buy out a rival corporation: Hopper Food Group (Moseby) [CoS 86%]
--[] [Stewardship] Rebuild Sinatron (Monogram) [CoS 85%]

--[] [Intrigue] Root out high-level moles (Mezmerella) [CoS 58%]
--[] [Intrigue] Interrogate Michael Yagoobian (Tobe) [CoS 81%]

--[] [Learning] Study weird object (Jumba) [CoS 64%]
--[] [Learning] Decode Odd Transmissions (Technor) [CoS 73%]

--[] [Occult] Basic Magic Theory (Janna) [CoS 86%]
--[] [Occult] Search for Agent Unknown Gomez [CoS 72%]

-[] Personal Actions:
--[] Doof:
---[] Accept Bellwether's Invitation
---[] Do some introspection about Norm
---[] Chat with the Bossman (Janus)
---[] Automatic Potion Brewing
--[] Norm (End your obsession with platypodes)
--[] Dennis (Train with Maui Mallard)
--[] Wasabi (Organize your Workstation)
--[] Alan (Transfer files off of DoofOS)
--[] Juniper (Dance Practice)
--[] Kitsune (Spread Chaos)
--[] Marco (Train with Macbeth)
--[] Tom (Search for Star)
--[] Lizzie (Search for Star)


Jan/Feb 2018 - Star Hunt Part Two
Martial: Rent out PMC (Khan)
Diplo: Recruit a unit? (Unknown what type exactly)
Stewardship
-Study Diecast Robotics (Roddy + Olympia Collab?)
-Retreat (Moseby)
-Sponsor SPLIT/SECOND (Monogram)
Learning
-ODI
-Carnivore (Jumba)
Occult
-Recruit a mage (Kitsune)
-Repair Avatar (Gomez)
Inator: Activate
Personals
-Doof: Intrigue, CJ, Ludivine, Janus
-Marco (Train with Macbeth)
-Tom (Search for Star)
-Lizzie (Search for Star)
-Janna (Search for Star)


March/April 2018 - Star Hunt Part Three
Martial: Black ops (Technor, Gomez, Juniper, maybe or maybe not a 4th)
Steward
-Implement Carnivore Exhibit (Roddy)
Intrigue
-Dickens (Hunt for Star)
Learning
-Cure diseases
Occult: Mewberty Spread
Personals
-Doof: Intrigue, Coyote, Malf, Stewardship
-Tom (Search for Star)
-Marco (Search for Star)
-Lizzie (Search for Star)
-Janna (Search for Star)


Here is a foundation for a step by step three turn plan to get Star. If something is missing (for example only one learning action on the January turn) then consider it "To Be Determined". Of course it's a work in progress, and we don't know exactly how quickly the DC will drop to the point we think Dickens + all the MF searching for Star at the same time would be appropriate, but I figure we could start with this and see how fast the DC drops this turn to assess.

Marco has only 89 more progress to go to finish his training so we could perhaps squeeze it in 2 more turns.
 
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