I am very much still against this, for plenty of reasons I have already stated. I'd rather do Wile then Lizzy and save Lizzy for either a future Heroball or keep her as a strong Flex Quest choice.
-
Going forward, links to content from Twitter (now X) will no longer be embedded. Pre-existing links should not be affected.
DoofQuest- a Disney Villains Victorious CK2-Style Quest
- Thread starter Made in Heaven
- Start date
- Crossover
Lab_Accident
A 2D 1D4
- Location
- Your dreams
Lizzie is not a stronger Flex Quest choice than Wiley is. Wiley is actually perfectly statted to be a Quest leader, and he has an upgrade in the works in the form of Tech E.
From a purely story perspective I'd prefer Lizzy to be her own unit too.
I'd rather keep Lizzy in the MF sphere myself. I like her dynamic there and she provides a learning edge that none of the other members really have.
For a recap of all the reasons I feel just putting Lizzy in it, especially at this stage, is absurd...
Storywise, I feel tearing Lizzy away from her Friend group for people she barely knows is gonna bite us in the ass. Hard. We were told character Synergy matters a lot here, and Lizzy ain't exactly the most Social girl. She likely would be peeved she was taken from her friends to do black ops stuff.
Another issue I have is the fact that we are planning a bit to far in advance, which while fine, is leading us to make some rather odd decisions. We seemed to have come to the conclusion 3/4 of the team have to be Technor, Juniper, and Mez, yet debates on the 4th seem omnipresent. We're gonna be increasing Capacity real soon and might get either new heroes that completely change how we build the team or potential recruits. Saying we should be putting Lizzy in at this point is really kind of absurd, especially if we decide we want them to be an action monkey which focuses on martial, a quest focused heroball, or some sort of flex choice.
Like, we probably should be considering more then just a Technor lead team of misfits. Wile and Khan both could serve just as well in terms of Black Ops leadership, and we likely would build completely differently around them.
In general I mostly feel people are very much focusing on "Who can Buff Technor" and not how the Black ops team could work as a whole.
Lizzy is stronger in terms of being the only actual viable High Learning Character other then Technor to go on quest as a supporting role. She has a 30 in learning to Wile's 21, and of the rest of our Learning Heroes proper, she is both the only one who can fight and doesn't mind it if things go south. Wasabi and Jumba both have high martial, but Wasabi hates conflict and Jumba wants to stay in the Lab. The marcnificent Few Buff is also nice, but not as important as the large learning stat. Tech E might help mitigate that, but he also will almost certainly Boost Coyaote's Martial, and if the goal is total stat increases (Especially Stewardship) Wile has Higher then Lizzy in 3 Areas.
Storywise, I feel tearing Lizzy away from her Friend group for people she barely knows is gonna bite us in the ass. Hard. We were told character Synergy matters a lot here, and Lizzy ain't exactly the most Social girl. She likely would be peeved she was taken from her friends to do black ops stuff.
Another issue I have is the fact that we are planning a bit to far in advance, which while fine, is leading us to make some rather odd decisions. We seemed to have come to the conclusion 3/4 of the team have to be Technor, Juniper, and Mez, yet debates on the 4th seem omnipresent. We're gonna be increasing Capacity real soon and might get either new heroes that completely change how we build the team or potential recruits. Saying we should be putting Lizzy in at this point is really kind of absurd, especially if we decide we want them to be an action monkey which focuses on martial, a quest focused heroball, or some sort of flex choice.
Like, we probably should be considering more then just a Technor lead team of misfits. Wile and Khan both could serve just as well in terms of Black Ops leadership, and we likely would build completely differently around them.
In general I mostly feel people are very much focusing on "Who can Buff Technor" and not how the Black ops team could work as a whole.
Lab_Accident
A 2D 1D4
- Location
- Your dreams
Everything else I'll leave alone, because as you've said having the same discussion over and over now won't really help much, but this statement I'll have to comment on:
We're using most of our actual villainous capes in this Heroball, with a high priority towards Martial skill, because that's both the primary purpose of the Heroball and what we need at the moment to tackle the high-DC martial actions. The criteria are not "who can buff Technor", it's "who synergizes best with a team of villainous capes expected to carry out Black Ops?" And out of all our current HUs and our rolodex, Lizzie is one of the strongest possible picks.
Last edited:
Yeah, that part I can understand, I don't think it's worth tossing Lizzy in to try and finish the set though, and would like to see how a Wile or Khan team could function before we play our hand on the Supervillain one. A Large part of it is the fact were gonna got 3 turns minimum if were going Technor Mecha to make it, so bringing in discusion on another theme for it I feel is important.
I don't think we've really had much discussion on a possible Wile/Khan Black Ops team, but I also wasn't here until like, last week so if we had I missed it.
Lab_Accident
A 2D 1D4
- Location
- Your dreams
Oh, that's because as soon as we unlock the second Martial action Khan gets the councilor seat by default, and Wiley is usually more valuable as a Quest Leader (particularly nemesis-focused quests) than as a Heroball component, due to his having decent stats across the board.
We could have replaced Wiley with Technor as the Heroball leader, but Willey is both not a proper supervillain, and then we'd lose the synergy bonus from Technor and Juniper being friends. Either way, doubling up on Leader-type characters in the same Heroball just reduces the utility of one of those.
Last edited:
Yeah I can see that, but I feel we probably would completely revamp the Heroball if Wile was the head from Supervillain themes to something else. I guess my biggest issue with the Technor Ball being default is it feels like a lot of people want to rush it, despite the fact Technor's Robot Body is a 3 Turn Minimum, possibly over year long endeavor (Depending if its a Gauge Action or a Immediate Compeltion per limb thing), and it causes issues as a result do to said desire to rush out a Technor Style Heroball. I do not like the idea of spending personals to rush Technor's mech, especially before we learn how the Mech even works.
Lab_Accident
A 2D 1D4
- Location
- Your dreams
It's not so much a choice of "theme" as a reflection of what the Black Ops Heroball is supposed to be: a group of deniable assets willing to commit crimes and get into super-powered fights for morally objectionable reasons. If any other theme fits these criteria, we could see.
Last edited:
BlueWerewolf25
The Dreamer
- Location
- Wouldn't You Like To Know?
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
I firmly agree that Lizzy should not be in ANY heroball, as it would ruin her current narrative and supporting role within her friend group.
- Location
- Two hours away
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[ ] Research with the Imagination Institute
-[ ] Search for Living Toys (Lizzy)
Find sentient toys to get Lizzy's social skills above "weird girl's weird friend".
-[ ] Search for Living Toys (Lizzy)
Find sentient toys to get Lizzy's social skills above "weird girl's weird friend".
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm in favor of putting Lizzy in Black Ops personally, she's a perfect fit, and it's not like these are strangers to her - Technor was her therapist, he broke her out of her feud and got her on the right track again, and she did a quest with Mezmerella which is at least something. Coyote's the one without any ties.
As for Dingo, he's not just 'heroic', he's hyper-fixated on law and order (or to be precise, Matrix is). Plenty of blue card characters like Vladimir Keitawa could be effective Black Ops members if we kept our wrath focused on scumbags that deserved it (which, thankfully, most of our enemies are) but Dingo's not going to be doing any extra-judicial vandalism or sabotage any time soon.
As for Dingo, he's not just 'heroic', he's hyper-fixated on law and order (or to be precise, Matrix is). Plenty of blue card characters like Vladimir Keitawa could be effective Black Ops members if we kept our wrath focused on scumbags that deserved it (which, thankfully, most of our enemies are) but Dingo's not going to be doing any extra-judicial vandalism or sabotage any time soon.
Last edited:
mangawriter77
Otaku^9000 (In my own opinion)
- Location
- You'll neeever guess
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
This. This is my thought process when it comes to Lizzy. If she's going to be in a hero ball, I would want it to be in one with the Marcnificent Few, if we even do that. I'm still on the fence about Technor being in the Black Ops, honestly, because I don't want to lose his personals
If some people want Lizzy in Black Ops and some in Marcnificent Few heroball, how about mixing the two?
For example Mezmerella, Lizzy , Kitsune and Marco as Black Ops team, that would search for Star, and deal with Toffee. And when we find Star we can roll it into bigger heroball with the rest of their team.
For example Mezmerella, Lizzy , Kitsune and Marco as Black Ops team, that would search for Star, and deal with Toffee. And when we find Star we can roll it into bigger heroball with the rest of their team.
TMK A large part of this is I think people want to put Janna, Tom, Marco and Star into a Occult/Martial Heroball.
Also, Stewardship, which is also a weak stat for them.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Eh, Tom has 14, just one less than Lizzy, and Marco has 19, which is 4 more.
Yeah, but Marco is frequently not usable, and, when he is, he would be most effective as team leader through his well-rounded stats, so Lizzy backing him up is useful. That said, fair point on Tom.
A mercenary, a part-timer and someone we cannot even confirm the continued existence of. Not the most reliable of foundations.
- Location
- USA
Didn't we do the math on that and come to the conclusion Khan is better as a elite hero unit than a councilor, even with two actions? His martial is so large that losing half of it by being a councilor is actually more of a loss than most other units can bring to the action.
Technically, if we get another character with martial in the mid to high thirties (Either Lizzy or the Black Ops Hero ball) it becomes more effeciant to have Khan on Council. Norm already has 37 Martial, and Lizzy meets Khans martial when you add half of his to hers, the main issue is that Khan getting half of Wile's (67) right now is better then Lizzy or Norm getting half of Khans (55 for Lizzy, 64 for Norm)
Actually mathamatically it needs to be 40 base martial
Last edited:
Yeah, this.
For those who don't remember, Matrix is Dingo's powerful sentient nanite armor.
It is also a von Neumann swarm that already tried to eat the world to turn Earth into a featureless perfect sphere, before being talked into exploring the human concepts of law and order. While I've been interested in the past about the possibilities of bringing them in, Matrix is just about the worst conceivable match for DEI's corporate culture.
- Location
- USA
We can always go for the bh6 people and make a heroball out of them.
Probably too heroic I guess.
Probably too heroic I guess.