The thing is that the only thing that made LOVEMUFFIN worth anything was that they were a free floating action and we got the most mileage out of them from stewardship, not learning. We don't need another learning hero, we probably have one of the top five think tanks in the US, I think a martial hero that doesn't cost money like Marco or an intrigue hero to help cover for Russ' sabbatical to the Twilight Zone would be a must better investment.
That's... fair. I just saw that Learning was LOVEMUFFIN's highest stat and tried to make my choices based on that. Plus, it was another excuse to try and force the Go Go debate (not that anyone really needs one)
 
If we're seriously cutting them out that opens up a new spot right? Maybe see if the ex wife has any more psychiatrist friends we could hire to split the workload with technor?
 
Man. Lovemuffin may come with their extra action thing, and its surely been helpful no denying that, but their learning is 14.

14.

Isnt Max's 13? A collective of mad scientist are only slightly smarter than a cartoon dog that never got to finish college? At this point, between their recent actions (spurred by us or not) and the continuous rising DC of actions that we have more specialized people for, i dont think they're really worth keeping.
 
I'm... conflicted.

I really want to keep Lovemuffin. I want them to constantly take higher difficulty learning stuff that isn't really a big priority for us. Like zero point tech or insect control. Good stuff that we just can't get to. They will probably fail a bunch with some bare failures lowering dcs and the occasional dramatic success.

The issue is their high crit fail threshold. Crit fails are very bad as we see this turn. And they aren't happy with more moderate dcs with a lower chance of failure.

I'd like to do the stuff that helps them but the dice just aren't having it. They dramatically failed the doof, Janus, and Technor personals. All that's left is jumba, Ludivine, and the restructure national action.

I really don't want to lose the free national action. It's been hugely useful for us and we've knocked out like a dozen things we wouldn't have gotten done.

Plus it was a poorly chosen action for them. I'm not trying to blame anyone. I didn't push back on it at all. I'll take as much blame as anyone since I thought it would at least make them happy and didn't give it another thought. So I do feel like this is our fault in a way and they think they did fine. So arresting them feels like a betrayal. I desperately wish we could do write ins but this is basically the final choice for them.

Now... why we can't keep them.

Critical failures are very bad. I wish the personals that could have helped them had worked, but they didn't. They aren't happy doing achievable things. They keep losing loyalty.

If we had had ANY success at helping them at all I would be fighting much harder on this. But we haven't and if we risk ticking off our population, the government, and our good aligned heros, plus potentially losing income we need if we are going to start building lairs and keep hiring the dickenses, I can't justify keeping them, even with the feeling of betrayal.

If we were halfway through fixing them I'd fight for them tooth and nail but we are just constantly stuck at zero progress.

On a more positive note.

A member of his family, Olivia Dickens, is now available to use as a free hero unit once per year! She does not grant an extra action and does not have loyalty, but also does not take up a unit slot. The Dickens may offer more rewards if you continue using them!

This is fantastic! We need more money to keep hiring them. Split second, buying the remaining two businesses, quests. Let's do it.

Especially since we are down our best intrigue hero at the moment.
 
If we had had ANY success at helping them at all I would be fighting much harder on this. But we haven't and if we risk ticking off our population, the government, and our good aligned heros, plus potentially losing income we need if we are going to start building lairs and keep hiring the dickenses, I can't justify keeping them, even with the feeling of betrayal.
Yeah, my biggest problem with LMF is that we've tried a Bunch of stuff to try to make LMF even slightly better. This is the first thing that worked. THIS. IS THE ONE THAT WORKED. We don't have the resources or the action economy to make that work. Extra action is good but there are too many maluses.
 
At least we will have room for recruiting more hero units. I think we will need to consider hiring Momokase. Maybe after GoGo, maybe before. Then with Dennis and Tobe we can found Food Clan - ninja based heroball with focus on culinary martial arts.
 
Do of shouldn't give up on Love muffin, they are too mad and eccentric to comprehend their actions and they genuinely thought that Doof wanted them to create Mad science,.

Remember without them Genghis Khan would never become the powerhouse he is, so lets not abandon Doof's past aquiantancrs over a miss communication.

Doof should just admit his fault and how he misscomicated his understandings to Love muffin which cause them to do mad science in a destructive manner, instead of a constructive one.

Throwing them to the wolves is not a direction I want Doors character to be going.
 
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Do of shouldn't give up on Love muffin, they are too mad and eccentric to comprehend their actions and they genuinely thought that Doof wanted them to create Mad science,.

Remember without them Genghis Khan would never become the powerhouse he is, so lets not abandon Doof's past aquiantancrs over a miss communication.

Doof should just admit his fault and how he misscomicated his understandings to Love muffin which cause them to do mad science in a destructive manner, instead of a constructive one.
And they're just supposed to accept that because Doof said so? That'll never work! Even with the +15 bonus, their loyalty is still in the high negatives! They're not gonna listen to us! They don't like us!

We told them to do mad science. They immediately exploited that and started causing havoc without a care. LOVEMUFFIN is a loose cannon. We cannot keep them. It's not worth it
 
Gogo and fredzilla. If we're freeing up space let's make the heroball already.
I have some doubts about starting with heroic heroball. First, option called black ops team and anything with Hego is not that. Then we primary need intrigue unit, while heroball with Wasabi and GoGo is martial/learning one. Finally we don't have in-universe reasons for putting Wasabi on it and we don't know how or why Hero 6 disbanded. There should be reasons for why they are not working with each other, which means that there is good chance that we would not gain functional unit from putting them together without large amount of preliminary work. I am not against working on it, but it seems to me like a long term project.
 
We still want gogo and fredzilla. So let's hire them before someone else gets them. Then do whatever to make the heroball work.
 
We still want gogo and fredzilla. So let's hire them before someone else gets them. Then do whatever to make the heroball work.
I don't think we have to worry about fredzilla getting hired by any of the other kings any time soon. It's not like any of the others would want a mostly incompetent janitor. He isn't really noticable unless you meet him in person
 
"Mr. Monogram, I never thought I'd say this, but I want you to put a stop to this!"

Pretty sure Doof would explicitly call him "Francis" by now.

But yeah, since I am a bit short on time, let´s just say that I am vehemently AGAINST letting that one slide and will be in favor of axing the idiots once and for all.

More extensive rant to follow soon enough.
 
[X] Let LOVEMUFFIN go

It's our fault we didn't worded it right..... But hey! The general chaos eased the appearance of the dragon quite well!
Let's keep them and let them do mad science every 2 or 3 turn.... Outside our city.

Edit: didn't Selena said we should get Fred? Kinda surprised we didn't nab him already...
Also wasn't he in our rolodex?
 
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Let's keep them and let them do mad science every 2 or 3 turn.... Outside our city.
On what planet is that a good idea? All we'll be doing is pissing off the government more by letting a bunch of crazy scientists run around and do whatever the hell they want! It's not gonna look good for our public opinion either. Doof needs to take a step forward, not backwards. LOVEMUFFIN needs to go
 
Lovemuffin's a lost cause. They're too incompetent to actually do their jobs and they're too arrogant to have the desire to improve. I say we give L.O.V.E.M.U.F.F.I.N the boot and have OWCA take their place.
 
Just checked to be sure and yes, fredzilla is in our rolodex, so we could hire him.....
Who knows, he MIGHT even remember Agent Unknown!

...far shot, yes, but I like Russ and if I need to chose, Russ over the muffins
 
Well that was an interlude. Lets go trough it step by step.

The Commodore has taken notice of the patronage you've given his organization! A member of his family, Olivia Dickens, is now available to use as a free hero unit once per year! She does not grant an extra action and does not have loyalty, but also does not take up a unit slot. The Dickens may offer more rewards if you continue using them!

Well that is really neat, a once a year intrigue hero and a better in with the Dickens than just trowing stupid amounts of money at them.
Depending on their Intrigue stat we probably will even use them next turn (Our second currently available Intrigue hero (that wants to do spy work) is Lizzie with 18 Intrigue)

Jumba has amused himself by creating a massive biological beast modeled on the Long of China! The dragon has taken up roost in Castle Doofhawk, seems to like the city and, knowing Jumba, probably has some sort of horrific biological warfare techniques up its metaphorical sleeves. Not only that, the man… alien seems brimming with other new ideas. The results of Jumba's Experiment! roll are now weighted towards the positive. The beasts aren't viable for mass production due to the sheer bespoke work that goes into their genes, so you'll have to put your plans on creating a dragon army on hold.

At least Jumba had fun. This kind of things is what I want Doof to think when he thinks Mad Science, even if it can lead to chaos it advances science in the way.
We also got a neat dragon out of it.
For Jumba Experiment! Pa, I wanted him to do the colab next turn (bring our best foot forwards) and sublights drives the turn after but after that I would be 100% on him doing some "Experimenting" of his own.

Public opinion has decreased sharply! Government opinion has decreased! You had to pay reparations for all of the property damage caused by LOVEMUFFIN and OWCA, costing you 3 income!

And now for the main mess.
- Lovemuffin forgot one of the basics rules. Don't shit were you eat. This was also chaos for chaos sake, not how we work any longer, we have changed Lovemuffin hasn't
- They want to continue doing stuff like this and they are both not good enough for it and its not what we want. If the cost of keeping them is that I say they can go to jail

Some would say that firing Lovemuffin might lead other kings to use them against us. I will say that is much better than to keep this damaging us for the fear of someone else using it against us, and damaging our relation with Monogram and OWCA for no good reason seems foolish to me

So for me the course is clear:
[ ] Attempt to arrest LOVEMUFFIN
 
[] Attempt to arrest LOVEMUFFIN
-[] "Mr. Monogram, I never thought I'd say this, but I want you to put a stop to this!"
@ScottishMongol can I use your quote here? It will make the arresting LOVEMUFFIN vote look more interesting.
 
all for not sending them to the Norwegian mission to see if they freeze somewhere, I will vote to keep them and send them to live in Judge Doom's territory and perform Crazy Science against him, and if I don't mind turning this into an open war, we almost lost Russ for he deserves to suffer LOVERMURFFIN

[X] Let LOVEMUFFIN go

Besides, chaos is always fun, And surely we can win back Francis' loyalty
 
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all for not sending them to the Norwegian mission to see if they freeze somewhere, I will vote to keep them and send them to live in Judge Doom's territory and perform Crazy Science against him, and if I don't mind turning this into an open war, we almost lost Russ for he deserves to suffer LOVERMURFFIN

[X] Let LOVEMUFFIN go
Moratorium isn't over yet. Your vote is invalid.
 
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