Although, now that I think on it... evil does tend to be simplistic and boring when one sees the shape of it.

** Cowards at heart, fearing the Other more than they fear death. Pathetic.

Nice to see someone else with this view, evil tends to be the easiest course of action, or at least easier than trying to figure out and doing the right thing, and that ease tends to go hand in hand with simplicity and boredom. Someone can have the most fascinating and complicated reason to do the wrong thing, but in the end what it ultimately boils down to is simple and boring.

I find the reasons someone tries to do good to be much more compelling, especially if it's someone who once took the easy way and did wrong.

Also spot on summary of the Huntsclan's flaws, they're little more than cowards lashing out at what they refuse to understand.
 
To be fair, I have really simple foundations for 'good':

Suffering badddddd.
Death baddddddd.

(Also, people who are not me exist).
---
Seen through that lense, all my actions(/words) are genuinely consistent, and predictable in a way that one might find boring - it's complexity emerging from those two (three) assertions meeting an external world that one might find interesting if one were to write a story with a character who held such a perspective.
 
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You know what, I've had this idea for awhile so I'll just do this.

The Self-Actualizer-Inator
I finally got around to reading the full psychological report on the Demona woman and came to a shocking realization... One needs to be fully aware of themselves if they wish to be a more complete person- I mean a more Evil person! I refuse to be in the same league as her, and so I created this! The Self-Actualizer... Inator, names can be a bit hard you know? With this I can closer to self actualization than ever before! Soon all will fear my Evil capabilities! Because self actualization will definitely make me more Evil... right?
- Roll twice time on next action Doofenshmirtz takes that will help him achieve self actualization and take the best roll.

The Self-Delusion-Inator
Now I realized something with the incident with Demona, a deluded opponent is a predictable opponent. Now with this, the Self-Delusion-Inator, my enemies will be as self deluded as they come! As long as I don't press the wrong button, now... which one was for firing again?
- Roll twice on next action Doofenshmirtz takes that will help him achieve self actualization and take the worst roll.
 
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Huh.

I dunno, maybe it's the last eight years of my life, but I've developed what I'm just decided to call "that person's a bigot" heuristics.

They are not compelling to me. This individual's courage, determination and willpower do not resonate, they repulse. Their strength of conviction looks to me as deep channels of bigoted hate and what you refer to virtue* does nothing to make them.... anything more than what they are in my eyes. Evil, and in the everyday boring way that we see all the time.

Although, now that I think on it... evil does tend to be simplistic and boring when one sees the shape of it. But hey, if you find the character compelling then... yay? I suppose his formulation induces a tired mix of loathing and boredom in me - I see the displayed** shape of it all the fucking time. [edit: also we should delete twitter]

* I'm guessing you use that in a manner akin to the ancient Greek idea of 'hero'
** Cowards at heart, fearing the Other more than they fear death. Pathetic.
No, I was directly citing a TV Tropes page name that describes the story beat of showcasing your villain having positive traits as a story-telling device: Villainous Valour.

Though your analysis of the Trope was pretty good. Apologies if I did not give context.

Edit: also, the specific use of "virtues" was referring to the related trope Evil Virtues.
I like that you think I was doing some intellectual reference to the greek moral philosophy of virtue ethics, but really I'm just a dirty troper.
 
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so our Disney quest where we play as a literal cartoon villain has moved from debating religious perspectives to debating the nature of good and evil, huh
 
Huh.

I dunno, maybe it's the last eight years of my life, but I've developed what I'm just decided to call "that person's a bigot" heuristics.

They are not compelling to me. This individual's courage, determination and willpower do not resonate, they repulse. Their strength of conviction looks to me as deep channels of bigoted hate and what you refer to virtue* does nothing to make them.... anything more than what they are in my eyes. Evil, and in the everyday boring way that we see all the time.

Although, now that I think on it... evil does tend to be simplistic and boring when one sees the shape of it. But hey, if you find the character compelling then... yay? I suppose his formulation induces a tired mix of loathing and boredom in me - I see the displayed** shape of it all the fucking time. [edit: also we should delete twitter]

* I'm guessing you use that in a manner akin to the ancient Greek idea of 'hero'
** Cowards at heart, fearing the Other more than they fear death. Pathetic.
I understand why you feel that way... But personally, I feel that the mentality that you describe tends to do a lot to dull the tapestry of human experience and history.

The inability to do anything but loathe our demons does not make us much stronger or better at fighting them, and it impoverishes us in subtle ways, I think.
 
so our Disney quest where we play as a literal cartoon villain has moved from debating religious perspectives to debating the nature of good and evil, huh

Well it is an interesting question. I mean in the world of Disney Villains Victorious, without his nemesis, can we really call Doof a villain? I mean he's highly egotistical with an authoritarian bent and a sometimes petty jerkish demeanour, but Doof is the one of the few who doesn't hide his actions behind a facade (beside everyone assuming that he's a screwball because he acts like a cartoon villain).

There's no underling agenda or grand master plan, Doof's simply wants recognition for his genius and to be in the spotlight on the stage of the world (and probably a crowd cheering his name wouldn't hurt).
 
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speaking of apocalypse class things...

I wonder how much of a kick Bill is getting watching this... if he can see that far in someway
 
Well it is an interesting question. I mean in the world of Disney Villains Victorious, without his nemesis, can we really call Doof a villain? I mean he's highly egotistical with an authoritarian bent and a sometimes petty jerkish demeanour, but Doof is the one of the few who doesn't hide his actions behind a facade (beside everyone assuming that he's a screwball because he acts like a cartoon villain).
Yes. His ultimate goal is still conquest and domination even if he uses more heroic means to accomplish it. He is an anti-villain and not an anti-hero (good goals with ruthless/evil means).
 
How hard/easy is it going to be to acquire Nightstone after this?

I imagine Coldstone can set himself up as a shadow CEO if given the chance, but a lot of plans are going to go sideways if the Huntsclan learn about Dominque.
 
Well it is an interesting question. I mean in the world of Disney Villains Victorious, without his nemesis, can we really call Doof a villain? I mean he's highly egotistical with an authoritarian bent and a sometimes petty jerkish demeanour, but Doof is the one of the few who doesn't hide his actions behind a facade (beside everyone assuming that he's a screwball because he acts like a cartoon villain).

There's no underling agenda or grand master plan, Doof's simply wants recognition for his genius and to be in the spotlight on the stage of the world (and probably a crowd cheering his name wouldn't hurt).
Yes. His ultimate goal is still conquest and domination even if he uses more heroic means to accomplish it. He is an anti-villain and not an anti-hero (good goals with ruthless/evil means).

To me, given how we've played Doof and how MiH has written him, Doof comes off as a hero who's in denial about how much of a hero he is.



To celebrate the break of dawn in Twelvth Night, Kitsune has finally gotten a new icon.

Huh, I always imagined Kitsune having pure white hair/fur to compliment her whole illusionist spirit gimmick.

Also, just literally thought of this, but given her POV this chapter I think she is going in the same direction Doof is: a person in denial of her own inner goodness.
 
The line between good and evil cuts through the heart of every person. Ambition and determination are features of both Shonen Protagonists and particularly driven villains.

Christian tradition holds that every human was made by God as a child of God and as such carries within them positive qualities. Not long after things started, they took a turn for the worse. It leaves people something of a Jackson Pollack of good qualities and poor ones.

What we do with it is up to us.
 
There are a few useful abilities in the understanding of literature and history, that I would like to speak up for in cases like this.

1) The ability to observe banal, rotten, stinking malice in people one would otherwise like, and recognize the contemptibility of their sewage-pond souls.

2) The ability to observe sudden, remarkable, genuinely impressive human moments in people like a crystal spire, and think "gee, that is a pretty crystal spire"

3) Importantly, the ability to look at a sewage pond and go "yuck, that is a sewage pond" and simultaneously think "gee, that is a pretty crystal spire," without losing the ability to remember the existence of the sewage or the spire.

So many people would have you think that because the crystal spire is there, the sewage pond doesn't matter. This is very convenient for them, since they are usually lost to sewage.

But overcorrecting and saying that because the sewage pond is there, the crystal spire doesn't matter, is... it serves a practical purpose of being angrily resolute to never let ourselves be tricked again, to never ever ever ever tolerate an evil that we could have not tolerated.

But i don't think that's the only human goal, and I think being able to see crystal spires, appreciate them, and then go back to hauling sewage-souled people to the waste treatment plant where they belong, spires and all... I think that's good enough.

Doof is in denial about how much of a hero he is but he still isn't a hero. To be a hero he just has to get over his insecurity/megalomania problem.
I dunno. I think that in the right situation, neither insecurity nor megalomania is enough to undermine the more basic principle that heroes are as heroes do.
 
Today on Doofquest: We parkour from applauding trickster spirits to debating religion to digging into the depth of morality itself!
 
Huh.

I dunno, maybe it's the last eight years of my life, but I've developed what I've just decided to call "that person's a bigot" heuristics.

They are not compelling to me. This individual's courage, determination and willpower do not resonate, they repulse. Their strength of conviction looks to me as deep channels of bigoted hate and what you refer to virtue* does nothing to make them.... anything more than what they are in my eyes. Evil, and in the everyday boring way that we see all the time.

Although, now that I think on it... evil does tend to be simplistic and boring when one sees the shape of it. But hey, if you find the character compelling then... yay? I suppose his formulation induces a tired mix of loathing and boredom in me - I see the displayed** shape of it all the fucking time. [edit: also we should delete twitter]

* I'm guessing you use that in a manner akin to the ancient Greek idea of 'hero'
** Cowards at heart, fearing the Other more than they fear death. Pathetic.

to Play devils advocate here there are legitimate reasons for a anti-magical creature force. Consider just how much power they have in the fact that they can go unnoticed by most of humanity for hundreds of years at this point. And also consider just how close one came in the past update to Wiping out all of humanity.things like vampires are also explicitly designed to be predators of humans.

there is a certain logic there even if there is also a undue amount of bigotry.

and here he displayed valor and fighting a foe that had him out gunned and out numbered as well as the remarkable willpower to resist something that made everyone else in the warehouse bend knee.That is impressive.

it's just a shame that he huntsclan take it too far and target non threats as well.
 
and here he displayed valor and fighting a foe that had him out gunned and out numbered as well as the remarkable willpower to resist something that made everyone else in the warehouse bend knee.That is impressive.
I could say the same of Demona, but when she clings to her genocidal delusions to the point of self-destruction we just laugh about what a failure she is.
 
to Play devils advocate here there are legitimate reasons for a anti-magical creature force. Consider just how much power they have in the fact that they can go unnoticed by most of humanity for hundreds of years at this point. And also consider just how close one came in the past update to Wiping out all of humanity.things like vampires are also explicitly designed to be predators of humans.

there is a certain logic there even if there is also a undue amount of bigotry.

and here he displayed valor and fighting a foe that had him out gunned and out numbered as well as the remarkable willpower to resist something that made everyone else in the warehouse bend knee.That is impressive.

it's just a shame that he huntsclan take it too far and target non threats as well.
have fun with your advocacy then. personally i think the devil is doing quite well without help, no matter what amount of bigotry you think is due.

not like I'm talking about mindsets/worldviews or anything /s

I could say the same of Demona, but when she clings to her genocidal delusions to the point of self-destruction we just laugh about what a failure she is.
Which raises a question: Why do the Huntsmen get a "they're impressive" rather than a mocking "let them fight" response?
 
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