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Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

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readerdreamer said:
Your concerning thirst for crimes against humanity aside, you have missed that the entire point of the post was not on whether Bastard Son would do any of that - because he would if he could - and more on how by the time he even begins to scratch the more advanced principles of Alchemy, it's game over for him already.
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Ok, let's say Joe figures out that Bastard Son has a dedicated team working to advance their understanding of alchemy. Joe is associating himself more with the Elite, so while I don't think Uppercrust is going to start reporting every vague bit of info he has on all his colleagues to Joe tomorrow it isn't unreasonable to assume he'll discover what going on as he works more with Uppercrust.

So what if his efforts are destroyed? This knowledge is being passed around. There's no way in hell Victor was like, "I must contact the dangerous psychopath Bastard Son and only him to help figure out how this phenomenon works." We don't even know if it was a direct line between Bastard Son and Victor that started this, or if people Victor contacted went on to contact others, who contacted others… purposeful contact isn't even necessary. Notes can be stolen, researchers can defect, thinkers can suck up all sorts of info with nobody being the wiser- and on that note, thinkers are 100% going to accelerate the timeframe anyone needs to get alchemy in a workable state.

What's Joe gonna do if he finds out alchemical secrets have proliferated across the country? Or even to other continents? He flipped off Survey's privacy restrictions for the S9, but will he allow her to do a mass intrusion on the data of who knows how many groups to get a full scope of how far alchemy has traveled? Will he prioritize shutting down all those groups over preparing for the vast world shaking problems he already has in view? Will he even be comfortable shutting down all the groups when it turns out that the knowledge has escaped the grasp of villains, and now mundane academic institutions, legitimate governments, and the PRT/Protectorate are all running their own experiments? So many interesting possibilities…

Bastard Son is in no way necessary as a specific person for my bloodlust to be satisfied. I just assume that, from a narrative standpoint, his introduction here means he's being set up to actually do something for the plot, you know. If the only thing this chapter is setting up for in the future is two paragraphs of Bastard Son's cell being blasted to bits after they accomplish nothing but some baby alchemy experiments, that would be lame as hell. And if anyone's going to fail on account of their own hubris rather than an immediate Joe interrupt, it's totally going to be Victor fucking up human transmutation.

Again, maybe I'm hoping for too much, but this is what I'm hoping for.
 
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The enhance the act of Creation of Turin-Ist is close to what The One Ring did, but it enhanced Domination. However TI got an additional major power, the thinker/Simurg defence, so I'd rate it as a level above TOR. Its still recognizably something that works on Middle Earth Metaphysics (tm).

Dropped into Middle Earth it would quickly make history unrecognizable: Imagine Fëanor getting it while in Aman: We'd get Silmaril Chandeliers :)
 
LordRoustabout said:
Surrey
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Re-reading the chapter, I notice one typo no one has apparently mentioned before. I believe this should be "Survey".

I admit, I find the chapters that are reactions to Apeiron (directly, or tangentially), most enjoyable in this story. Still, I'm not complaining about how you write your story. Your characterization is rather amazing at times, everyone is a real person in one way or another.
 
Knaka said:
Answered in chapter
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It just says that it's secret lore, so I'm going to assume that it's s non canon term in the Tolkein mythos and that it's something the author created for the purposes of the story.

Edit: Never mind, I'm being dumb. The name translates to Secret lore, I thought the name was from secret lore.
 
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TitanFrost said:
What's Joe gonna do if he finds out alchemical secrets have proliferated across the country? Or even to other continents? He flipped off Survey's privacy restrictions for the S9, but will he allow her to do a mass intrusion on the data of who knows how many groups to get a full scope of how far alchemy has traveled? Will he prioritize shutting down all those groups over preparing for the vast world shaking problems he already has in view? Will he even be comfortable shutting down all the groups when it turns out that the knowledge has escaped the grasp of villains, and now mundane academic institutions, legitimate governments, and the PRT/Protectorate are all running their own experiments? So many interesting possibilities…

Bastard Son is in no way necessary as a specific person for my bloodlust to be satisfied. I just assume that, from a narrative standpoint, his introduction here means he's being set up to actually do something for the plot, you know. If the only thing this chapter is setting up for in the future is two paragraphs of Bastard Son's cell being blasted to bits after they accomplish nothing but some baby alchemy experiments, that would be lame as hell. And if anyone's going to fail on account of their own hubris rather than an immediate Joe interrupt, it's totally going to be Victor fucking up human transmutation.

Again, maybe I'm hoping for too much, but this is what I'm hoping for.
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The thing is, remember the scale that Joe will eventually work towards to. Will immediately work towards to, in the grand scheme of things in-universe. By the time Joe really kicks off the escalation - after he deals with Brockton Bay, which would be over in a matter of weeks in-universe - he's immediately going ahead in doing everything he can to improve Earth Bet. Hence, the inevitable uplift. With the power of the Celestial Forge literally changing the parallel Earths, do you think that at any point a bunch of alchemists would ever manage to be a big threat, when Joe would be working on a multidimensional scale? Do you think that a bunch of villainous Thinkers and Tinkers would manage to build up to anything once Survey and the Matrix have been unleashed to their full potential? Hardly.

So would it be "lame as hell" as you put it? Of course it would be. The Lord hath spoken that once the S9 arrives, all that is waiting for them is a one-sided curbstomp. That's the scale Joe is working at now, and by extension now that Uppercrust is serving under his direction, that is also the inevitable outcome of what would happen to Bastard Son. If you were hoping for something terrible to happen at this point, you are certainly hoping too much, because it's certainly an impossibility that he would be able to build up anything of importance by the time the crisis point for villainous organizations all over Earth Bet arrives.
 
I'll have more to say later when I get home and don't have to type with one finger on the phone. But I just had to say, it's a missed opportunity that Uppercrust's requisition process isn't elaborate enough in a specific way to count as a Mana-generating prayer.
 
LordRoustabout said:
Still, if Uppercrust was going to get caught up at every impossibility he would never get through this.
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LordRoustabout said:
"Ah, yes." He said, working to keep his composure. Working directly with Apeiron, effectively seeing things from the inside, made it clear just how badly every estimation of the man's capacities were under-calling the situation.
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The great thing about this interlude is that we finally get an adult, reasoned response from a positively aligned party with enough background that he can truly understand how freakingly scary and broken his abilities are, even when on his good side.

LordRoustabout said:
"Fuck that bitch!"
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This is the moment Joe gained the true alignment and fealty of Uppie, Apeiron is fighting for Hope.
LordRoustabout said:
fact, thanks to some additional unspecified effect, apparently any material could be worked like iron using the provided equipment
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Wait. He can imbue his special ability/power into objects????!!!!
I wonder what will happen when Uppie realises it's not only materials that can be worked as iron ...

LordRoustabout said:
Now he found himself involuntarily appreciating it in a far more basic manner as his body decided to communicate the extent of its recovery through a cold start of systems that had been largely dormant since his teenage years.
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On one hand this is hilarious, on the other hand while he will be using his willpower and experience, the fact that he now has a very healthy appetite will improve his enjoyment of life. A great deal. He was right that the devotion Joe's gifts inspire, would make anyone a "slave", the same thing TT feared, except Uppie is not afraid of asking for help

LordRoustabout said:
"Hamburger."
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LordRoustabout said:
Specifically, an evaluation citing him as obstinate, dismissive of others, and difficult to work with. Those specific sections were brightly highlighted.
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Working on meme now.

Also, we got memes from LR using template from Phineas and Ferb, we got not 1, but 2 omakes featuring characters from that series and now we got an interlude from a Tinker that builds City wide contraptions with wide range implications?
 
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Guyman said:
Besides water, the only liquid that he has any significant supply of is Immulsion - which will remain under indefinite containment.
Also the magma and lava from his volcano, but still, does he have any other liquids to use this with? Or any other liquids in V1 of the celestial forge for him to even gain ever?
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Bacta , prometheium , medi-gel, liquified dust,

insertname099 said:
A mobile workstation imbued with secret of steel, a gamer inventory, simmy protection, instant analysis and bluepringing of tinkertech and power boosting? Damn, not bad for something made in seconds.

Also, what godly use could there be for all of that water? ...transmutation fuel?
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Make water crystals, Sea prism Stone, metalic hydrogen, infinite oxygen, house every fish know to man, provide water to everyone on earth, create multiple types of Ice as building materials including Ice-7 and make stuff out of it
 
TurboLightning7 said:
Is this a reference to Iron Man 1 when Tony Stark got a Burger King burger to eat when he returned from being kidnapped?
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Less a reference, more a honest expression and desire for normality of someone deprived of it for a long time. Tony was in a cave for months, Uppie was a prisoner of his body his entire life, the desire to experience normality is strong in both cases.
 
readerdreamer said:
That's got to be early installment weirdness then, because that breaks the Alchemy Law of Providence, where you can't change the innate makeup of a material you are transmuting. Turning rocks into gold is outright changing elements and would require at least a Philosopher's Stone if we're talking of alchemy from later on in the series. So yeah, I think it's closer to him just plating the rocks with gold because at least it doesn't create a plot hole in the process.
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Nope. Lots of scenes in the manga have alchemists change objects in ways that have to be changing the makeup of the stuff being made. The most notable being The Silver Alchemist, who, in his fight with Scar, turned a lot of things into some form of worked metal, beyond just metal.

Also there wouldn't be a need to ban the creation of gold if it was actually impossible as debasement of currencies is typically a crime. So it's a plot hole either way
 
Mesaphrom said:
There is also that the event is turning more and more into the perfect venue for Parian to second Trigger
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This. Parian's biggest goal was always independence - and while Celestial Friends plus Uppercrusty have practically zero desire to actually diminish her sovereignty, she's running upon zero-sum thought process at this time: that since there's someone whom is also within her sphere of influence, that she has to gain the upper-hand so that this other won't infringe upon her freedom.

If she finds out that Apeiron is in fact Joe, it will be the final straw: that man whom harassed her, gaining the power to put her back at square one.
readerdreamer said:
(Though I suppose an alchemist with a working knowledge of nuclear physics can probably create a dirty bomb on their own. Just isolate the more fissile isotopes of Uranium and you just need to put 52 kilograms together to make everyone's day that much worse instantly.)
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My thought process is that they can do E=mc2... it's just that macroscopic and molecular alchemy is already hard enough and the difficulty curve is exponential.
For a visual perspective: I think of "toy" alchemy - such as, turning a small amount of an extremely inert and extremely simple substance into specific shapes - as having the volume of a boulder if we were to convert difficulty into volume.
"Chemical Alchemy" - stuff beyond beginner, such as freezing water, has it's difficulty equivalent to the volume of planets.
Meanwhile, "Nuclear alchemy", would simply begin at the equivalent of small stars and maintain an exponential increase of difficulty - blackholes, solar systems, nebulae, galaxies...
readerdreamer said:
Turning rocks into gold is outright changing elements and would require at least a Philosopher's Stone if we're talking of alchemy from later on in the series. So yeah, I think it's closer to him just plating the rocks with gold because at least it doesn't create a plot hole in the process.
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Aha, but while that was a trick, the hypothetical nuclear alchemy could conceivable rearrange sub-atomic particles - turn one gram of iron into one gram of gold, at the cost of literal tonns of protons, neutrons and electrons stripped and added to the initial iron or outright annihilated in order to power the transmutation: as elements heavier than iron do not give energy when fused, but rather, take away energy and convert it into the atomic binding force.
readerdreamer said:
The Lord hath spoken that once the S9 arrives, all that is waiting for them is a one-sided curbstomp.
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Also Jack is a dirty dirty murderhobo that had nothing going for him besides his broadcast ability.
Oh look, with one simple step the ability is near completely nullified.
Contessa can at least run "dummy" paths if she encounters obstacles, but Jack has nothing.
 
MrtrappedInstory said:
How many perks are left in Personal Reality?
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There are 37 clusters many have just one perk others have many I think the largest has 11. Many can also be obtained an infinite number of times. It won't be cleared out any time soon.
Ziggrrauglurr said:
Wait. He can imbue his special ability/power into objects????!!!!
I wonder what will happen when Uppie realises it's not only materials that can be worked as iron ...
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You have a way of working with quirky and strange materials-in your hands and machinery, it assumes the forging and abilities of plain Iron until you begin building with it.
 
insertname099 said:
Also, what godly use could there be for all of that water? ...transmutation fuel?
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Obviously, the best use of it is to make Leviathan feel insecure.


Thurin-Ist has just been born is already getting uppity when someone trash-talks about it/its creator.
Pretty sure in a couple of weeks it'll have copied Uppercrust's Narval-adapted forcefields and started using them as giant independent hands to slap up anyone around into behaving, or else...
In a couple of months? Uppercrust will have to handle his new little spitfire of a daughter that's trying to make everyone follow The Schedule :lol:
 
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