Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

[readerdreamer]

Simply put, while Piggot's reactions and decisions are understandable in the sense where you could understand where she is coming from, she is not reasonable in that none of her reasons for her actions can justify what she had done to handle Apeiron.

Remember, this all started when she used an item created by Apeiron being pretty to justify slapping him with a Master rating and then using that Master rating to completely blacklist him from any Protectorate-affiliated group in Brockton Bay. Sure, Coil fanned the flames by disappearing the aide that made the remark, but she still had the final say and she immediately went for the nuclear option to force him in a weaker bargaining position from the get go.

Then as problems compounded and all the old issues that she had swept under the rug after keeping the city in a stalemate so long had shown their ugly heads, instead of facing the consequences of her choices, she instead battered down and continued to complicate things by adding more and more emergency protocols that she should've not been abusing in the first place.

That's why she would be such a laughingstock if things haven't snowballed so bad that there is no way to make things funny anymore. She hit bedrock a long time ago, and instead of giving up, she grabbed a drill and kept digging her own grave even deeper.

 

[ExploerTM]

Remember, this all started when she used an item created by Apeiron being pretty to justify slapping him with a Master rating and then using that Master rating to completely blacklist him from any Protectorate-affiliated group in Brockton Bay. Sure, Coil fanned the flames by disappearing the aide that made the remark, but she still had the final say and she immediately went for the nuclear option to force him in a weaker bargaining position from the get go.

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Entirely reasonable thing to do in setting though. However exaggerated in fanon, Master-Stranger protocol is a thing for a good reason. Even if her intent was to strongarm Apeiron, nobody can really claim that this was unreasonable ESPECIALLY since A HUMAN JUST GONE MISSING.

I kinda agree with the rest although how much of bad decisions Piggot made were influenced by March specifically to cripple local PRT on every level is one hell of a rabbit hole (no pun intended). As of now, digging is her only hope really, however she really just hopes to dig a tunnel to the China so to speak. I mean crazier shit happened so we'll see how it goes. I mainly just want Becca and the rest of PRT also face the music because they about to turn Piggot into scapegoat and completely ignore the fact that Bay was all but abandoned; I bet if they had bare minimum of capes on their own they wouldnt even have received any transfers at all.

 

[Mesaphrom]

Opened the timeline to confirm but she isn't the longest serving Ward Missy triggered and joined in April 2009 giving her 2 years at most by the time canon starts since that's the 8th of April 2011. However, Clockblocker is noted to trigger and join earlier that year, Aegis and Triumph are also the year before making them definitely more experienced than her. Kid Win and Stalker joining is the year after. Gallant is unknown but Vicky pinged off him when she triggered between April and June of 2009 so he already had powers by then.

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Her problem is less being the one with the longest active time and more that she sees herself as a veteran and have the literal scars to prove it, but everyone still treats her like an inmature child (which she is). Weld actually gave her good advice that instead of complaining about it, she could talk with the other Wards and see what problems she could resolve, making people see her as a reliable person doing so.

Too bad she tried to start with Sophia.

Pretty sure that's when she joined not necessarily exactly when she got powers. It would be kind of awful to enter Brockton on your first mission though.

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Was listening to the audiobook for the Behemoth part just last month, and IIRC she coments that she haven't seen actual combat up until that point.

So, yeah, BB was her first time away from home.

so how would Echidna Vista clones react seeing Apeiron? would they try to team up with him to destroy the world? mock the real Vista that Apeiron is better hero then she would ever be? point out all the evil PRT has done?

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I mean, the clones aren't really evil (they are controled by Echidna) so much as with zero inhibitions, so they just blurt out whatever complain or bad thoughts they have, no matter how much they actually mean it.

So Vista is very likely to swear up a storm about Apeiron, about how she thinks everyone is stupid for believing on him, probably tell the OG that she is just using Apeiron as a scapegoat for being forced to stop being a metaphorical junkie as escapism over her situation at home, hell, she may even complain for simpler things like no being shipped more often because she is the kid of the team.

I don't think it was established in canon exactly what Sophia had done

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I thought it was 'dropped someone holding him over the edge of a building' and 'pinned someone up to a wall with crossbow bolts' one of which led to manslaughter?

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It was the second that lead to her being arrested IIRC (where Emma's dad defended her and lead to her joining the Wards), but she was known to have done the first.

Madcap and Shadow Stalker were captured, unmasked and offered a plea deal.

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Whoa, whoa, whoa, Madcap was offered nothing, he was going to be sent straight to the Birdcage. He was the one who voluntered to not end up there right after being captured. And then gave himself the name Assault to mess with Battery.

Sure, Coil fanned the flames by disappearing the aide that made the remark, but she still had the final say and she immediately went for the nuclear option to force him in a weaker bargaining position from the get go.

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Technically that sas Accord-kouhai wanting some of that limited edition Apeiron-senpai merch.

...Though I may be remembering wrong and Coil kidnapped/killed the techie? It's been WAY too long since that happened.

 

[Brandark]

Entirely reasonable thing to do in setting though. However exaggerated in fanon, Master-Stranger protocol is a thing for a good reason. Even if her intent was to strongarm Apeiron, nobody can really claim that this was unreasonable ESPECIALLY since A HUMAN JUST GONE MISSING.

I kinda agree with the rest although how much of bad decisions Piggot made were influenced by March specifically to cripple local PRT on every level is one hell of a rabbit hole (no pun intended). As of now, digging is her only hope really, however she really just hopes to dig a tunnel to the China so to speak. I mean crazier shit happened so we'll see how it goes. I mainly just want Becca and the rest of PRT also face the music because they about to turn Piggot into scapegoat and completely ignore the fact that Bay was all but abandoned; I bet if they had bare minimum of capes on their own they wouldnt even have received any transfers at all.

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March's power makes her unreadable to thinkers, but I don't recall that doing anything to regular people's decision making ability. You could say she was acting on bad data, but so were every other PRT department.

 

[readerdreamer]

Entirely reasonable thing to do in setting though. However exaggerated in fanon, Master-Stranger protocol is a thing for a good reason. Even if her intent was to strongarm Apeiron, nobody can really claim that this was unreasonable ESPECIALLY since A HUMAN JUST GONE MISSING.

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The thing is, I'm pretty sure the aide disappeared after she made the call, not before. Coil took him out after the flower had been labeled as a Master item, not before, and essentially what it had just done was make things past the point of no return for the ruining of Apeiron's relationships with the local PRT.

I imagine that Piggot originally intended to use the Master accusation to dangle over Apeiron's head as a bargaining chip, intending to remove it once she had control over him. But then Coil stole the flower under Accord's request - which certainly won't help Accord at all when Joe finds the flower in his ownership and connects the dots, I assume -and disappeared Sebastian Slight, removing the option of pinning the mistake on Slight from her.

(Honestly there's a repeated undertone in so many interludes of the PRT that Piggot wishes someone else would be willing to take a fall for her so she could justify rolling back on her emergency measures while the other person gets a relative slap on the wrist compared to what would happen to Piggot if she admits culpability. Hannah even brings it up directly in her latest Interlude - if Battery had been willing to break protocol with Survey, Piggot would've used it to undo at least some of the mess she has done while Battery got minimal consequences. But nobody actually wants to be that fall guy so Piggot continues to drown.)

 

[ExploerTM]

March's power makes her unreadable to thinkers, but I don't recall that doing anything to regular people's decision making ability. You could say she was acting on bad data, but so were every other PRT department.

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Thats exactly what I am saying. March was basically predicting everyone so its not unreasonable to assume she got Piggot downloaded and lined up everything to ensure that she got pushed towards the shittiest decisions she could make. Crippling PRT long term just makes sense given that timing thinker probably plays long cons

The thing is, I'm pretty sure the aide disappeared after she made the call, not before. Coil took him out after the flower had been labeled as a Master item, not before, and essentially what it had just done was make things past the point of no return for the ruining of Apeiron's relationships with the local PRT.

I imagine that Piggot originally intended to use the Master accusation to dangle over Apeiron's head as a bargaining chip, intending to remove it once she had control over him. But then Coil stole the flower under Accord's request - which certainly won't help Accord at all when Joe finds the flower in his ownership and connects the dots, I assume -and disappeared Sebastian Slight, removing the option of pinning the mistake on Slight from her.

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Cant recall timeline of the events really too - might need to start another reread soon-ish. But regardless, what I am saying is that its standard PRT paranoia coupled together with her wanting to strongarm new Parahuman. She can freely claim that she was following PRT protocols and nobody could really rebuke her. They would of course, if only to shift blame from PRT in general more on ENE branch and try to appease to Apeiron, but behind closed doors and in hush whispers nobody would claim that would've done something that much different. Some directors probably would've done it without strongarming part but only some.

 

[famfrit]

Thats exactly what I am saying. March was basically predicting everyone so its not unreasonable to assume she got Piggot downloaded and lined up everything to ensure that she got pushed towards the shittiest decisions she could make. Crippling PRT long term just makes sense given that timing thinker probably plays long cons

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That's not really fair tho cause March needs data to pull off her timing stuff and she only got involved after Fletchette got transferred so wasn't involved with the decisions made so soon after Joe healed Amy.

 

[ExploerTM]

That's not really fair tho cause March needs data to pull off her timing stuff and she only got involved after Fletchette got transferred so wasn't involved with the decisions made so soon after Joe healed Amy.

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I meant all the ABB decisions clusterfuck mainly, before it was just default PRT style bad decisions

 

[Brandark]

I meant all the ABB decisions clusterfuck mainly, before it was just default PRT style bad decisions

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This is giving March a bit too much credit. if her influence was that big it would be rivalling the Simurgh. No, it was just Piggot looking for a scapegoat from the very beginning. She avoided being taken seriously, anything else is on Piggot.

 

[ExploerTM]

This is giving March a bit too much credit. if her influence was that big it would be rivalling the Simurgh. No, it was just Piggot looking for a scapegoat from the very beginning. She avoided being taken seriously, anything else is on Piggot.

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Well Joe's shard started screaming "WORSE THAN ENDBRINGERS ALARM ALARM JOOOOOOOE! DO SOMETHING!" so I dunno, I might be a bit too paranoid about her. But given that she had basically Path To Victory 0.5 which was enough to keep up with Apeiron (at the stage where he absolutely would've steamrolled literally any other organisation bar may be PRT itself) I am a bit on cautious side.

 

[Brandark]

Well Joe's shard started screaming "WORSE THAN ENDBRINGERS ALARM ALARM JOOOOOOOE! DO SOMETHING!" so I dunno, I might be a bit too paranoid about her. But given that she had basically Path To Victory 0.5 which was enough to keep up with Apeiron (at the stage where he absolutely would've steamrolled literally any other organisation bar may be PRT itself) I am a bit on cautious side.

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The worse than endbringer thing was referring to her trying to mess with shards. Which is a fair assessment, imo.

 

[rollobeast]

Thats exactly what I am saying. March was basically predicting everyone so its not unreasonable to assume she got Piggot downloaded and lined up everything to ensure that she got pushed towards the shittiest decisions she could make. Crippling PRT long term just makes sense given that timing thinker probably plays long cons


Cant recall timeline of the events really too - might need to start another reread soon-ish. But regardless, what I am saying is that its standard PRT paranoia coupled together with her wanting to strongarm new Parahuman. She can freely claim that she was following PRT protocols and nobody could really rebuke her. They would of course, if only to shift blame from PRT in general more on ENE branch and try to appease to Apeiron, but behind closed doors and in hush whispers nobody would claim that would've done something that much different. Some directors probably would've done it without strongarming part but only some.

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If I'm understanding it correctly, this is half the reason she still has support amongst the other directors, the other half being she has supported other directors before, and now they are returning the favor.

 

[Slentoru]

Do you think Joe has synaesthesia? Like, I'm wiling to bet that Unnatural Skill: Music gave Joe severe and several cases of sound-based synaesthesia, with him basically perceiving tune and tone in any and all things that his other senses can perceive. Wonder if there are other perks that could have such effect on his senses. Wonder just how unusual Joe's even most usual senses became. Wonder if Joe does have synaesthesia, would he even notice with all other alien sense he has.

 

[Mesaphrom]

If I'm understanding it correctly, this is half the reason she still has support amongst the other directors, the other half being she has supported other directors before, and now they are returning the favor.

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A third that, a third the other, a third directors who supported her in the past will look really bad if the person they put a lot of support behind turns out to be an incompetent trigger happy lunatic as she is being painted out to be by the head office.

 

[famfrit]

A third that, a third the other, a third directors who supported her in the past will look really bad if the person they put a lot of support behind turns out to be an incompetent trigger happy lunatic as she is being painted out to be by the head office.

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Don't forget that it's also cause she's waiting the maximum legal time she can before passing the Taylor is Kephri, her trigger, the prt's screwing up with it and the meme erasure being a suspected threat info up the chain. All that is going to drastically reduce her support while motivating others to punish her to appease Apeiron which is why she's holding off on it as long as she can.

 

[Catullus]

I was just wondering if LordRoustAbout was accepting suggested additions to the forge to make it even more broken than it already is?

 

[Chronocidal]

Remember, this all started when she used an item created by Apeiron being pretty to justify slapping him with a Master rating and then using that Master rating to completely blacklist him from any Protectorate-affiliated group in Brockton Bay. Sure, Coil fanned the flames by disappearing the aide that made the remark, but she still had the final say and she immediately went for the nuclear option to force him in a weaker bargaining position from the get go.

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Close. This started after a researcher who got distracted by the item created by Apeiron being pretty, tried to cover for skiving off work to look at the pretty, by claiming that they thought it might have "mesmeric effects".

Then Piggot decided to believe the expert whose job was to examine tinker-technology for possible side-effects when they said that the item from an unknown tinker had put them under a Master effect.

And then, between flagging the item as "possible hazard", and getting everything in place for a second group of researchers to safely confirm or deny the accusations, Coil had the item stolen (to sell to Accord), and also had the researcher disposed of where no one would ever find the body. This being discovered when the second group were ready to do their testing, and the item was nowhere to be found.

Which, from the PRT's perspective, looks almost indistinguishable from the accusations being proven 100% correct.

She didn't immediately go for the nuclear option: she first went for the "cautious verification" option. Then Coil stepped in, and made it look like "worst case confirmed!" — at which point, "nuclear option" was fairly reasonable. The evidence that he faked-up for the PRT made it seem as though they were dealing with a tinker-equivalent to Heartbreaker or Valefor.

 

[AmberSlime]

I was just wondering if LordRoustAbout was accepting suggested additions to the forge to make it even more broken than it already is?

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That's a no. Lord Roustabout is sticking with Celestial Forge Version 1, and more specifically sticking to Perks that come from media he's watched/played/read. When he does finish new media he does add in the related Perks if that series is represented in the Forge, but otherwise Lord isn't adding in any perks.

 

[Grey Shadow]

And then, between flagging the item as "possible hazard", and getting everything in place for a second group of researchers to safely confirm or deny the accusations, Coil had the item stolen (to sell to Accord), and also had the researcher disposed of where no one would ever find the body. This being discovered when the second group were ready to do their testing, and the item was nowhere to be found.

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I'm surprised that no Thinker has discovered that our researcher has been disposed of and where the body could be. It's not like there isn't any Thinkers looking at BB. I know it's doubtful that Piggot would issue instructions to that effect, as she doesn't really have anyone in the local Protectorate that could do that, but the national office, the Thinktank, and all the other PRT areas are looking at BB hard to find anything about Apeiron and the CF.

 

[Graviator]

When he does finish new media he does add in the related Perks if that series is represented in the Forge, but otherwise Lord isn't adding in any perks.

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Which means that the only way to add perks by recommendation is to make good recommendations for media that happen to be represented in the Forge document.

 

[lrllak]

Close. This started after a researcher who got distracted by the item created by Apeiron being pretty, tried to cover for skiving off work to look at the pretty, by claiming that they thought it might have "mesmeric effects".

Then Piggot decided to believe the expert whose job was to examine tinker-technology for possible side-effects when they said that the item from an unknown tinker had put them under a Master effect.

And then, between flagging the item as "possible hazard", and getting everything in place for a second group of researchers to safely confirm or deny the accusations, Coil had the item stolen (to sell to Accord), and also had the researcher disposed of where no one would ever find the body. This being discovered when the second group were ready to do their testing, and the item was nowhere to be found.

Which, from the PRT's perspective, looks almost indistinguishable from the accusations being proven 100% correct.

She didn't immediately go for the nuclear option: she first went for the "cautious verification" option. Then Coil stepped in, and made it look like "worst case confirmed!" — at which point, "nuclear option" was fairly reasonable. The evidence that he faked-up for the PRT made it seem as though they were dealing with a tinker-equivalent to Heartbreaker or Valefor.

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At the same time, the fact that this happened is more proof of how poorly PRT ENE is run. If they have reason to believe someone may have been under a Master Effect, the logical response would be to get them into MS screening immediately. That's what they did with Amy when a piece of untested Tinkertech flagged her statements as suspicious. Someone self-reporting that they have been mastered should have been taken into custody for evaluation right away, which would have prevented him from being disappeared. Why didn't that happen.

Also, the fact that key evidence can go missing at all is a huge red flag, particularly after it has been deemed a potential vector for a master effect. That thing should have been locked up tighter than Fort Knox, with so much security and verification required for access that the PRT would know who took it 30 seconds after it disappeared.

In short, the fact that Coil was able to successfully fake a "worst case confirmed" just shows that ENE had major problems that should have been addressed long ago. PRT ENE negligence during an investigation does not exonerate Piggot. I would argue that if anything, it makes things worse because it calls into question everything the PRT has been involved in for years, rather than just a series of poor decisions on her part.

 

[Mr.unlucky]

Great job! Did you write the lyrics?

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I wish. i try to use as little words as i can to describe Apeiron and let the ai do the rest. i remember putting down "defeated the fake dragon." and "big brother by choice but not by blood."

unlike Garment's Garment Gloves the tailor of dream by @austeremixingengineer8712 | Suno where i used Lyrics generations and chose what to used and what to leave out.

 

[Brandark]

At the same time, the fact that this happened is more proof of how poorly PRT ENE is run. If they have reason to believe someone may have been under a Master Effect, the logical response would be to get them into MS screening immediately. That's what they did with Amy when a piece of untested Tinkertech flagged her statements as suspicious. Someone self-reporting that they have been mastered should have been taken into custody for evaluation right away, which would have prevented him from being disappeared. Why didn't that happen.

Also, the fact that key evidence can go missing at all is a huge red flag, particularly after it has been deemed a potential vector for a master effect. That thing should have been locked up tighter than Fort Knox, with so much security and verification required for access that the PRT would know who took it 30 seconds after it disappeared.

In short, the fact that Coil was able to successfully fake a "worst case confirmed" just shows that ENE had major problems that should have been addressed long ago. PRT ENE negligence during an investigation does not exonerate Piggot. I would argue that if anything, it makes things worse because it calls into question everything the PRT has been involved in for years, rather than just a series of poor decisions on her part.

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Pretty much.

Coil noted in his interlude that the lab tech was 'notorious' for slacking off, and his lab manager should get half the blame for filing a nonsense report to cover him instead of a reprimand.

Still, the master allegations were dismissed quite a while ago. The main reason all the restrictions in place are because if a PRT director wants to withdraw the excessive policies pushed through under the guise of emergency, they would have to provide justifications. Why it was in place, why they are withdrawing it and so on. Admitting Apeiron was right on a number of matters means she was wrong on them. Plus, the accusations of her being insane and all would get more credence.

 

[Assembler Maniac]

Piggot is not insane. Paranoid with delusions of adequacy maybe, but not insane.

 

[Behemoth.]

But then Garment was like: "You realize I was flirting with you from the start, right?"
And Joe is like "MHM ANYWAYS ABOUT FLECHETTE"

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Ngl I shipped Joe and Garment from the start but then considering Garment was created by Joe and was a pair of gloves I thought it couldn't happen. She didn't seem like the type to be interested in conventional romance. But now that we know otherwise I'm somewhat disappointed.